I am 17 years old, and I seriously started lifting in January. By May, bench went up 30 lbs to 200lbs and squat went up 50 lbs to 240. This summer I have done strongman oriented stuff and my deadlift is around 370 (it was 225 in January).
Now I really want to get bigger. I have gained ten pounds this year, and my goal is to gain 20 more by January. I have read on here that 5/3/1 is more for intermediate or advanced lifters, but can I do the BBB challenge now? Also, can I do it for more than the recommended 3 months?
[quote]TommyGoss wrote:
I am 17 years old, and I seriously started lifting in January. By May, bench went up 30 lbs to 200lbs and squat went up 50 lbs to 240. This summer I have done strongman oriented stuff and my deadlift is around 370 (it was 225 in January).
Now I really want to get bigger. I have gained ten pounds this year, and my goal is to gain 20 more by January. I have read on here that 5/3/1 is more for intermediate or advanced lifters, but can I do the BBB challenge now? Also, can I do it for more than the recommended 3 months?[/quote]
The primary reason I believe people state that 5/3/1 is more of an advanced/intermediate program is that for the “newbie” phase, one could find faster gains with alternative programming.
Jim has written Boring But Big templates that last much longer than 3 months (upwards of 25 weeks). I’m assuming you’re referring to his 3 months challenge written in the Beyond 5/3/1 book which is just an example challenge. It’s not that you can’t do boring but big for longer than 3 months, it’s just that specific challenge lasts for 3 months.
Why are you concerned with starting the boring but big challenge?
[quote]TommyGoss wrote:
I am 17 years old, and I seriously started lifting in January. By May, bench went up 30 lbs to 200lbs and squat went up 50 lbs to 240. This summer I have done strongman oriented stuff and my deadlift is around 370 (it was 225 in January).
Now I really want to get bigger. I have gained ten pounds this year, and my goal is to gain 20 more by January. I have read on here that 5/3/1 is more for intermediate or advanced lifters, but can I do the BBB challenge now? Also, can I do it for more than the recommended 3 months?[/quote]
My advice:
There’s not magic numbers at which to start the BBB template or challenge, let alone the 5/3/1 program itself. You may not want to jump right in, but doing a 3 week cycle of 5x10 @ 40% may help you develop a feel and a base from where to go upward. The 5x10 @ 50% is no joke so having some preparatory work in not a bad idea. If you feel prepared jump right in to the 50% though, it’s not a big issue.
Eat, eat, eat.
Eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat.
Pay attention to recovery methods, re: stretching, rolling, icing, massages, etc.
Don’t do anything stupid, re: “I’m going to up my conditioning while on a high volume program!”
Keep non-BBB assistance minimal. On uppers do some pulling, and some rotator cuff. On lowers, prioritize abs.
At your training experience, I would not recommend it. However, I have learned that what I say rarely persuades anyone. As for the BBB challenge, you could do better but you could also do a whole lot worse. Just make sure you are eating as shown: you don’t grow if you don’t eat. This fact seems to be lost on the skinny jean queens that perpetuate the “clean bulk” myth and other such nonsense.
Ok well advice coming from Wendler himself is enough to persuade me. The first two guys say to go for it, and your answer was kinda mixed. Do you have any suggestions as far as programming if I shouldn’t do BBB? Like I said, I really want to gain mass right now and have a more muscular body, but obviously I still want to be strong, especially for a weightlifting meet at school in May.
I am in no way against “dirty” bulking. So what programming do you suggest that I do in order to reap the best results? I am willing to work hard and eat a ton. I am doing a couple small jobs just so I can buy the book and food. Should I do some sort of bb program for a couple of months before switching to the normal 5/3/1?
But, I defintitivly don’t want to make things worse. So I need to find a balance between the best program for getting bigger and stronger, while also not burning myself out. Thanks in advance
[quote]TommyGoss wrote:
Ok well advice coming from Wendler himself is enough to persuade me. The first two guys say to go for it, and your answer was kinda mixed. Do you have any suggestions as far as programming if I shouldn’t do BBB? Like I said, I really want to gain mass right now and have a more muscular body, but obviously I still want to be strong, especially for a weightlifting meet at school in May.
I am in no way against “dirty” bulking. So what programming do you suggest that I do in order to reap the best results? I am willing to work hard and eat a ton. I am doing a couple small jobs just so I can buy the book and food. Should I do some sort of bb program for a couple of months before switching to the normal 5/3/1?[/quote]
Just keep it simple. Lot’s of templates in the book. Don’t worry about “challenges”. Think longer term.
Your meet is in a year. Adding 100lbs+ to your squat is not a bad thing.
As for the eating thing, he explains it in his books. Stop thinking clean or dirty bulk. Start eating to win.
[quote]TommyGoss wrote:
Ok well advice coming from Wendler himself is enough to persuade me. The first two guys say to go for it, and your answer was kinda mixed. Do you have any suggestions as far as programming if I shouldn’t do BBB? Like I said, I really want to gain mass right now and have a more muscular body, but obviously I still want to be strong, especially for a weightlifting meet at school in May.
I am in no way against “dirty” bulking. So what programming do you suggest that I do in order to reap the best results? I am willing to work hard and eat a ton. I am doing a couple small jobs just so I can buy the book and food. Should I do some sort of bb program for a couple of months before switching to the normal 5/3/1?[/quote]
Just keep it simple. Lot’s of templates in the book. Don’t worry about “challenges”. Think longer term.
Your meet is in a year. Adding 100lbs+ to your squat is not a bad thing.
As for the eating thing, he explains it in his books. Stop thinking clean or dirty bulk. Start eating to win. [/quote]
My main goal right now though is to get bigger and gain mass. Is there enough volume in the normal one to do so? I agree that lifting and fitness is a lifelong thing, but I would love to make as much progress as possible in the mean time. And like I said earlier, I don’t have the book yet, but I am going to get it in a couple of weeks after I get paid for dog sitting. So, are you mainly saying that I should just do the normal 5/3/1? Just so you guys know, from January to May my workout consisted of deadlift on monday then pressing on Wednesday doing 3x3, 5x2, then 6x1 each week with accessory work doing and a full body powerbuilding workout on friday. I had pretty good results with that, I just want to keep progressing though
The one you posted looks pretty good as far as volume. By looking at the table of contents of 5/3/1 it looks like there are a poop ton of templates in there. I guess my main question would be, which ones should I stay away from right now in my lifting career?
[quote]TommyGoss wrote:
Ok well advice coming from Wendler himself is enough to persuade me. The first two guys say to go for it, and your answer was kinda mixed. Do you have any suggestions as far as programming if I shouldn’t do BBB? Like I said, I really want to gain mass right now and have a more muscular body, but obviously I still want to be strong, especially for a weightlifting meet at school in May. [/quote]
I think a number of us started 5/3/1 before the new book came out and BBB was kind of the default option at the time. Now First Set Last seems to have taken over that spot over (it’s in the Beyond 5/3/1 book if you haven’t read it). I’ve done it both ways and I like both ways.
The cool thing about programming is that there’s no rule that says you need to stick to the same plan forever, so if you want you can do BBB for 6 weeks, then do FSL for 6 weeks… and at the end of 12 weeks you’ll know more about yourself than any of us could ever teach you.
From what I’ve read a noob lifter can generally put on a maximum of around 25 lbs muscle during their first year of serious training, or a little over 2 lbs/month.
In my opinion: clean bulking is the process by which a noob arbitrarily chooses a number with no real basis in reality, then proceeds to quickly gain weight under the assumption that because he’s eating “clean” he is growing new muscle while minimizing fat. Then, the noob “cuts” until he discovers that most of his added bulk was just fat.
In your case, you chose 30 lbs… 20 of which you think you’re going to accomplish in 6 months.
[quote]some_dude wrote:
In your case, you chose 30 lbs… 20 of which you think you’re going to accomplish in 6 months.[/quote]
Sorry, I was thinking about January when I typed that. I actually mean by May. Which is a tad more reasonable going by the 2lbs a month rule. Also, I am not saying it’s a sure fire thing, it’s just a number that I am shooting for. I eat clean most of the time anyway. I want to stay around the same bodyfat, but maybe gain a little more.
This year I have gone from being skinny fat to gaining over 10 lbs of muscle, I am pretty sure. I guess that sounds weird but I am ok with gaining a tad bit of fat to the point of being big, but not a fat guy. I think I will do maybe a lower volume 5/3/1 first as you guys were saying, then do BBB a couple months later. Either way, I will read and devour the book.
So if I am trying to get bigger, I obviously need a serplus of calories, so I will do that anyway, but still be reasonable and healthy with it. This question started as me asking whether I have enough training experience to do BBB. And I think I have decided that I will do one of the easier 5/3/1 templates for a couple of months, then work into BBB. And maybe throw in a BB workout for a tiddle bit between them. Does that sound like a good plan? I am going to read the book and get more info from there, I am just making sure I am on the right path. Sorry for kinda coming off as an obnoxious noob on here. But compared to most of you guys, I am.
[quote]TommyGoss wrote:
Ok well advice coming from Wendler himself is enough to persuade me. The first two guys say to go for it, and your answer was kinda mixed. Do you have any suggestions as far as programming if I shouldn’t do BBB? Like I said, I really want to gain mass right now and have a more muscular body, but obviously I still want to be strong, especially for a weightlifting meet at school in May.
I am in no way against “dirty” bulking. So what programming do you suggest that I do in order to reap the best results? I am willing to work hard and eat a ton. I am doing a couple small jobs just so I can buy the book and food. Should I do some sort of bb program for a couple of months before switching to the normal 5/3/1?[/quote]
Just keep it simple. Lot’s of templates in the book. Don’t worry about “challenges”. Think longer term.
Your meet is in a year. Adding 100lbs+ to your squat is not a bad thing.
As for the eating thing, he explains it in his books. Stop thinking clean or dirty bulk. Start eating to win. [/quote]
My main goal right now though is to get bigger and gain mass. Is there enough volume in the normal one to do so? I agree that lifting and fitness is a lifelong thing, but I would love to make as much progress as possible in the mean time. And like I said earlier, I don’t have the book yet, but I am going to get it in a couple of weeks after I get paid for dog sitting. So, are you mainly saying that I should just do the normal 5/3/1? Just so you guys know, from January to May my workout consisted of deadlift on monday then pressing on Wednesday doing 3x3, 5x2, then 6x1 each week with accessory work doing and a full body powerbuilding workout on friday. I had pretty good results with that, I just want to keep progressing though
[/quote]
You should read the article. Do the program. And stop worrying about shit.
Sorry, I was thinking about January when I typed that. I actually mean by May. Which is a tad more reasonable going by the 2lbs a month rule. Also, I am not saying it’s a sure fire thing, it’s just a number that I am shooting for. I eat clean most of the time anyway. I want to stay around the same bodyfat, but maybe gain a little more.
This year I have gone from being skinny fat to gaining over 10 lbs of muscle, I am pretty sure. I guess that sounds weird but I am ok with gaining a tad bit of fat to the point of being big, but not a fat guy. I think I will do maybe a lower volume 5/3/1 first as you guys were saying, then do BBB a couple months later. Either way, I will read and devour the book. [/quote]
What I was told (I’m no expert on diet) was to aim for 12-15% body fat. In theory, if I’m at 15% there’s enough excess calories available with no real need to gain additional weight, and if I’m below 12% then it’s probably time to up the intake a little.
Personally, I really like this template. Using it taught me a lot about how to layout a program and maximize training with a minimal amount of exercises, and pretty much everything can be super-set with something else which really speeds up a workout. It’s based on BBB, but you could easily swap out the 5x10 sets for 5x5 @ 75%.