I just finished trying massive eating for 1 month and my result was not satisfying. I really envy you guys that can gain muscle so easily.
I am 23 5’6 and 156 lbs and a hardgainer. It is not that i can’t gain weight by eating much but my body is very easy to get overtrain. This is why i only train 2x a week. Since then, i can sleep well. Before this, my heart rate is always up and got insomnia many times.
Here are the results:
June 4 to June 17: at 3100 cals (35/45/20 ratio).
June 10: BF= 10.25% (10 times measured by fat track digital caliper and take the average); Wt= 155.5; LBM=139.56; BF= 15.94
June 17: BF= 10.16%; Wt= 154.5; LBM= 138.80; BF= 15.70lbs
June 18 to June 30 (3400 cals and at 35/45/20)
June 24: BF=10.16%; Wt=156-157lbs
July 1st: BF=10.1%; Wt=156.5 lbs; LBM=139.8935; BF= 16.6 lbs
As you can see, i have wasted 1 month with nothing, i gain almost no muscle.
I do not know what to do. I am planning to do another bulking. However, i do not know how much calories should i take and what macronutrient ratio?
In June i worked full time and that’s all. I will not work till September.
I posted a question about using Androsol and etc etc to Mr Shugart somewhere. However, i think it is better to find a good macronutrient ratio for me before i use the Androsol. If without androsol, the muscle gain is more than fat gain in a certain ratio; adding androsol will be awesome.
The problem is you’re simply not eating enough. Figure out what your caloric intake should be according to massive eating guidelines…just guessing I’d say it should be up somewhere between 3500 and 4000 calories per day and you’re only eating 3100. The difference between gaining and not gaining can be as few as 2 or 300 calories per day so just try to eat more. Also what type of training program are you using? If you get overtrained training more then 2 days a week then something is not right…you’re either chronically stressed or depleted in some way.
I am not sure whether the caloric intake is too small or the macronutrient ratio is wrong.
I have been overtrained for 1 year with 5 days a week training and 4 days a week training. I am not going to repeat this again. My body weight stayed in a year at 140 lbs and after i changed to 2x a week training, it increases to 150 and now i am at 156-157 lbs.
If i started too much intake without the right ratio, i will end up with more fat than muscle.
Also the massive eating is mainly for people training 4x a week.
Ron: I may have missed it, but massive eating is for anyone, irregardless as to how many days you train. It can even be utilized for weight loss with the appropriate manipulation of calories. So, number one is to do what Kelly said; look at your calories.
Second, set your protein requirement at somewhere around 1.5 grams/pound/day.
Macro percentage? 40P/40C/20F is a good STARTING point! (A 55/25/20 is one that I picked up from one of the guys on this site, and so far it's working well for me). You really need to see how your body responds. By setting your protein requirement FIRST you may need to up the percentage of protein, but like I said, it's a starting point.
It looks like you need to AT LEAST go to a 3x week routine concentrating on basic movements. A lot of the guys on this site have some excellent routines (I think Nate Dogg has one). I am on a 2 day split; you’ve already said that that is not acceptable for you, so I leave the specifics of a routine up to the other guys. Hope this helps.
The ratio i am following right now is about: 35 C/45 P/20 F and if you calculate my protein intake at 3400 cals, it’s about 382.5 g of protein which is a lot and i still did not gain a proper amount muscle to fat ratio. The ratio i got is basically directly from Mr. Berardi.
You're lucky because you can do the higher carb massive eating. I do not think i can. My fasting insulin level is about 50 pmol/L and Fasting blood glucose = 5.4 mmol/L. If you calculate, the insulin sensitivity is about 2.
I will change the ratio as for July 2nd and 40c/40p/20f is what i have in mind too. But this calculation result of insulin sensitivity keeps bugging me. What happens if i gain more fat than muscle? I will waste another month?
I will definitely follow Kelly's advice and increase my caloric intake to 3700 cals/day.
I am still not sure about the ratio.
Mufasa, you said that you follow 2-day split, which means you only train 2x a week? If so, this is what i am doing right now.
Ron: This is a case where the “Muscle Nomenclature” gets a little confusing. A two day split (the way I use it) is working out 4 times a week (i.e. “blocks of 2 days are split by one day”). Some call this a “4 day split” or “4 days are split in two equal blocks” is how someone explained it. Anyway…to make it simple, I train: MON/TUE (Wen. off) THUR/FRI (Sat./Sun/OFF). There are others on the board who have EXCELLENT three day programs.
Diet Manifesto Rule Number Whatever: It is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to put on Mass without gaining some fat! Count on it. Bob Kennedy gave me perhaps one of the most useful pieces of advice I’ve ever received on this Forum. 1) Don’t let the fat gain get “out of control” or go overboard or you’ll be facing the often difficult task of SHEDDING a lot of fat while attempting to hold onto lean body mass. Then this tid-bit has probably been the most helpful. Think in terms of ratios. AN “ACCEPTABLE” fat gain, and one that will keep things from getting out of control is 1 pound of fat for every 2.5 pounds of LBM gain. Monitor. Adjust. Reassess. (Again; this is a ROUGH GUIDELINE that you can individualize to your own goals and circumstances).I’ve found Bob’s advice to be very helpful.
The acceptable range is helpful. The amount of fat gain: muscle gain = 1:2.5. If this is the case, people will achieve their dream physique in no time.
Now, how long should you be trying a new diet regimen? I will start tomorrow on July 2nd at 3700 (probably on 40/40/20) and when i have to reassess? Mr Berardi suggests 8 weeks and that’s 2 months. That’s probably too long.
I am afraid if it is not working than i will gain too much fat. Then like you said, it’s hard to shed it off without shedding a bit of muscle.
Eight weeks represents a diet CYCLE, NOT how often you should be monitoring your fat and LBM gain/ loss. AT A MINIMUM, especially at the beginning, it should be at LEAST weekly. (Never do it daily; there is too much fluctuation). I have even seen some monitor every third day. However, if you do it this often, be careful about making drastic changes in your diet of weight training. Weekly is probably best.
Yeah, i pretty much measure my body fat weekly as you can read at what i posted.
Now, does this mean i will have to stay at 3700 for 8 weeks? If let’s say i gain too much at at the end of week 1 or week 2, do i change the caloric intake or the nutrient ratio?
My problem is still how to measure if the program is working. do you agree with 1 pound per week gain? And if you do, it has to be somewhere around 2.5:1 (muscle to fat ratio), correct?
Sounds complicated eh? Too many variables involved.
Your caloric intake, by 200-500 calories per day, depending on how rapid the gain is AND it represents a gain in fat.(1 pound of fat = 3,500 cals; 3,500 / 7days = 500 cals. That’s where that number comes from). That’s where the “adjusting” comes in. Anytime you see “required” calories or ratios, that is merely a framework from which to work. You ALWAYS should be adjusting based on your response. The ratios may change a LITTLE, but not enough to make a significant difference. Try not to make it TOO complicated; keep it fun!
Ron, if I can just jump in here a minute… Were you eating with the ratios you posted above and STILL getting overtrained on a four-five day split? In other words, during the year that you wasted not making any gains, were you monitoring your diet?
The reason I ask is that it sounds like your nutrition was really bad during that time. However, maybe not. If you were montoring caloric intake and macronutrient ratios during that time, and STILL not seeing gains, then I would like you to post some of the actual foods you've been eating. If you can only train twice a week before you get overtrained, my feeling is that you simply may not be eating nutritious food (regardless of your macronutrient ratio). Also, how old are you? Post this info and I'll see if I can help Mufasa out by giving you some advice on your training program...
It’s getting much clearer now. I know what to expect and what to do.
Now, you mention that 1 lb of fat= 3500 cals. What about muscle? It’s the same right (i.e. 1 lb muscle = 3500 cals).
In massive eating part II, Mr. Berardi gave an example of himself where in a week he got a 3000 cals surplus.
What do you think of this? Too much?
At 3700, i will also have a surplus at 3000 cals. I know that if the fat comes, i will adjust the CALORIC INTAKE by 200-500. Obviously by reducing it since you gain fat, correct?
Mufasa is right keep it fun, you are already fairly lean, don’t sweat your bf% too hard while trying to gain mass save that for a cutting phase. Give the “Pound O’Week Diet” a shot its very simple and effecteive. I gained 15 pounds in 15 weeks and had fun doing it. Good luck, outlaw.
My training last year was a 5-day split with no breaks in between except Saturday and Sunday. I trained 2x a week for each body part and i never grew i guess. My bench press stayed the same. I started at 110 lbs and now it’s still about the same. I am progressing to 120 lbs right now. I never slept well, got increased heart rate.
My nutrition at that time was pretty good i guess since i always monitored my intake. However, the ratio was bad. It’s 70carb/30protein and got almost nothing for fat. Now, i realize that if you lack of essentioal oils in the diet, your steroid hormone production will be impaired which means reduction in testosterone. Correct?
As per my training, i am currently following a hardgainer method if you've heard it before. It has a website as well. I will post my training in the separate page. Also, the program mentioned that too much isolation exercises can cause overtraining faster in hardgainers than in anyone.
I am 5'6 156 lbs (10-12% bf: chest skinfold is about:5-6 mm; abs= 19-21mm; quads= 10-11mm. I am not sure if this is accurate enough).
I would also try ZMA. Although, I’ve only been on it a week it has made a tremendous differences for me. It will speed recovery and help with your sleep.
Guys, Im gonna have to jump in on this one because it makes me steaming mad. First of all I gave “ron” some quick email advice on how to get big because he seemed like a nice guy who was serious about training but simply was too “lost” amid all the competing theories out there. At this time Im not even taking more clients cause Im too busy but I threw the dude a bone…Anyway, what does “ron” do but tell me that he CANT follow my advice because of this excuse and that excuse! Then he comes to this forum to ask for advice.
“Ron”, do you want advice or just someone to tell you that you have poor genetics and are destined to fail? We cant tell you that, though, because its not true. You are failing because you are planning to fail.
Not that Im the end all, be all of training and nutrition knowledge, but come on now! When you ask experts for advice, take it!
RON…you bench 110 and weigh 150. Sorry bud, but my girl weighs 130 and benches more than that! And eats over 3000 cals per day!
Bro, you dont need to count calories, you need to count food wrappers!!! JUST FREAKIN TRAIN AND THEN EAT MUCH MORE!!! No one gets big lifting 2 x per week! As far as food, listen, you need to learn how to adapt. Why would you keep eating the same calorie levels for a whole month when you werent gaining a pound? Instead of saying "I dont know what to do", how about increasing your calories UNTIL YOU GAIN WEIGHT?
Quote on Timbo’s corkboard right next to “WWTMD?” is “If You Fail to Plan, You Plan to Fail” Of course these are all underneath, “JB’s the Friggin’ Man…Despite Him Saying He’s Not the Be All End All, He’s Pretty Dayum Close!”
Ron Jon SurfShop...set your priorities, set your goals...then map out the PLAN that will get you there. It's pretty much all here and if it's not, then you come to the forum and you'll find it...Hell, JB gave you personal advice for free via email, and you shunned it...that's about as bad--damn, in my book worse--than the haps with Dean and his Women Trouble on the other thread up there.