Explaining Year-Round Lean Doesn't Lead to Size

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
How many times have we seen celebrities putting on tons of muscle in a rather short amount of time for a particular role. So many times, its hard to name them all. Just a couple off the top of my head. Russell crowe in gladiator, charlie sheen in his comedy spoof of rambo. This has happened tons more times, where an actor puts on mass, without gaining any fat at all. In fact, they are normally leaner, with the added size.[/quote]

Actually, the lack of pics of actors prior to shooting plus a growing number of actors now stating in interviews that they have to cut down suggests the opposite. Crowe was well overweight going into Gladiator from The Insider. Sheen screwed off to an island to train for Hot Shots: Part Deux. All he did was train- and out of all of the actors who’ve ever had to train for a role, he’s at the top of the “most likely to have used anabolics” list.

[quote]Dissection wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]2020Wellness wrote:

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:
I personally think that you don’t need to be super lean all year round, but I also don’t think that you need to put on excess fat in the offseason as a natural and expect that simply because you added a good deal of weight, some of it must be muscle because you are training hard.

IMO, you feed your body what it needs nutrient-wise, and you don’t need more than that. Too many guys justify eating boatloads of food and getting too soft (40-50 lb over their contest weights) and end up making just as much if not slightly less or marginally more progress than the guy that ate enough nutrients to grow on, but not much more than that.

As a natty, unfortunately, you can’t just constantly add weight and grow more and more.

So I would stay your friend ought to probably fall in between staying cut all year round and carrying too much weight.

Also, tell him to stop comparing himself or judging himself against users…it’s a waste of time.

[/quote]

Thanks for the post. I’m not saying to get fat, I’m simply saying that staying in the single digits and expecting to be gaining mass efficiently is just silly. The bottom line is that if you’re in a surplus of any amount, fat gain will be present. Fat gain is all part of growth, especially for a natural.

Your last comment is great…here’s the problem though. The steroid user claims natural, and it’s ridiculous. The rookie amateur is getting conned, and I don’t want to see it happen.
[/quote]

Im not trying to start an argument here, but, are you saying you can’t gain muscle, without gaining fat? If you’re saying that, that is completely wrong. Not only have I known guys, myself included. We have not only gained muscle without gaining any fat, we have actually lost fat. Granted, you can’t do that with really low bodyfat. But to say, you will gain fat, if you gain muscle is completely wrong. [/quote]

So what happened? Why’d you willingly put the fat back on?
[/quote]

exactly what fat are you referring to. All I see is one huge jacked mofo.

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
How many times have we seen celebrities putting on tons of muscle in a rather short amount of time for a particular role. So many times, its hard to name them all. Just a couple off the top of my head. Russell crowe in gladiator, charlie sheen in his comedy spoof of rambo. This has happened tons more times, where an actor puts on mass, without gaining any fat at all. In fact, they are normally leaner, with the added size.[/quote]

Actually, the lack of pics of actors prior to shooting plus a growing number of actors now stating in interviews that they have to cut down suggests the opposite. Crowe was well overweight going into Gladiator from The Insider. Sheen screwed off to an island to train for Hot Shots: Part Deux. All he did was train- and out of all of the actors who’ve ever had to train for a role, he’s at the top of the “most likely to have used anabolics” list.[/quote]

Whether Russel crow was fat or not before the gladiator role, he gained size and got leaner. Whether charlie went off to some island and trained. so what, lol. He most likely doesn’t train more than any of us do. I have heard it on this site, not really from the articles but from guys on the forums, where they say, natural or not, you can’t gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. Which is the stupidest thing i have ever heard. Of course you can do both. You think these actors get 2 or 3 years go get big, then lose all the fat to be lean. They are given maybe 3 or 4 months. They eat good, train hard, maybe take some anabolics, who knows, but they get bigger and leaner. not bigger and fatter.

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]Dissection wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]2020Wellness wrote:

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:
I personally think that you don’t need to be super lean all year round, but I also don’t think that you need to put on excess fat in the offseason as a natural and expect that simply because you added a good deal of weight, some of it must be muscle because you are training hard.

IMO, you feed your body what it needs nutrient-wise, and you don’t need more than that. Too many guys justify eating boatloads of food and getting too soft (40-50 lb over their contest weights) and end up making just as much if not slightly less or marginally more progress than the guy that ate enough nutrients to grow on, but not much more than that.

As a natty, unfortunately, you can’t just constantly add weight and grow more and more.

So I would stay your friend ought to probably fall in between staying cut all year round and carrying too much weight.

Also, tell him to stop comparing himself or judging himself against users…it’s a waste of time.

[/quote]

Thanks for the post. I’m not saying to get fat, I’m simply saying that staying in the single digits and expecting to be gaining mass efficiently is just silly. The bottom line is that if you’re in a surplus of any amount, fat gain will be present. Fat gain is all part of growth, especially for a natural.

Your last comment is great…here’s the problem though. The steroid user claims natural, and it’s ridiculous. The rookie amateur is getting conned, and I don’t want to see it happen.
[/quote]

Im not trying to start an argument here, but, are you saying you can’t gain muscle, without gaining fat? If you’re saying that, that is completely wrong. Not only have I known guys, myself included. We have not only gained muscle without gaining any fat, we have actually lost fat. Granted, you can’t do that with really low bodyfat. But to say, you will gain fat, if you gain muscle is completely wrong. [/quote]

So what happened? Why’d you willingly put the fat back on?
[/quote]

exactly what fat are you referring to. All I see is one huge jacked mofo. [/quote]

That’s cool.

That’s not what we see…but you knew that already.

Dude…why? This shit is really fun for you?

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
How many times have we seen celebrities putting on tons of muscle in a rather short amount of time for a particular role. So many times, its hard to name them all. Just a couple off the top of my head. Russell crowe in gladiator, charlie sheen in his comedy spoof of rambo. This has happened tons more times, where an actor puts on mass, without gaining any fat at all. In fact, they are normally leaner, with the added size.[/quote]

Actually, the lack of pics of actors prior to shooting plus a growing number of actors now stating in interviews that they have to cut down suggests the opposite. Crowe was well overweight going into Gladiator from The Insider. Sheen screwed off to an island to train for Hot Shots: Part Deux. All he did was train- and out of all of the actors who’ve ever had to train for a role, he’s at the top of the “most likely to have used anabolics” list.[/quote]

Whether Russel crow was fat or not before the gladiator role, he gained size and got leaner. Whether charlie went off to some island and trained. so what, lol. He most likely doesn’t train more than any of us do. I have heard it on this site, not really from the articles but from guys on the forums, where they say, natural or not, you can’t gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. Which is the stupidest thing i have ever heard. Of course you can do both. You think these actors get 2 or 3 years go get big, then lose all the fat to be lean. They are given maybe 3 or 4 months. They eat good, train hard, maybe take some anabolics, who knows, but they get bigger and leaner. not bigger and fatter. [/quote]

None of that prevaricating reinforces your initial comment that actors stay lean during movie prep. The topic has been debated enough in the past to know that you’ve seen at least some of the talk on transformations and are distorting the point to make ripples, but I’ll play:

From the article:

[quote]
"I think it was far less healthy actually putting on the weight.

"I was lifting really heavy weights and just stuffing so much into my mouth.

“My body was under so much pressure I could feel it. I had a doctor say to me ‘You are going nuts. You have to slow down’.”

Batman Begins director Christopher Nolan, best known for his Oscar nominated independent film Memento, starring Australia’s Guy Pearce, had been impressed with Bale’s performances in American Psycho and The Machinist.

The director was not prepared for what he saw when Bale arrived at the London studio ready to play Batman.

“I turned up in England and I was bearded and had long hair and I was walking down the hallway and Chris Nolan was walking towards me and I said ‘Hi Chris’ and he had absolutely no idea who I was,” Bale said.

"When he got close he was like ‘Holy f… You look like Grizzly Adams. What’s going on?’

"Then he said: ‘OK, well you did OK, you got really good like how we asked you to, but maybe … could get you a little leaner now’.

"Chris was nice about it, but there were some others, like some English guys in the crew who I’d worked with before who weren’t so gentle.

“They said ‘Hey Chris, what film are we making here? Fatman?’.” [/quote]

There are also a few snaps out there of Bale between The Machinst and Batman Begins, where he is heavier than we see him in the first Bat-movie. Granted, he’s no Orca, but he evidently slimmed down for the movie. Plus, I don’t think he stopped where he was in the pic going by the article I posted (he’s not quite “Grizzly Adams”).

Most “jacked” actors are really not as big as they appear. A majority are just dieted down to very low bf% and appear huge through lighting and make up. It just like all the “massive” 160lb dudes in 300.

I don’t disagree with Rogue, you can build muscle and reduce fat, you can build muscle without putting on excess fat.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]Dissection wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]2020Wellness wrote:

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:
I personally think that you don’t need to be super lean all year round, but I also don’t think that you need to put on excess fat in the offseason as a natural and expect that simply because you added a good deal of weight, some of it must be muscle because you are training hard.

IMO, you feed your body what it needs nutrient-wise, and you don’t need more than that. Too many guys justify eating boatloads of food and getting too soft (40-50 lb over their contest weights) and end up making just as much if not slightly less or marginally more progress than the guy that ate enough nutrients to grow on, but not much more than that.

As a natty, unfortunately, you can’t just constantly add weight and grow more and more.

So I would stay your friend ought to probably fall in between staying cut all year round and carrying too much weight.

Also, tell him to stop comparing himself or judging himself against users…it’s a waste of time.

[/quote]

Thanks for the post. I’m not saying to get fat, I’m simply saying that staying in the single digits and expecting to be gaining mass efficiently is just silly. The bottom line is that if you’re in a surplus of any amount, fat gain will be present. Fat gain is all part of growth, especially for a natural.

Your last comment is great…here’s the problem though. The steroid user claims natural, and it’s ridiculous. The rookie amateur is getting conned, and I don’t want to see it happen.
[/quote]

Im not trying to start an argument here, but, are you saying you can’t gain muscle, without gaining fat? If you’re saying that, that is completely wrong. Not only have I known guys, myself included. We have not only gained muscle without gaining any fat, we have actually lost fat. Granted, you can’t do that with really low bodyfat. But to say, you will gain fat, if you gain muscle is completely wrong. [/quote]

So what happened? Why’d you willingly put the fat back on?
[/quote]

exactly what fat are you referring to. All I see is one huge jacked mofo. [/quote]

That’s cool.

That’s not what we see…but you knew that already.

Dude…why? This shit is really fun for you?[/quote]

Thats not what you see. lol. sure thing boss. Anyone that looks at my pic and not see the freaken hulk, I feel sorry for them. They are obviously going by their dislike of me to come of that opinion. how can you not say im jacked. That chest, those shoulders, those traps. are you kidding me. I have gotten enough comments in and out of the gym from people that are 100% objective, without any bias against me. People here don’t like what I say or whatever, so they say, your not built, your fat. thats laughable. When you walk on a boardwalk on a beach, which i frequently do(hampton beach, NH) and are stopped quite regularly and asked how you got so built, that tells me, what im doing in the gym is paying off.

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
I don’t disagree with Rogue, you can build muscle and reduce fat, you can build muscle without putting on excess fat.[/quote]

I’m not exactly sure, why guys here love to argue this point. Its done so many times. “well, he was fat before the movie.” “They really aren’t that big, its all movie theatrics that make them look big” lol. excuses.

How about all the mma fighters that gains size and get leaner. Ive mentioned frank mir many times. He got bigger and leaner. If you see pics of him awhile back, he was always a tad chunky, now hes well built and much leaner. He did this in between fights. Why can’t guys here admit, you can get bigger and get leaner at the same time.

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
I don’t disagree with Rogue, you can build muscle and reduce fat, you can build muscle without putting on excess fat.[/quote]

I’m not exactly sure, why guys here love to argue this point. Its done so many times. “well, he was fat before the movie.” “They really aren’t that big, its all movie theatrics that make them look big” lol. excuses.

How about all the mma fighters that gains size and get leaner. Ive mentioned frank mir many times. He got bigger and leaner. If you see pics of him awhile back, he was always a tad chunky, now hes well built and much leaner. He did this in between fights. Why can’t guys here admit, you can get bigger and get leaner at the same time. [/quote]

Because you can’t.

[quote]Hallowed wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Interesting that we are finally having the discussion 2020Wellness supposedly so desperately wanted and he is nowhere to be found.[/quote]

!!!OMG<3

Just rolling through to see if 2020 got what he wanted… I’ve been on the fence so far but now it seems Obvi.

[/quote]

Sorry, life happens. To say my family and I have been busy is an understatement! I’ve got a new gym being constructed, moving, real world work duties, two young children, a wife in the midst of a master’s therapy degree, selling a second house or renting it (haven’t decided completely yet), and online work duties as well. Sometimes I get in a run where I’ve got more time on my hands…that time isn’t now!

Thanks for paying so much attention to me though.

[quote]2020Wellness wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
I don’t disagree with Rogue, you can build muscle and reduce fat, you can build muscle without putting on excess fat.[/quote]

I’m not exactly sure, why guys here love to argue this point. Its done so many times. “well, he was fat before the movie.” “They really aren’t that big, its all movie theatrics that make them look big” lol. excuses.

How about all the mma fighters that gains size and get leaner. Ive mentioned frank mir many times. He got bigger and leaner. If you see pics of him awhile back, he was always a tad chunky, now hes well built and much leaner. He did this in between fights. Why can’t guys here admit, you can get bigger and get leaner at the same time. [/quote]

Because you can’t.
[/quote]

Ummm, yes, you can. Ive done it, Ive known many guys at my gym that have done it. Ive read about many people that have done it. Ive read articles on this site about guys that have done it. While you’re entitled to you opinion, that doesn’t make you an authority.

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
Thats not what you see. lol. sure thing boss. Anyone that looks at my pic and not see the freaken hulk, I feel sorry for them. They are obviously going by their dislike of me to come of that opinion. how can you not say im jacked. That chest, those shoulders, those traps. are you kidding me. I have gotten enough comments in and out of the gym from people that are 100% objective, without any bias against me. People here don’t like what I say or whatever, so they say, your not built, your fat. thats laughable. When you walk on a boardwalk on a beach, which i frequently do(hampton beach, NH) and are stopped quite regularly and asked how you got so built, that tells me, what im doing in the gym is paying off.
[/quote]

Wow! Delusional to the MAX!

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

Ummm, yes, you can. Ive done it, Ive known many guys at my gym that have done it. Ive read about many people that have done it. Ive read articles on this site about guys that have done it. While you’re entitled to you opinion, that doesn’t make you an authority. [/quote]

Here you go again. “Ive done it” Proofs in the puddin’… puddin’.

Not for nothin’ but I think since 2020 has his own training business/training program which has worked for many people (real people not made up), he would have at least a bit more authority than yourself.

Also, he don’t look like puddin’.

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
I don’t disagree with Rogue, you can build muscle and reduce fat, you can build muscle without putting on excess fat.[/quote]

I’m not exactly sure, why guys here love to argue this point. Its done so many times. “well, he was fat before the movie.” “They really aren’t that big, its all movie theatrics that make them look big” lol. excuses.

How about all the mma fighters that gains size and get leaner. Ive mentioned frank mir many times. He got bigger and leaner. If you see pics of him awhile back, he was always a tad chunky, now hes well built and much leaner. He did this in between fights. Why can’t guys here admit, you can get bigger and get leaner at the same time. [/quote]

Semantics, semantics, semantics. You brought up actors and everyone else who responded to that point are making “excuses”. FWIW, I DO believe an individual can gain muscle and lose fat simultaneously. It’s entirely dependent on their starting point. Sedentary dude living off doritos and energy drinks will have dramatic results in those areas just by lifting and eliminating worthless food choices (not even ‘cutting’ per se).

However, this isn’t what you’re saying RV. I’m not even going to touch your attempt to use yourself as an example - I’ll just put that comment down to your unfortunate condition and the inability to use mirrors.

[quote]Dissection wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
Thats not what you see. lol. sure thing boss. Anyone that looks at my pic and not see the freaken hulk, I feel sorry for them. They are obviously going by their dislike of me to come of that opinion. how can you not say im jacked. That chest, those shoulders, those traps. are you kidding me. I have gotten enough comments in and out of the gym from people that are 100% objective, without any bias against me. People here don’t like what I say or whatever, so they say, your not built, your fat. thats laughable. When you walk on a boardwalk on a beach, which i frequently do(hampton beach, NH) and are stopped quite regularly and asked how you got so built, that tells me, what im doing in the gym is paying off.
[/quote]

Wow! Delusional to the MAX![/quote]

How exactly am i delusional? lets look at the facts. I have a 58+ in chest. 20+ in arms. I have huge wide shoulders. I have huge traps. wide thick back. 31 in legs. Im 285-290lbs. So tell me, exactly how am I delusional? I have bench press well over 500lbs, raw. I can incline press 375 for about 10 reps. Those are the facts. they can’t be disputed.

[quote]Dissection wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

Ummm, yes, you can. Ive done it, Ive known many guys at my gym that have done it. Ive read about many people that have done it. Ive read articles on this site about guys that have done it. While you’re entitled to you opinion, that doesn’t make you an authority. [/quote]

Here you go again. “Ive done it” Proofs in the puddin’… puddin’.

Not for nothin’ but I think since 2020 has his own training business/training program which has worked for many people (real people not made up), he would have at least a bit more authority than yourself.

Also, he don’t look like puddin’.[/quote]

Well, if hes so knowledgable, then he should know that its extremely possible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. I look like puddin? Your joking right. I look like an offseason pro bodybuilder. how can you look at my chest and shoulders and traps and think “puddin” I have been training since i was 15. thats a long time my man. I know what im talking about as well.

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
I don’t disagree with Rogue, you can build muscle and reduce fat, you can build muscle without putting on excess fat.[/quote]

I’m not exactly sure, why guys here love to argue this point. Its done so many times. “well, he was fat before the movie.” “They really aren’t that big, its all movie theatrics that make them look big” lol. excuses.

How about all the mma fighters that gains size and get leaner. Ive mentioned frank mir many times. He got bigger and leaner. If you see pics of him awhile back, he was always a tad chunky, now hes well built and much leaner. He did this in between fights. Why can’t guys here admit, you can get bigger and get leaner at the same time. [/quote]

Semantics, semantics, semantics. You brought up actors and everyone else who responded to that point are making “excuses”. FWIW, I DO believe an individual can gain muscle and lose fat simultaneously. It’s entirely dependent on their starting point. Sedentary dude living off doritos and energy drinks will have dramatic results in those areas just by lifting and eliminating worthless food choices (not even ‘cutting’ per se).

However, this isn’t what you’re saying RV. I’m not even going to touch your attempt to use yourself as an example - I’ll just put that comment down to your unfortunate condition and the inability to use mirrors.[/quote]

My unfortunate condition. bhahahahah. thats laughable. The only time i can see it being difficult gaining muscle and losing fat is if the guy is already extremely lean. then it might be very hard to do. Otherwise its very possible.

Trust me, I’m very critical of myself. But i also know my strong points. Im huge, jacked and highly developed. I have things i need to work on, just like we all do. but please, do not kid yourself or deceive yourself into thinking im not well built. Thats just lunacy to say that, given my stats. I weigh more than the rock does, and im 7-8 inches shorter. yep, thats not impressive now is it.

roguey, my man: just shut them non-believers up by supplying us with a few full-body shots.

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
I don’t disagree with Rogue, you can build muscle and reduce fat, you can build muscle without putting on excess fat.[/quote]

I’m not exactly sure, why guys here love to argue this point. Its done so many times. “well, he was fat before the movie.” “They really aren’t that big, its all movie theatrics that make them look big” lol. excuses.

How about all the mma fighters that gains size and get leaner. Ive mentioned frank mir many times. He got bigger and leaner. If you see pics of him awhile back, he was always a tad chunky, now hes well built and much leaner. He did this in between fights. Why can’t guys here admit, you can get bigger and get leaner at the same time. [/quote]

Semantics, semantics, semantics. You brought up actors and everyone else who responded to that point are making “excuses”. FWIW, I DO believe an individual can gain muscle and lose fat simultaneously. It’s entirely dependent on their starting point. Sedentary dude living off doritos and energy drinks will have dramatic results in those areas just by lifting and eliminating worthless food choices (not even ‘cutting’ per se).

However, this isn’t what you’re saying RV. I’m not even going to touch your attempt to use yourself as an example - I’ll just put that comment down to your unfortunate condition and the inability to use mirrors.[/quote]

My unfortunate condition. bhahahahah. thats laughable. [/quote] Vampire misses vampire reference? How strange… [quote] The only time i can see it being difficult gaining muscle and losing fat is if the guy is already extremely lean. then it might be very hard to do. Otherwise its very possible.

Trust me, I’m very critical of myself. But i also know my strong points. Im huge, jacked and highly developed. I have things i need to work on, just like we all do. but please, do not kid yourself or deceive yourself into thinking im not well built. Thats just lunacy to say that, given my stats. I weigh more than the rock does, and im 7-8 inches shorter. yep, thats not impressive now is it. [/quote]

Your strawman tactics don’t work on me (second attempt after the movie actor post). This is the quote I was referencing:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

Im not trying to start an argument here, but, are you saying you can’t gain muscle, without gaining fat? If you’re saying that, that is completely wrong. Not only have I known guys, myself included. We have not only gained muscle without gaining any fat, we have actually lost fat. Granted, you can’t do that with really low bodyfat. [/quote]

Specifically your claim that you’ve gained muscle and lost fat (implied both were done simultaneously). No mention of build or stats by me. This thread is about gaining mass without putting fat on, so taking you at your word, you would have had to have lost fat and gained muscle consistently during a lifting career lasting over 15 years for your experience to stand for anything.

For you to have done so, you’d have had to have started at a higher bodyfat when you started lifting at fifteen (unlikely), or you’ve bulked then cut over separate periods; meaning your experience isn’t what you’re making it out to be.

I’ll let people make up their own minds.