Explaining Year-Round Lean Doesn't Lead to Size

Training Bodybuilding
241

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]niksamaras wrote:
Every time the same thing. Aren’t you guys bored?[/quote]

I am[/quote]

It ends up being the same thing because people always seem to be discussing different things, not discussing different approaches to the same thing. [/quote]

?

There are people saying *never go above xx.3454564642% bodyfat, no matter what, ever, and you’ll gain just fine.

There are people saying that ‘bulking’ is ok if you understand that that you have to work intelligently when ‘cut’ time comes.

Two different approaches leading to size.

242

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
But if you want to end up big and LEAN someday, don’t think that bulking up is expediting the process or altering your eventual endpoint.
[/quote]

Wait…so any advantage seen in leverage leading to more weight being used leading to more muscle mass is now not a possibility at all?

Gee, I thought that was a big reason I did it.

Oh yeah…it was.
[/quote]

yeah this is a huge factor i believe, to me it would make sense that the set of 15 i do with 315 on decline will produce more muscle then the person using 225x10

i cant prove if this actually leads to more muscle but either way it is a lot cooler to use more weight at the very least :slight_smile:

243

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]niksamaras wrote:
Every time the same thing. Aren’t you guys bored?[/quote]

I am[/quote]

It ends up being the same thing because people always seem to be discussing different things, not discussing different approaches to the same thing. [/quote]

?

There are people saying *never go above xx.3454564642% bodyfat, no matter what, ever, and you’ll gain just fine.

There are people saying that ‘bulking’ is ok if you understand that that you have to work intelligently when ‘cut’ time comes.

Two different approaches leading to size.

[/quote]

Yep…and the only thing that really matters is…can you get huge muscles doing it.

I will say that acting like bulking up provides no benefits at all to anyone is just bad info.

244

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
But if you want to end up big and LEAN someday, don’t think that bulking up is expediting the process or altering your eventual endpoint.
[/quote]

Wait…so any advantage seen in leverage leading to more weight being used leading to more muscle mass is now not a possibility at all?

Gee, I thought that was a big reason I did it.

Oh yeah…it was.
[/quote]

yeah this is a huge factor i believe, to me it would make sense that the set of 15 i do with 315 on decline will produce more muscle then the person using 225x10

i cant prove if this actually leads to more muscle but either way it is a lot cooler to use more weight at the very least :)[/quote]

It’s the same shit powerlifters have been doing.

I got big…got WAY stronger, so more muscle came with it. What is crazy is believing that the added weight didn’t help at all.

245

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]niksamaras wrote:
Every time the same thing. Aren’t you guys bored?[/quote]

I am[/quote]

It ends up being the same thing because people always seem to be discussing different things, not discussing different approaches to the same thing. [/quote]

I do believe a poster asked a question about the route to take to build that size…so how are we discussing different things?

Not to mention the tangents about what someone supposedly wrote somewhere.

246

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]niksamaras wrote:
Every time the same thing. Aren’t you guys bored?[/quote]

I am[/quote]

It ends up being the same thing because people always seem to be discussing different things, not discussing different approaches to the same thing. [/quote]

?

There are people saying *never go above xx.3454564642% bodyfat, no matter what, ever, and you’ll gain just fine.

There are people saying that ‘bulking’ is ok if you understand that that you have to work intelligently when ‘cut’ time comes.

Two different approaches leading to size.

[/quote]

Last time I checked, this thread was about a competitive natural bodybuilders questions on the best way to treat the offseason.

That being said,

No one is saying that you shouldn’t go over X bodyfat, but there are some saying that you will be better served as a competitor staying closer to your competition weight than you would if you were to gain significantly more weight.
Staying close to contest weight in no way necessarily means having shredded abs, but it does mean that you will be able to keep more muscle when you diet down because you won’t need to lose as much fat.

Also, no need to use a silly argumentative technique framing your method in a logical light and making the other seem irrational…

247

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]niksamaras wrote:
Every time the same thing. Aren’t you guys bored?[/quote]

I am[/quote]

It ends up being the same thing because people always seem to be discussing different things, not discussing different approaches to the same thing. [/quote]

?

There are people saying *never go above xx.3454564642% bodyfat, no matter what, ever, and you’ll gain just fine.

There are people saying that ‘bulking’ is ok if you understand that that you have to work intelligently when ‘cut’ time comes.

Two different approaches leading to size.

[/quote]

Last time I checked, this thread was about a competitive natural bodybuilders questions on the best way to treat the offseason.

That being said,

No one is saying that you shouldn’t go over X bodyfat, but there are some saying that you will be better served as a competitor staying closer to your competition weight than you would if you were to gain significantly more weight.
Staying close to contest weight in no way necessarily means having shredded abs, but it does mean that you will be able to keep more muscle when you diet down because you won’t need to lose as much fat.

Also, no need to use a silly argumentative technique framing your method in a logical light and making the other seem irrational…[/quote]

I don’t think anyone is in disagreement that AFTER YOU ARE ALREADY HUGE staying closer to contest condition may be a good idea if your conditioning is your main focus…but again, even that would depend on how often someone is competing and their individual genetics.

248

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:

Last time I checked, this thread was about a competitive natural bodybuilders questions on the best way to treat the offseason.
[/quote]

Last time I checked, this was the title and OP:

Explaining Year-Round Lean Doesn’t Lead to Size

[i]
I’ve put in my 2 cents on the matter to one of my GST participants, but I’d like to get about 6 more cents worth from some members of this board on the matter.

This guy (a natural) was going strong on a bulk, then all of the sudden seems to have the need to cut and stay lean year round because he’s seen another guy (steroid user) doing so.

I know that if he adopts this way of thinking, he’s going to **** his gains up for the foreseeable future, and I don’t want that to happen. I’ve laid it out plain and simple for him, but I want back up artillery!
[/i]

[quote]
No one is saying that you shouldn’t go over X bodyfat, but there are some saying that you will be better served as a competitor staying closer to your competition weight than you would if you were to gain significantly more weight.[/quote]

Lot of assumptions there. What if your competitve goal is to move up in weight classes?

?? Again, lot of assumptions here. Lot of different genetic profiles to think about. Sounds like this post assumes one thing is true for everyone when ‘you diet down’.

[quote]
Also, no need to use a silly argumentative technique framing your method in a logical light and making the other seem irrational…[/quote]

?? Responding to your post = ‘silly argumentative technique’. Uh, OK, man!!

249

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]niksamaras wrote:
Every time the same thing. Aren’t you guys bored?[/quote]

I am[/quote]

It ends up being the same thing because people always seem to be discussing different things, not discussing different approaches to the same thing. [/quote]

?

There are people saying *never go above xx.3454564642% bodyfat, no matter what, ever, and you’ll gain just fine.

There are people saying that ‘bulking’ is ok if you understand that that you have to work intelligently when ‘cut’ time comes.

Two different approaches leading to size.

[/quote]

Last time I checked, this thread was about a competitive natural bodybuilders questions on the best way to treat the offseason.

That being said,

No one is saying that you shouldn’t go over X bodyfat, but there are some saying that you will be better served as a competitor staying closer to your competition weight than you would if you were to gain significantly more weight.
Staying close to contest weight in no way necessarily means having shredded abs, but it does mean that you will be able to keep more muscle when you diet down because you won’t need to lose as much fat.

Also, no need to use a silly argumentative technique framing your method in a logical light and making the other seem irrational…[/quote]

I don’t think anyone is in disagreement that AFTER YOU ARE ALREADY HUGE staying closer to contest condition may be a good idea if your conditioning is your main focus…but again, even that would depend on how often someone is competing and their individual genetics.

[/quote]

Agree totally here.

250

Then it looks like we are in agreement.

  1. Get big.
    This will likely require up to 5 years to really fill out and see your potential. Usually, if you have been lifting for a couple of years, you should have a pretty good idea what your genetics are.

  2. Once you have big muscles work on conditioning, shape and proportion in priority.

  3. If you have a contest in six months, OBVIOUSLY you wouldn’t want to put on extra weight that you will no doubt have to diet off soon.

  4. If you have a contest planned in a year, setting up some arbitrary weight limit that isn’t based on the muscle gained is stupid.

  5. Realize this doesn’t have shit to do with a beginner or intermediate lifter who has not gained the muscle yet.

  6. As far as those who are in those earlier stages, realize that whether you choose to bulk up or not, ignoring the positives and negatives of each to only shout out someone else’s opinion is retarded. If it makes big muscles, it fucking works.

  7. Those big ass powerlifters may be on to something.

  8. Listen to people who competed, people who got big and people who got strong. Ignoring the experience of others because they don’t fit into whatever box you have for them is stupid…like ignoring the words of an NPC competitor simply because he is an NPC competitor.

Care to add anything?

251

Hallowed has a nice butt.

252

[quote]Tech-Junkie wrote:
Hallowed has a nice butt.[/quote]

Yes, he’s nice to look at (no homo).

253

[quote]FattyFat wrote:

[quote]Tech-Junkie wrote:
Hallowed has a nice butt.[/quote]

Yes, he’s nice to look at (no homo).

[/quote]
Especially when he wears the underwear with the dickholes cut out.

254

[quote]2020Wellness wrote:

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:
I personally think that you don’t need to be super lean all year round, but I also don’t think that you need to put on excess fat in the offseason as a natural and expect that simply because you added a good deal of weight, some of it must be muscle because you are training hard.

IMO, you feed your body what it needs nutrient-wise, and you don’t need more than that. Too many guys justify eating boatloads of food and getting too soft (40-50 lb over their contest weights) and end up making just as much if not slightly less or marginally more progress than the guy that ate enough nutrients to grow on, but not much more than that.

As a natty, unfortunately, you can’t just constantly add weight and grow more and more.

So I would stay your friend ought to probably fall in between staying cut all year round and carrying too much weight.

Also, tell him to stop comparing himself or judging himself against users…it’s a waste of time.

[/quote]

Thanks for the post. I’m not saying to get fat, I’m simply saying that staying in the single digits and expecting to be gaining mass efficiently is just silly. The bottom line is that if you’re in a surplus of any amount, fat gain will be present. Fat gain is all part of growth, especially for a natural.

Your last comment is great…here’s the problem though. The steroid user claims natural, and it’s ridiculous. The rookie amateur is getting conned, and I don’t want to see it happen.
[/quote]

Im not trying to start an argument here, but, are you saying you can’t gain muscle, without gaining fat? If you’re saying that, that is completely wrong. Not only have I known guys, myself included. We have not only gained muscle without gaining any fat, we have actually lost fat. Granted, you can’t do that with really low bodyfat. But to say, you will gain fat, if you gain muscle is completely wrong.

255

How many times have we seen celebrities putting on tons of muscle in a rather short amount of time for a particular role. So many times, its hard to name them all. Just a couple off the top of my head. Russell crowe in gladiator, charlie sheen in his comedy spoof of rambo. This has happened tons more times, where an actor puts on mass, without gaining any fat at all. In fact, they are normally leaner, with the added size.

256

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
charlie sheen in his comedy spoof of rambo. .[/quote]

I’ve heard Platoon described as many things, but never that.

257

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
charlie sheen in his comedy spoof of rambo. .[/quote]

I’ve heard Platoon described as many things, but never that.[/quote]

Hot shots?

258

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
charlie sheen in his comedy spoof of rambo. .[/quote]

I’ve heard Platoon described as many things, but never that.[/quote]

Hot shots?[/quote]

Yeah was my fail at a joke. Nevermind

259

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
charlie sheen in his comedy spoof of rambo. .[/quote]

I’ve heard Platoon described as many things, but never that.[/quote]

Im not talking about platoon. lol. it was a comedy. done many years ago. It was an exact spoof of rambo. I think it was one of his “hot shots” movie. but it was funny as hell. Charlie was pretty jacked in that role.

260

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]2020Wellness wrote:

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:
I personally think that you don’t need to be super lean all year round, but I also don’t think that you need to put on excess fat in the offseason as a natural and expect that simply because you added a good deal of weight, some of it must be muscle because you are training hard.

IMO, you feed your body what it needs nutrient-wise, and you don’t need more than that. Too many guys justify eating boatloads of food and getting too soft (40-50 lb over their contest weights) and end up making just as much if not slightly less or marginally more progress than the guy that ate enough nutrients to grow on, but not much more than that.

As a natty, unfortunately, you can’t just constantly add weight and grow more and more.

So I would stay your friend ought to probably fall in between staying cut all year round and carrying too much weight.

Also, tell him to stop comparing himself or judging himself against users…it’s a waste of time.

[/quote]

Thanks for the post. I’m not saying to get fat, I’m simply saying that staying in the single digits and expecting to be gaining mass efficiently is just silly. The bottom line is that if you’re in a surplus of any amount, fat gain will be present. Fat gain is all part of growth, especially for a natural.

Your last comment is great…here’s the problem though. The steroid user claims natural, and it’s ridiculous. The rookie amateur is getting conned, and I don’t want to see it happen.
[/quote]

Im not trying to start an argument here, but, are you saying you can’t gain muscle, without gaining fat? If you’re saying that, that is completely wrong. Not only have I known guys, myself included. We have not only gained muscle without gaining any fat, we have actually lost fat. Granted, you can’t do that with really low bodyfat. But to say, you will gain fat, if you gain muscle is completely wrong. [/quote]

So what happened? Why’d you willingly put the fat back on?