[quote]Professor X wrote:
Just to say it…no one cares if you stayed super lean but you aren’t extreme at all in the size built…yet some posters here seem to think how lean they are is the main priority as if muscle gains are based on how lean you are.[/quote]
Some judges care.
[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
when hes in this phase you can’t even tell the difference when hes in clothes from his super ripped contest stage because his endocrine and metabolism is so effective the fat just goes on all over in a thin layer and doesn’t add in pockets.
[/quote]
Do you even know what youre talking about?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Further, unless already near your "peak, assuming you need to stay under some certain weight makes no sense. What if you can gain more than the limit you keep placing?
[/quote]
If you aren’t competing it is even more important to stay lean year-round…there is no “offseason” for non-competitive BBers. Of course, permabulkers take this as an excuse to never lean out.
[quote]
Just to say it…no one cares if you stayed super lean but you aren’t extreme at all in the size built…yet some posters here seem to think how lean they are is the main priority as if muscle gains are based on how lean you are.[/quote]
The exact same thing goes for the other extreme. Outside of fellow lifters, nobody cares how much muscle you have if its covered by fat. If you have a lot of muscle but are not lean, than you don’t look like a bodybuilder, you just look “big”. Like a construction worker, or maybe a football player.
Conditioned muscle is what looks impressive.
[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Further, unless already near your "peak, assuming you need to stay under some certain weight makes no sense. What if you can gain more than the limit you keep placing?
[/quote]
If you aren’t competing it is even more important to stay lean year-round…there is no “offseason” for non-competitive BBers. Of course, permabulkers take this as an excuse to never lean out.
[quote]
Just to say it…no one cares if you stayed super lean but you aren’t extreme at all in the size built…yet some posters here seem to think how lean they are is the main priority as if muscle gains are based on how lean you are.[/quote]
The exact same thing goes for the other extreme. Outside of fellow lifters, nobody cares how much muscle you have if its covered by fat. If you have a lot of muscle but are not lean, than you don’t look like a bodybuilder, you just look “big”. Like a construction worker, or maybe a football player.
Conditioned muscle is what looks impressive.[/quote]
Dude, have you ever walked around at 280lbs or more without a gut under 6 feet tall? Claiming people don’t find it impressive unless ripped is small minded and flat out wrong. You should get out more. It comes down to preference and claiming who does and doesn’t look like a bodybuilder based on some numbers is ridiculous.
Outside of fellow lifters, no one gives a shit about you being so muscular that regular clothes no longer fit…so claiming I or anyone else should model the body after what those outside of bodybuilding and serious weight lifting want isn’t what this is about anyway.
What is an ok level of leanness for you may not be to someone else…and once again, the semantics are getting tired. No one here is telling people to get fat. What was said was allow your gains to dictate your approach…SINCE YOUR GENETICS DICTATE WHAT YOU CAN AND CAN NOT GET AWAY WITH.
Why would I worry about staying super lean year round when my goal is to gain as much muscle as humanly possible? While I may avoid overdoing it, if the muscle gains justify it, it would make little sense to throw on the breaks due to leanness and not because muscle gains slowed.
This is not about reaching some journey with a destination right around the corner. Once again…are you huge yet?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Dude, have you ever walked around at 280lbs or more without a gut under 6 feet tall? [/quote]
We can’t all be Rogue Vampire, X. That’s a pipe dream for most of us.
Although I would be down with the 21" gunz that would accompany an addition of 80lbs to my frame lol.
Edited
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Further, unless already near your "peak, assuming you need to stay under some certain weight makes no sense. What if you can gain more than the limit you keep placing?
[/quote]
If you aren’t competing it is even more important to stay lean year-round…there is no “offseason” for non-competitive BBers. Of course, permabulkers take this as an excuse to never lean out.
[quote]
Just to say it…no one cares if you stayed super lean but you aren’t extreme at all in the size built…yet some posters here seem to think how lean they are is the main priority as if muscle gains are based on how lean you are.[/quote]
The exact same thing goes for the other extreme. Outside of fellow lifters, nobody cares how much muscle you have if its covered by fat. If you have a lot of muscle but are not lean, than you don’t look like a bodybuilder, you just look “big”. Like a construction worker, or maybe a football player.
Conditioned muscle is what looks impressive.[/quote]
Dude, have you ever walked around at 280lbs or more without a gut under 6 feet tall? Claiming people don’t find it impressive unless ripped is small minded and flat out wrong. You should get out more. It comes down to preference and claiming who does and doesn’t look like a bodybuilder based on some numbers is ridiculous.
Outside of fellow lifters, no one gives a shit about you being so muscular that regular clothes no longer fit…so claiming I or anyone else should model the body after what those outside of bodybuilding and serious weight lifting want isn’t what this is about anyway.
What is an ok level of leanness for you may not be to someone else…and once again, the semantics are getting tired. No one here is telling people to get fat. What was said was allow your gains to dictate your approach…SINCE YOUR GENETICS DICTATE WHAT YOU CAN AND CAN NOT GET AWAY WITH.
Why would I worry about staying super lean year round when my goal is to gain as much muscle as humanly possible? While I may avoid overdoing it, if the muscle gains justify it, it would make little sense to throw on the breaks due to leanness and not because muscle gains slowed.
This is not about reaching some journey with a destination right around the corner. Once again…are you huge yet?[/quote]
All I’m saying is despite your genetics, I don’t think a natural bodybuilder under 6 feet tall needs to get to 280-300 lb. Show me a 5’10’-5’11’’ bodybuilder that when fully dieted down has really made significant strides due solely to the fact that their offseason was spent at 280-300 as opposed to a more manageable weight.
Like you said, we don’t know and can’t judge how much muscle we are actually gaining…but by that same token, that also doesn’t at all mean that simply by virtue of gaining more weight you are gaining, or more importantly able to retain after a diet, any extra muscle.
If it works for you, then great. I’m just giving my opinion, because ultimately that’s all that these are.
[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:
If it works for you, then great. I’m just giving my opinion, because ultimately that’s all that these are.
[/quote]
Dude, my point is, yes, it did work for me…just like it worked for a shitload of other people. What I am focusing in on are all of the people so concerned with abs alone that gains in muscle take a back seat yet they think they will meet the same goal. It just doesn’t work that way. It takes time, even with supplying the body with everything it needs to make progress like that and the guy “slow gaining” his way there will be less likely to make it.
It seems most of those types just eventually quit trying to get much bigger.
Yes, that is an opinion…but it’s one I get to see in the mirror everyday too.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:
If it works for you, then great. I’m just giving my opinion, because ultimately that’s all that these are.
[/quote]
Dude, my point is, yes, it did work for me…just like it worked for a shitload of other people. What I am focusing in on are all of the people so concerned with abs alone that gains in muscle take a back seat yet they think they will meet the same goal. It just doesn’t work that way. It takes time, even with supplying the body with everything it needs to make progress like that and the guy “slow gaining” his way there will be less likely to make it.
It seems most of those types just eventually quit trying to get much bigger.
Yes, that is an opinion…but it’s one I get to see in the mirror everyday too.[/quote]
I agree with the people too focused on abs won’t make it, totally. But, I think if you’re a serious natural competitor, you will have to become content with slowly gaining regardless of your approach because we can’t put on 10 lb of muscle/year :P.
I fly all over the country meeting new customers. In every case, the conversation turns to asking me about lifting (them broaching the subject, not me). I’m easily 18-20%+ and even in my frumpy size-too-big slacks and company polo shirts (big, not douchebag tight fitting), you can tell I lift.
Could I lose some fat? Sure, why not. But not at the expense of my ultimate goal. I’ve lost weight easily in the past, but gaining is much harder, especially in your 30s+.
My goal: strongest I can get, biggest I can get-- not in any particular order. Seems with one comes the other when the training and food is there. I don’t care to ever step on stage (I will compete PL) and I don’t really care too much if I impress anyone on T-Nation.
Someone telling me I need to stay lean year 'round doesn’t really understand me.
I would like TNation more if proud virgin just stopped posting
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
I fly all over the country meeting new customers. In every case, the conversation turns to asking me about lifting (them broaching the subject, not me). I’m easily 18-20%+ and even in my frumpy size-too-big slacks and company polo shirts (big, not douchebag tight fitting), you can tell I lift.
Could I lose some fat? Sure, why not. But not at the expense of my ultimate goal. I’ve lost weight easily in the past, but gaining is much harder, especially in your 30s+.
My goal: strongest I can get, biggest I can get-- not in any particular order. Seems with one comes the other when the training and food is there. I don’t care to ever step on stage (I will compete PL) and I don’t really care too much if I impress anyone on T-Nation.
Someone telling me I need to stay lean year 'round doesn’t really understand me.[/quote]
…which is why their responses don’t make sense. I know the reaction I got when much heavier…so some guy logging in telling me people don’t find that impressive is just really fucking wrong. The average person is not used to seeing someone that size who is NOT obese. Further, how would they even know exactly how “ripped” you are unless you take your shirt off in public?
I had a goal so I ate and trained for it. I got really big doing it. People could EASILY tell I was a serious weight lifter even at my heaviest and often asked for advice. To think they didn’t is just bullshit nonsense.
My preference is now to stay a little leaner, but I am gaining right now and my body is responding the way it usually does…it takes a shit load of calories…and my work schedule does not allow me to sit down and eat several times a day so i can either choose to make NO progress or eat higher calorie foods and accept some fat gain while keeping it under control this time since my goal is closer at hand.
I also don’t think most of these guys are out of school yet so maybe the real world and the lack of free time has not hit them yet where they even consider it.
I am often at work lately up to 12 hours a day with often only a chance to sit down to eat twice if I push it…along with training twice a day most of the week. The dumbass would be the guy who would simply stop gaining instead of eating the way they needed to in order to see more progress.
[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
I would like TNation more if proud virgin just stopped posting[/quote]
He won’t even answer if he’s huge yet. LOL at people not finding size in itself impressive.
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
I fly all over the country meeting new customers. In every case, the conversation turns to asking me about lifting (them broaching the subject, not me). I’m easily 18-20%+ and even in my frumpy size-too-big slacks and company polo shirts (big, not douchebag tight fitting), you can tell I lift.
Could I lose some fat? Sure, why not. But not at the expense of my ultimate goal. I’ve lost weight easily in the past, but gaining is much harder, especially in your 30s+.
My goal: strongest I can get, biggest I can get-- not in any particular order. Seems with one comes the other when the training and food is there. I don’t care to ever step on stage (I will compete PL) and I don’t really care too much if I impress anyone on T-Nation.
Someone telling me I need to stay lean year 'round doesn’t really understand me.[/quote]
It’s been stated that the OP’s friend has the goal of being a competitive bodybuilder.
The discussion is tailored around that point.
Obviously it doesnt matter how fat somoene gets if they never plan to have to lose the fat.
A competitive powerlifter may literally be the LAST person the advice in this thread is aimed at.
edited
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
I fly all over the country meeting new customers. In every case, the conversation turns to asking me about lifting (them broaching the subject, not me). I’m easily 18-20%+ and even in my frumpy size-too-big slacks and company polo shirts (big, not douchebag tight fitting), you can tell I lift.
Could I lose some fat? Sure, why not. But not at the expense of my ultimate goal. I’ve lost weight easily in the past, but gaining is much harder, especially in your 30s+.
My goal: strongest I can get, biggest I can get-- not in any particular order. Seems with one comes the other when the training and food is there. I don’t care to ever step on stage (I will compete PL) and I don’t really care too much if I impress anyone on T-Nation.
Someone telling me I need to stay lean year 'round doesn’t really understand me.[/quote]
…which is why their responses don’t make sense. [/quote]
THEY DONT MAKE SENSE BECAUSE YOU ARENT A FUCKING BODYBUILDER
How do you fail to understand this?
LOL. It doesn’t matter how fat someone gets AT ALL if they fucking lose the fat for the contest. That was why I made that point in the Lee Priest thread since the fact that he used to bulk heavily was news to so many of you.
Also, Bonez, you don’t know what my plans are (or especially what they were before the accident). You don’t know what shows (if any) I was setting my sites on. You feel some need to proclaim I am not a bodybuilder…while everyone else in my life and at the gym would disagree. No one cares about your opinion of me. Too many people disagree with you.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Also, Bonez, you don’t know what my plans are (or especially what they were before the accident). You don’t know what shows (if any) I was setting my sites on. You feel some need to proclaim I am not a bodybuilder…while everyone else in my life and at the gym would disagree. No one cares about your opinion of me. Too many people disagree with you.[/quote]
When you compete or pay the entry fee for a show you become a bodybuilder. I dont care what some half wits at your gym think.
Youre having a discussion with a kid who’s accomplished more in the sport at the age of 22 or whatever than you ever have. Yet youre still wailing on and on about how there’s only one way to do things.
You have literally NEVER even acknowledged, much less agreed with, a point of view that doesnt completely validate your ‘life’s work’. It’s insecurity plain and simple even though it clearly isn’t about that for every other person posting in threads like these.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
LOL. It doesn’t matter how fat someone gets AT ALL if they fucking lose the fat for the contest. That was why I made that point in the Lee Priest thread since the fact that he used to bulk heavily was news to so many of you.[/quote]
It doesnt?
Then why do you shit on everyone who says they dont feel comfortable getting fat, as if their choice to remain comfortable and confident in their own skin is an invalid approach to being a bodybuilder?
Youre a hypocrite. A dogmatic one at that. You CHOSE to get fat because that’s what made you feel comfortable. Some choose to not get fat because that’s their preference. To say that either is right or wrong or better or worse is absurd.
LOL. So the people at my gym, some who post here are now half wits.
Dude, your an ass. Seriously. You aren’t even that well educated and it shows. Take that shit elsewhere. You keep up like this and it will be handled.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
LOL. It doesn’t matter how fat someone gets AT ALL if they fucking lose the fat for the contest. That was why I made that point in the Lee Priest thread since the fact that he used to bulk heavily was news to so many of you.[/quote]
It doesnt?
Then why do you shit on everyone who says they dont feel comfortable getting fat, as if their choice to remain comfortable and confident in their own skin is an invalid approach to being a bodybuilder?
Youre a hypocrite. A dogmatic one at that. You CHOSE to get fat because that’s what made you feel comfortable. Some choose to not get fat because that’s their preference. To say that either is right or wrong or better or worse is absurd. [/quote]
Just to answer this though, I gained extra body fat because I chose to let that slide in favor of gains, the several hours a day I was spending at school studying and my overall work load. Considering it worked, I apparently made the right choice. You don’t see many professionals doing what I do at anywhere near this level because of the time restraints and workload. To make it work for me in my personal life, I ate the way I did.
I knew I had a time limit. I knew I didn’t plan on bulking up much in my 30’s.
To laugh at shit that worked is just retarded.
I didn’t spend the last decade lifting. I spent the last decade lifting, getting educated, pursuing a military career and starting a business. I ate and trained in a way that allowed me to reach ALL goals.
Anyone who sees that as a fail isn’t worth talking to.