Evan Mathis, OG, Carolina Panthers

[quote]Phoenix1911 wrote:

Im gonna go out on a limb and say that most if not all of the trainers on this site have trained people who have gained more then 2lbs a month and done it without the use of supplements…this would defy the article you presented and would verify my point that not all people respond the same…to think so is narrowminded.

As I stated before not everyone is the same…not everyone relies on juice for big results…thats weak. You argue that gear can defy these laws of science you just planted in my lap then you outta think to yourself what would happen to the rules if someone had naturally high T lvls or other chems in thier body came along then? Oops…that would be option 3[/quote]

I think that 2 pounds per month of lean muscle mass is a good accomplishment in itself. That’s a medical doctor explaining the science of muscle gain. And what is this Carolina Panther player?

Nothing more than an add for a company. I will side with science.

you guys are arguing about 2 pounds per month

this guy gained almost 3 pounds PER WEEK

what i think:

(1) it is possible

(2) let us not forget the huge financial implications … ONE contract could make the difference between retiring at 30 or working as a used car salesman for life

what would YOU do?

[quote]Phoenix1911 wrote:
There are about 3000 (might even be smaller then that)people who play pro football…you are more likely to win the lottery then play in the league. This means that the 3000 people who are in the league are light yrs ahead of normal people when it comes to things like dedication, genetics, athletic ability etc. [/quote]

Bingo. And Bastard G nailed it right on the head, what I’ve been saying about the financial incentive.

First of all, I have my dount as to whether or not an actual doctor wrote that article for bodybuilding.com. Second of all, even if he is using “medical science” … I think most people on this site would weigh empirical evidence MUCH more heavily than any kind of controlled study that looks at a very narrow portion of the population in conditions that may or may not involve actual hard training.

[quote]WolBarret wrote:

So you really think that there is no difference between his constant training and one on one coaching compared to the 2 hour dvd regular people may buy and learn from. [quote]

His constant one on one coaching? First of all, who says its one on one? Martin Rooney and Joe DeFranco, both of whom work with NFL athletes and prospects, dont do 1 on 1 training, they do group training. Second of all, what do you mean by constant? This kid isnt working out 24/7; I wont pretend to know his workout schedule but I WILL bet that he’s spending WAY more time outside of the weightroom than I am in the weightroom.

Is there a difference between the dvd and a coach? Only the ability to tweak the template to the individual. But if youre consistent and you work hard and you listen to your body you will find what works for you. Dont make this stuff into rocket science, it’s not.

When you say that youre getting tips from gym rats, it makes me think of the old saying about giving a fish vs teaching to fish. If you get in with a good crew of lifters, they dont “give you tips” they teach you how to think for yourself, the million minutely different forms of squatting … to even begin to describe it would do it an injustice, but it goes well beyond “tips”

Second of all, and more importantly, what the heck makes you think that these trainers are anything more than gym rats? Honestly, Ikei could be awesome for all I know. He could also suck. I’ve never heard of him or his system, so I have no desire to bash it. But again, when you have MAJOR college s&c guys advocating HIT, when another combine trainer’s biggest credential is that he was top 20 in the olympia one year, you simply cannot assume, “well, theyre the experts, they MUST know what theyre talking about.”

I suspect that the job of getting athletes ready for a combine is A LOT harder than any of us think, but I also suspect that there are a lot more shitty trainers than we would think as well. this ties in with their argument that its their job to make you better - well, not everyone is all that great at their job.

As for their certification? Well, I might be impressed if I had any idea what goes into it. You can get certified in ACE. the NASMs cert is a joke - all it means is that you cna pass a test, nothing more, nothing less.

the same as gym rats getting him ready for the draft? Well, that depends on your definition of gym rats. Cris Carter was a workout freak when he was in the nfl (after he cleaned up his act) and during his career and currently he runs a speed camp (i use that phrase for lack of a better word.) He doesnt have any fancy credentials, but he does have a LOT of experience - “gym rat” experience and know s what works, thats why NFL players go there.

Ask yourself, why do the miami hurricane alumni - edgerrin, shockey, moss, LOTS of others - continually return to the campus year after year, EVEN THO ITS A DIFFERENT STRENGTH COACH FROM WHEN THEY WERE THERE? It’s the environment and being around others who are going to push you.

I’ve never seen letters after Louies name, but westside has produced some of the best powerlifters in the world. I would argue that it is environment and the shared knowledge of the scores of guys who have said “try this exercise it worked for me” or “dont waste your time with that periodization scheme, it doesnt work”

It makes good sense for these guys to hire a combine trainer because you are paying for that knowledge and experience that you dont have time to acquire. If you’re NOT training for the combine tho, then theres no time frame on your development, and if you’re willing to put the effort in you’ll acqure that experience.

It is obvious that the athletes pictured have made gains over the duration of their training.

It is also obvious that they are in more favorable light and look to have worked out before the second picture was taken.

Just think, take a picture of you right when you get up. Go workout and then take a picture. My gosh, you have gained 5 pounds of muscle in an hour.

First of all it’s Ikei Performance the name of the gym! Chad will find that funny! I am second in command at the gym in question and would be willing to answer any real questions about how we really took Evan Mathis and turned his physique around in such a short period of time. Please feel free to ask some real questions, and expect an honest answer!

Nothing to hide here gentlement. And by the way, his results were even better this year. We are a little bit behind on posting updates on the athletes. And if you want to check out more awesome results just go to www.ikeiperformance.com.
Please fire away!

First of all it’s Ikei Performance the name of the gym! Chad will find that funny! I am second in command at the gym in question and would be willing to answer any real questions about how we really took Evan Mathis and turned his physique around in such a short period of time. Please feel free to ask some real questions, and expect an honest answer!

Nothing to hide here gentlement. And by the way, his results were even better this year. We are a little bit behind on posting updates on the athletes. And if you want to check out more awesome results just go to www.ikeiperformance.com.
Please fire away!

Combine the fact that most of these guys are pure mesomorphs who like Eric Cressey said had very little knowledge of proper nutrition or supplementation along with some of the best trainers in the world and a sudden 100% dedicated attitude PLUS the thought of millions of dollars in bonuses and you have a recipe for some serious transformations.

Sorry for the run-on all you english buffs.

[quote]Julius_Caesar wrote:

I think that 2 pounds per month of lean muscle mass is a good accomplishment in itself. That’s a medical doctor explaining the science of muscle gain. And what is this Carolina Panther player?

Nothing more than an add for a company. I will side with science. [/quote]

2 pounds of muscle per month for someone not giving it 100%, maybe. It’s extremely possible to set up the right environment (naturally).

I’ve seen increases of 15-20lbs on guys before in 8-10 weeks and they were natural.

A medical doctor explaining the science of muscle gain…well it must be true then because we all know that medical doctors aren’t ever wrong are they?

you go ahead and take science, i’ll take what works, whether it is practical based or peer reviewed.

I remember Dave Tate saying something along the lines of, “science tells us what has already happened, it doesn’t tell us what is going to happen…”

basically, science isn’t the end all and be all…remember these claims from others of the medical community…

high protein diets bad for kidneys

steroids don’t assist in increasing muscle mass

limit fat intake to avoid fat gain

It’s pretty hot up here in B.C., would you send some of your rain over this way cos you seem to like raining on anyone who’s made quality accomplishments.

[quote]BASTARD G wrote:
you guys are arguing about 2 pounds per month

this guy gained almost 3 pounds PER WEEK

what i think:

(1) it is possible

(2) let us not forget the huge financial implications … ONE contract could make the difference between retiring at 30 or working as a used car salesman for life

what would YOU do?[/quote]

I said 2 pounds a month of muscle. In reality, many people will gain 5, 6 or more pounds in a month; some of this will be fat and some will be muscle. Even if the doc was off by 1 or 2 hundred percent, we would be talking about 4 or 6 pounds of muscle mass gain, and like he said, usually people add fat with muscle and vice versa (lose muscle with fat loss…) From my experience, this is reality.

With anabolics however, I think that much more muscle could be gained. If they didn’t work that way by increasing testosterol, people wouldn’t use them in the first place.