[quote]speed wrote:
Julius_Caesar wrote:
Let me spell it out for you:
S T E R O I D S.
There is no way that anyone is doing that naturally.
Bullshit. Not with Chad. Trained with Chad and Evan and I can guarantee you the dude is natural. You’d be surprised at the results you can get when you train with a coach like Chad Ikei.
[/quote]
Barry Bonds has some good “trainers” too.
No offense to you guys who say it cant be done without gear but I saw it done and did something similiar myself when I played college football…just because you cant do it without gear doesnt mean other people need it. See it happen all the time especially going from college to the pros and 1st offseason underneath the NFL strength programs(or firms).
What kind of price range is associated with training with a place like IKEI?
[quote]Phoenix1911 wrote:
No offense to you guys who say it cant be done without gear but I saw it done and did something similiar myself when I played college football…just because you cant do it without gear doesnt mean other people need it. See it happen all the time especially going from college to the pros and 1st offseason underneath the NFL strength programs(or firms). [/quote]
The problem with juicers is that they are most likely always full of shit and lie about juicing, so how do you really know?
Especially in pro sports where they have to lie about using.
That’s entirely reasonable - especially over the course of 12 weeks.
You guys need to understand that most college football players still think that chicken wings and pizza are good for them. The nutrition piece of the puzzle is huge.
Additionally, these are guys who come from collegiate S&C programs where individualization is tough to come by. You can only do so much when you have 40-60 guys in a weight room at a time. Put them in an environment where they get exactly what they need - and someone is there to keep them from eating hot dogs as post-workout nutrition, and you get incredible gains.
Also, consider that they’re going from being full-time students who play football to being full-time football players whose “majors” include Playstation, napping, and banging groupies.
Factor in that a lot of these guys are genetic freaks, and things get even more impressive.
Perhaps it’s because I have a frame of reference, but I’m not surprised by this -especially since I’ve heard good things about Chad (although I’ve only interacted with him via email once or twice).
All that said, those BF% claims are absurd. They may be reliable, but they aren’t accurate. None of those guys is under 6%.
[quote]Eric Cressey wrote:
Also, consider that they’re going from being full-time students who play football to being full-time football players whose “majors” include Playstation, napping, and banging groupies.
[/quote]
Why oh why did I quit playing football.
I have to agree with Eric. I coached a 17 year old kid a couple of years ago, for football. Initially, we worked on getting him stronger and he put on 4-5 lbs BW while maintaining the same bodyfat level (visually)at about 5’7". The focus was on strength so the body weight did not move up much. About 6 weeks prior to football season, he decided that he wanted to put on some size, so we focused on his nutrition and on hypertropy. 4 weeks later, 11 lbs greater body weight, again, no appreciable fat gain. Fast forward 2 years, he is now going into his sophomore year at college.
He has been training on his own for a couple of years now. He was down 15 lbs from where I had him and his bench press is 5 lbs less. 6 weeks later, training for strength, we put put 40 lbs on his bench (215>255) and 70 on his dead (335>405)but his bodyweight is still 10 off where he was in high school. Moral of the story, identify why you are training, look at what is preventing you from gettin there, and adjust. By the way, size and performance are not necessarly mutually exclusive of each other, but that is another story.
Hey Eric, how goes it? Mike Taylor.
[quote]Julius_Caesar wrote:
Phoenix1911 wrote:
No offense to you guys who say it cant be done without gear but I saw it done and did something similiar myself when I played college football…just because you cant do it without gear doesnt mean other people need it. See it happen all the time especially going from college to the pros and 1st offseason underneath the NFL strength programs(or firms).
The problem with juicers is that they are most likely always full of shit and lie about juicing, so how do you really know?
Especially in pro sports where they have to lie about using.
[/quote]
Dunno how it is in maryland but the people who do gear where I played ball and where I currently live have no issues whatsoever admitting they are on roids to freinds. Im not saying there are no athletes that use them because that would be false…I know a running back in the league who used to…and I know more then a few guys who I played college ball who did. I am saying that these people who dont beleive it can be done without gear are being rediculous…and most likely making excuses for thier own shortcommings(whether it be work ethic, genetics, or some other factor).
[quote]Julius_Caesar wrote:
speed wrote:
Julius_Caesar wrote:
Let me spell it out for you:
S T E R O I D S.
There is no way that anyone is doing that naturally.
Bullshit. Not with Chad. Trained with Chad and Evan and I can guarantee you the dude is natural. You’d be surprised at the results you can get when you train with a coach like Chad Ikei.
Barry Bonds has some good “trainers” too.
[/quote]
Yea, I know. But you don’t know Chad. A lot of the bigger time strength coaches utilize drugs with their willing athletes, but Chad isn’t one of them.
[quote]Phoenix1911 wrote:
I am saying that these people who dont beleive it can be done without gear are being rediculous…and most likely making excuses for thier own shortcommings(whether it be work ethic, genetics, or some other factor).[/quote]
Exactly.
[quote]Phoenix1911 wrote:
Julius_Caesar wrote:
Phoenix1911 wrote:
No offense to you guys who say it cant be done without gear but I saw it done and did something similiar myself when I played college football…just because you cant do it without gear doesnt mean other people need it. See it happen all the time especially going from college to the pros and 1st offseason underneath the NFL strength programs(or firms).
The problem with juicers is that they are most likely always full of shit and lie about juicing, so how do you really know?
Especially in pro sports where they have to lie about using.
Dunno how it is in maryland but the people who do gear where I played ball and where I currently live have no issues whatsoever admitting they are on roids to freinds. Im not saying there are no athletes that use them because that would be false…I know a running back in the league who used to…and I know more then a few guys who I played college ball who did. I am saying that these people who dont beleive it can be done without gear are being rediculous…and most likely making excuses for thier own shortcommings(whether it be work ethic, genetics, or some other factor).[/quote]
So I take it that this article is full of shit then?
[quote]Julius_Caesar wrote:
Phoenix1911 wrote:
Julius_Caesar wrote:
Phoenix1911 wrote:
No offense to you guys who say it cant be done without gear but I saw it done and did something similiar myself when I played college football…just because you cant do it without gear doesnt mean other people need it. See it happen all the time especially going from college to the pros and 1st offseason underneath the NFL strength programs(or firms).
The problem with juicers is that they are most likely always full of shit and lie about juicing, so how do you really know?
Especially in pro sports where they have to lie about using.
Dunno how it is in maryland but the people who do gear where I played ball and where I currently live have no issues whatsoever admitting they are on roids to freinds. Im not saying there are no athletes that use them because that would be false…I know a running back in the league who used to…and I know more then a few guys who I played college ball who did. I am saying that these people who dont beleive it can be done without gear are being rediculous…and most likely making excuses for thier own shortcommings(whether it be work ethic, genetics, or some other factor).
So I take it that this article is full of shit then?
[/quote]
You’re reading selectively. Look what is written, right here:
“Sometimes we are our own worst enemy when it comes to gaining muscle. Nine times out of ten, most of us fail in the dedication department.”
You’re also overreacting to the pictures. He didnt go from being a scrawny kid to mr olympia. He was a big guy, wiht a big frame who managed to take on a more “athletic” look (for lack of a better word) over a given time period.
I’m just wondering how many of these nay sayers have ever actually “flipped a switch” and made a 100% committed change overnight. When I first started reading about protein and meal frequency etc etc I absolutely gained weight and lost fat. Again, I didnt become mr o, but the changes were noticeable, and we’re talking over a period of 4 weeks not 8 or 12 or whatever it was that this guy did.
Just to take this thread in a slightly different direction. I followed this kid’s career at Bama whenever UA was on TV in my area and I think he’s a damn good player. Carolina got a steal with their 3rd round pick.
http://www.strengthweb.com/sports/pro_jody_shelley.html
That guy is my hero.
Is it just me or do a lot of these athletes have some serious posture/muscle imbalances?
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
Julius_Caesar wrote:
Phoenix1911 wrote:
Julius_Caesar wrote:
Phoenix1911 wrote:
No offense to you guys who say it cant be done without gear but I saw it done and did something similiar myself when I played college football…just because you cant do it without gear doesnt mean other people need it. See it happen all the time especially going from college to the pros and 1st offseason underneath the NFL strength programs(or firms).
The problem with juicers is that they are most likely always full of shit and lie about juicing, so how do you really know?
Especially in pro sports where they have to lie about using.
Dunno how it is in maryland but the people who do gear where I played ball and where I currently live have no issues whatsoever admitting they are on roids to freinds. Im not saying there are no athletes that use them because that would be false…I know a running back in the league who used to…and I know more then a few guys who I played college ball who did. I am saying that these people who dont beleive it can be done without gear are being rediculous…and most likely making excuses for thier own shortcommings(whether it be work ethic, genetics, or some other factor).
So I take it that this article is full of shit then?
You’re reading selectively. Look what is written, right here:
“Sometimes we are our own worst enemy when it comes to gaining muscle. Nine times out of ten, most of us fail in the dedication department.”
You’re also overreacting to the pictures. He didnt go from being a scrawny kid to mr olympia. He was a big guy, wiht a big frame who managed to take on a more “athletic” look (for lack of a better word) over a given time period.
I’m just wondering how many of these nay sayers have ever actually “flipped a switch” and made a 100% committed change overnight. When I first started reading about protein and meal frequency etc etc I absolutely gained weight and lost fat. Again, I didnt become mr o, but the changes were noticeable, and we’re talking over a period of 4 weeks not 8 or 12 or whatever it was that this guy did.
[/quote]
Often, people believe that if they take in 3500 more calories during a week that they will be successful at packing on slabs of muscle. However, the old adage that one pound equates to 3500 calories is right for fat but NOT muscle. If you want to gain one pound of fat, then you should be taking in an extra 3500 calories a week. Now there’s one way of putting on some weight!
As I mentioned earlier, the body’s multiple systems are all intricately interconnected: if one system has not undergone the proper adaptation, then the results will show in the form of a failure to produce optimal hypertrophy of the muscle complex. For example, if we were to look at some of the soft tissues involved in the hypertrophy process of the muscle complex, we’d see that muscle would generally adapt to a load within several days.
Unlike the tendons and ligaments, studies have shown that muscle responds by adapting after a period of several weeks or even months of progressive loading (McDough & Davies, 1984). It also should be noted that the protein turnover rate in collagen occurs approximately every 1000 days.
This clearly shows that even if one were to gain in bodyweight, the body would only be able to accommodate a certain amount in the form of muscle; otherwise, the muscles would fall prey to injury due to the time-span in adaptation rates for various other tissues.
Those who scoff at this and continue to believe they’ve gained super size over such a short period forget, as suggested earlier, that much of the increased bodyweight is largely due to increased body fat stores, glycogen and water.
Hypertrophy of the muscle complex has, so far, been shown to be controlled by what is known as protein turnover (the breakdown of damaged muscle proteins and creation of new and stronger ones). This process takes time. Just as the many living organisms around us in nature require time to grow, so do our muscles. In our enzymes the protein turnover rate occurs approximately every 7-10 minutes. In the liver and plasma, it’s every 10 days.
And in the hemoglobin it’s every 120 days. In the muscles, protein turnover rate occurs approximately every 180 days (6 months). This lends even more support to the observation that the turnover rate limits the natural body (of the non drug-using athlete, bodybuilder) in building muscle quickly.
The Colgan Institute of Nutritional Sciences (located in San Diego, CA) run by Dr Michael Colgan PHD, a leading sport nutritionist explains that in his extensive experience, the most muscle gain he or any of his colleagues have recorded over a year was 18 1/4 lbs. Dr Colgan goes on to state that “because of the limiting rate of turnover in the muscle cells it is impossible to grow more than an ounce of new muscle each day.”
In non-complicated, mathematical terms, this would equate to roughly 23 pounds in a year! Keep in mind that high-level athletes are the subjects of these studies.
[quote]Julius_Caesar wrote:
Phoenix1911 wrote:
Julius_Caesar wrote:
Phoenix1911 wrote:
No offense to you guys who say it cant be done without gear but I saw it done and did something similiar myself when I played college football…just because you cant do it without gear doesnt mean other people need it. See it happen all the time especially going from college to the pros and 1st offseason underneath the NFL strength programs(or firms).
The problem with juicers is that they are most likely always full of shit and lie about juicing, so how do you really know?
Especially in pro sports where they have to lie about using.
Dunno how it is in maryland but the people who do gear where I played ball and where I currently live have no issues whatsoever admitting they are on roids to freinds. Im not saying there are no athletes that use them because that would be false…I know a running back in the league who used to…and I know more then a few guys who I played college ball who did. I am saying that these people who dont beleive it can be done without gear are being rediculous…and most likely making excuses for thier own shortcommings(whether it be work ethic, genetics, or some other factor).
So I take it that this article is full of shit then?
[/quote]
HAhah nah man im not saying its shit…the article is good…informative too…and does what its meant to do…which is make normal people understand that they probably wont see huge gains even when using the supplements that are sold on the site (keeps people buying).
This article does not, however, say EVERYONE/s bodies respond the same. It doesnt mention which “elite athletes” were studied either or what kind of training they have gone through. There are plenty of things is doesnt cover. There are about 3000 (might even be smaller then that)people who play pro football…you are more likely to win the lottery then play in the league. This means that the 3000 people who are in the league are light yrs ahead of normal people when it comes to things like dedication, genetics, athletic ability etc. Its not unreasonable to think that these people can see gains that are not “typical” without using shit like steroids to get them there. And like I said I’ve seen it 1st hand and even been one of those people that have gained lots of weight in a short time (gained speed and the bf% tests indicated I had lost some in the process).
[quote]Phoenix1911 wrote:
Julius_Caesar wrote:
Phoenix1911 wrote:
Julius_Caesar wrote:
Phoenix1911 wrote:
No offense to you guys who say it cant be done without gear but I saw it done and did something similiar myself when I played college football…just because you cant do it without gear doesnt mean other people need it. See it happen all the time especially going from college to the pros and 1st offseason underneath the NFL strength programs(or firms).
The problem with juicers is that they are most likely always full of shit and lie about juicing, so how do you really know?
Especially in pro sports where they have to lie about using.
Dunno how it is in maryland but the people who do gear where I played ball and where I currently live have no issues whatsoever admitting they are on roids to freinds. Im not saying there are no athletes that use them because that would be false…I know a running back in the league who used to…and I know more then a few guys who I played college ball who did. I am saying that these people who dont beleive it can be done without gear are being rediculous…and most likely making excuses for thier own shortcommings(whether it be work ethic, genetics, or some other factor).
So I take it that this article is full of shit then?
HAhah nah man im not saying its shit…the article is good…informative too…and does what its meant to do…which is make normal people understand that they probably wont see huge gains even when using the supplements that are sold on the site (keeps people buying).
This article does not, however, say EVERYONE/s bodies respond the same. It doesnt mention which “elite athletes” were studied either or what kind of training they have gone through. There are plenty of things is doesnt cover. There are about 3000 (might even be smaller then that)people who play pro football…you are more likely to win the lottery then play in the league. This means that the 3000 people who are in the league are light yrs ahead of normal people when it comes to things like dedication, genetics, athletic ability etc. Its not unreasonable to think that these people can see gains that are not “typical” without using shit like steroids to get them there. And like I said I’ve seen it 1st hand and even been one of those people that have gained lots of weight in a short time (gained speed and the bf% tests indicated I had lost some in the process).
[/quote]
The article states that the best that you can hope for is about 2 pounds of muscle a month naturally and quotes the science behind it. From my experiences this is about right. Again, is the article full of shit, the claims exaggerated or the guy on juice? I don’t see a third option.
[quote]Julius_Caesar wrote:
Phoenix1911 wrote:
Julius_Caesar wrote:
Phoenix1911 wrote:
Julius_Caesar wrote:
Phoenix1911 wrote:
No offense to you guys who say it cant be done without gear but I saw it done and did something similiar myself when I played college football…just because you cant do it without gear doesnt mean other people need it. See it happen all the time especially going from college to the pros and 1st offseason underneath the NFL strength programs(or firms).
The problem with juicers is that they are most likely always full of shit and lie about juicing, so how do you really know?
Especially in pro sports where they have to lie about using.
Dunno how it is in maryland but the people who do gear where I played ball and where I currently live have no issues whatsoever admitting they are on roids to freinds. Im not saying there are no athletes that use them because that would be false…I know a running back in the league who used to…and I know more then a few guys who I played college ball who did. I am saying that these people who dont beleive it can be done without gear are being rediculous…and most likely making excuses for thier own shortcommings(whether it be work ethic, genetics, or some other factor).
So I take it that this article is full of shit then?
HAhah nah man im not saying its shit…the article is good…informative too…and does what its meant to do…which is make normal people understand that they probably wont see huge gains even when using the supplements that are sold on the site (keeps people buying).
This article does not, however, say EVERYONE/s bodies respond the same. It doesnt mention which “elite athletes” were studied either or what kind of training they have gone through. There are plenty of things is doesnt cover. There are about 3000 (might even be smaller then that)people who play pro football…you are more likely to win the lottery then play in the league. This means that the 3000 people who are in the league are light yrs ahead of normal people when it comes to things like dedication, genetics, athletic ability etc. Its not unreasonable to think that these people can see gains that are not “typical” without using shit like steroids to get them there. And like I said I’ve seen it 1st hand and even been one of those people that have gained lots of weight in a short time (gained speed and the bf% tests indicated I had lost some in the process).
The article states that the best that you can hope for is about 2 pounds of muscle a month naturally and quotes the science behind it. From my experiences this is about right. Again, is the article full of shit, the claims exaggerated or the guy on juice? I don’t see a third option.
[/quote]
Im gonna go out on a limb and say that most if not all of the trainers on this site have trained people who have gained more then 2lbs a month and done it without the use of supplements…this would defy the article you presented and would verify my point that not all people respond the same…to think so is narrowminded.
As I stated before not everyone is the same…not everyone relies on juice for big results…thats weak. You argue that gear can defy these laws of science you just planted in my lap then you outta think to yourself what would happen to the rules if someone had naturally high T lvls or other chems in thier body came along then? Oops…that would be option 3