I thought CT was up to at least 18% in one of the articles he wrote then dropped an absurd amount of fat pretty dman fast. I would call that bulked up. But we arent supposed to use numbers sorryz. Its all relative anywayz
uhh i’m pretty sure CT stays ‘on’ year round.
[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
Oh or stronger lol[/quote]
E’rybody strongers than you sir lolz
[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
uhh i’m pretty sure CT stays ‘on’ year round.[/quote]
Creatine?
[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
Well I think staying lean is fine but it by far is not the fastest way, over bulking is, just look at meganewb it’s just not many people have what t takes to go to that level or even remotely close, the ones that do are more times out of ten bigger then everyone else and that’s not coincidence.
I’m tired of this argument really it has nothing to do with being comfortable it’s just about how much suffering your willing to go through to get an end result. At the same time if someone does this and never even tries to really cut down dramatically and this is not directed at you x but someone who has already poste in this thread, that’s just weakness I mind and is sad. I you want to stay at a low bf percent the rest of your life fine but your en result won’t be bigger and leaner then mine [/quote]
Meganewb is a beast now. I am leaner right now than I was in college…and was leaner than that before the accident. That was after many here claimed I could never lose weight.
I agree with you…no one gets huge by taking the easy way out and no one here was discussing taking it easy. In fact, how the hell does gaining 100lbs of muscle sound easy?
LOL
Either way, overall good post. You would think you wouldn’t have to explain that you work hard though. People can see it.
Here is what I think, in clear points
1)Yes you will gain the maximum muscle mass you can if you do accept the fat gains that come with gaining and dont try to stay lean
2)Yes you will retain almost all that muscle mass if you then diet down to STAGE READY LEANESS LEVELS while using gear
3)No you will not retain almost all that muscle mass if you then diet down to STAGE READY LEANESS LEVELS while staying natty
4)So yes HOORAY for Lee Priest and Dorian Yates and all those NPC superheavyweights
5)Find me some natty top pros that do/did the same stuff as Lee Priest and Dorian and etc etc
6)Guys that are natty and saying they are bigger now cause they did get softer but havent dieted down to near stage ready leaness levels shouldnt comment on this. Yes you will lose muscle mass
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
Well I think staying lean is fine but it by far is not the fastest way, over bulking is, just look at meganewb it’s just not many people have what t takes to go to that level or even remotely close, the ones that do are more times out of ten bigger then everyone else and that’s not coincidence.
I’m tired of this argument really it has nothing to do with being comfortable it’s just about how much suffering your willing to go through to get an end result. At the same time if someone does this and never even tries to really cut down dramatically and this is not directed at you x but someone who has already poste in this thread, that’s just weakness I mind and is sad. I you want to stay at a low bf percent the rest of your life fine but your en result won’t be bigger and leaner then mine [/quote]
Meganewb is a beast now. I am leaner right now than I was in college…and was leaner than that before the accident. That was after many here claimed I could never lose weight.
I agree with you…no one gets huge by taking the easy way out and no one here was discussing taking it easy. In fact, how the hell does gaining 100lbs of muscle sound easy?
LOL
Either way, overall good post. You would think you wouldn’t have to explain that you work hard though. People can see it.[/quote]
I read his log all the time on the other website and he even said how easy cutting is compared to gaining
[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
Well I think staying lean is fine but it by far is not the fastest way, over bulking is, just look at meganewb it’s just not many people have what t takes to go to that level or even remotely close, the ones that do are more times out of ten bigger then everyone else and that’s not coincidence.
I’m tired of this argument really it has nothing to do with being comfortable it’s just about how much suffering your willing to go through to get an end result. At the same time if someone does this and never even tries to really cut down dramatically and this is not directed at you x but someone who has already poste in this thread, that’s just weakness I mind and is sad. I you want to stay at a low bf percent the rest of your life fine but your en result won’t be bigger and leaner then mine [/quote]
Meganewb is a beast now. I am leaner right now than I was in college…and was leaner than that before the accident. That was after many here claimed I could never lose weight.
I agree with you…no one gets huge by taking the easy way out and no one here was discussing taking it easy. In fact, how the hell does gaining 100lbs of muscle sound easy?
LOL
Either way, overall good post. You would think you wouldn’t have to explain that you work hard though. People can see it.[/quote]
I read his log all the time on the other website and he even said how easy cutting is compared to gaining [/quote]
I detect a pattern…
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
Well I think staying lean is fine but it by far is not the fastest way, over bulking is, just look at meganewb it’s just not many people have what t takes to go to that level or even remotely close, the ones that do are more times out of ten bigger then everyone else and that’s not coincidence.
I’m tired of this argument really it has nothing to do with being comfortable it’s just about how much suffering your willing to go through to get an end result. At the same time if someone does this and never even tries to really cut down dramatically and this is not directed at you x but someone who has already poste in this thread, that’s just weakness I mind and is sad. I you want to stay at a low bf percent the rest of your life fine but your en result won’t be bigger and leaner then mine [/quote]
Meganewb is a beast now. I am leaner right now than I was in college…and was leaner than that before the accident. That was after many here claimed I could never lose weight.
I agree with you…no one gets huge by taking the easy way out and no one here was discussing taking it easy. In fact, how the hell does gaining 100lbs of muscle sound easy?
LOL
Either way, overall good post. You would think you wouldn’t have to explain that you work hard though. People can see it.[/quote]
I read his log all the time on the other website and he even said how easy cutting is compared to gaining
So now can we start a disscussion on whether it is easier to become super lean after doing multiple times? So going up heavier then dieting down might become easier aka your body learns how to become lean and you retain more muscle. (obviously that is a much simplified statement) If that woudl be true then even natty’s could push gains in the off season and diet down.
I think there is a pattern here.
The initial OP was about a competitive natural bodybuilder.
It was questioning whether or not it is optimal to stay super lean, which I think we all agree that it is not if you are trying to gain mass.
Then it morphed into discussing for competitive natural bodybuilders what the most effective mode of bulking would be if you were far past the initial beginner stage and were planning on competing.
Stu and myself are both competitive natural bodybuilders. Stu is MUCH more experienced than I am and has spoken with infinitely more natural bodybuilders than I, but I too have interacted with natural pro’s regarding this topic. The consensus always seems that over-bulking or getting significantly heavier and carrying much more fat than necessary for a bodybuilder that plans on competing on a relatively regular basis (1-2 years or so) is not as effective.
Again, I am not advocating ‘keeping your abs’ or staying single-digit lean, but staying within ‘striking range’ of your contest weight. That ‘striking range’ varies for each bodybuilder depending on their size/height too.
Also, if you haven’t competed as a natural and haven’t dieted down to extremely lean levels, please don’t trivialize it.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but don’t apply the logic of someone that doesn’t apply to this topic or the methods of someone who doesn’t have similar goals because that’s not productive for this discussion.
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Creatine?[/quote]
yes
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
So now can we start a disscussion on whether it is easier to become super lean after doing multiple times? So going up heavier then dieting down might become easier aka your body learns how to become lean and you retain more muscle. (obviously that is a much simplified statement) If that woudl be true then even natty’s could push gains in the off season and diet down. [/quote]
I think your base genetics are what determines that. If you have a fast metabolism and know you can lose weight easily, then you likely have less to worry about bulking up heavier. Along with that, the same person would experience an easier time losing body fat if carrying way more muscle than when they started.
Well wht do the natural pros no:p
[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Creatine?[/quote]
yes[/quote]
Figured as much
[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
Well wht do the natural pros no:p[/quote]
Stu knows a hell of a lot about this…and he’s a pro…so…?
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Figured as much[/quote]
r u being srs?
if so, then what’s your excuse mr ‘lvl 4’
lolz.
Interesting that we are finally having the discussion 2020Wellness supposedly so desperately wanted and he is nowhere to be found.
[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Figured as much[/quote]
r u being srs?
if so, then what’s your excuse mr ‘lvl 4’
lolz.[/quote]
Almost offended that you think that i am that big of a moron but it is the interwebz. I ran into this problem earlier in this thread. My sarcastic jokes just dont seem to have the punch they do in real life. Ppl keep thinking i am srs.
I make sarcastic jokes almost continually throughout the day all day every day. Damn internet screws with that
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
So ummm, why doesn’t everybody just stay at the bodyfat levels they are most comfortable with.[/quote]
Amen.[/quote]
Really? someone does not win a contest by being at the most comfortable level of bodyfat. If a 140lber is only comfortable at 6% bf or less, well he prob wont be able to add the necessary amount of mass and never get very far. If guy at 250 is only comfortable at 18%bf and cant pshycologically handle cutting down to sub 10%, he will not get very far.
[/quote]
I feel like it was kind of assumed that we were talking about people who have some clue as to what is expected for onstage condition. If someone doesn’t EVER want to gain or cut, that person is obviously boned. I thought we had contextualized the discussion to focus on people who are at least at the level of legitimately competing, and who thus have a clue about what a bodybuilding contest entails.
[/quote]
I was making a general point. Nothing about bbing is comfortable. You can do what you feel is comfortable, or you can listen to the advice of those that have competed successfully such as stu and ebomb and others. I woulkd bet that the person that does the latter, whether or not it is comfortable, would make better progress.
[/quote]
Dude, none of what any of us have done is “comfortable” and I don’t think that was a point being made. Training six days a week while in school wasn’t “comfortable”. Being in class all day made it impossible to eat chicken breasts and gain. I made adjustments so my hard work paid off.
That is what was said before.
I do agree that you should listen to people who have competed. Listen to the guys in the gym who truly look impressive…and not just the leanest ones. Get info from as many sources as possible. That’s real advice.
Further, if you plan on doing this and succeeding at things completely unrelated to bodybuilding as well, you had better learn how to make it ALL work together.
I see a lot of people giving up because they can’t be “perfect”.[/quote]
Everyone is going to have obstacles they have to overcome. It’s great that you made adjustments due to being in class all day, but this discussion isn’t about you or anyone elses personal issues or obstacles. It’s about the ideal model for a natty bber to follow. Ofcourse it will not be perfect or black and white or whatever.