BBB and Strength Gains

Will the Boring But Big assistance program be a good idea in my situation, or should I just do 5/3/1 until my numbers go up?

Here’s the situation…I am ~180 lbs (I dont know bf% but I dont think that matters much right now), and my main goal in lifting is to be a solid 195 with good proportions, however my numbers are shit. I am coming back from a couple setbacks, but honestly, I wanna be moving more weight. I want to accomplish this while keeping the aforementioned things in perspective.

Yes, this is a serious question. No, I am not trolling. I dont want to build imbalances, but I want to be stronger too. I have a feeling I may be overthinking things, but it seems like 5/3/1 is a pretty sure fire program for making progress.

I am currently doing a modified Starting Strength with different rep ranges and assistance lifts.

Current #'s? All estimates off of my current workouts. I tried to default to less weight here. Im not trying to impress anyone, I just want to make progress and get to my goals in a reasonable amount of time intelligently.

Military press - 135 lbs
Deadlift - 285
Bench Press - 225
Squat (low bar ATG) - 250

Thanks for reading this. I appreciate the effort for those of you who do so and take this seriously.

-Zep

According to your numbers, you would make better progress with another program. Imho, 5/3/1 is for advanced lifters who stalled on weekly progression.

If you decide to use 5/3/1, go with the BBB-assistance. I think it is the best for your situation.

By the way, how do you do ATG squats with low bar? I can only go ATG with high bar.

I disagree, I think 5/3/1 is a great program for beginners/intermediates. The original subtitle says it all, “The Simplest and Most Effective Training System for Raw Strength”. It’s simple and straightforward, and it works.

Which assistance template you follow doesn’t matter a whole lot. Try one, see if you like it and if it works.

5/3/1 was designed for beginners to use as well. you may make faster progression on SS since you can add weight whenever you’re ready, but if you don’t feel like you’re progressing, then 5/3/1 (BBB) would probably suit you

No doubt 5/3/1 is great, but I don’t see how it makes sense to work with percentages at a military press of 135, a bench of 225, a squat of 250 and a deadlift of 285. He could make BIG strength gains by progressing weekly on such low numbers. He would make much faster progress with a program like 5x5.

Im glad I posted this here. I would have been called dumbass 4 times already in the BB thread. Thanks guys. You have no idea how much the fact that at least a couple people have taken me seriously is appreciated.

Here are my last 2 full workouts so that you guys have an idea what I am doing currently (working sets only.) (Note: I got crushed and got pissed and quit halfway through my last workout.)

B Workout
Squat 205 lbs for sets of 10/7/7
press 3x10 with 45 lb dumbells
lateral raise 3x10 with 25 lb dumbells
face pull 3x10 @ 9 on cable stack (form emphasized)
curls with 3x10 @ 60 lb ez bar (form emphasized until around rep 6 of last set)

A Workout
Squat 205 lbs for sets of 7/7/5 (no clue why I got less reps. Kinda got pissed.)
bench press 65 lb dumbells for sets of 10/10/8
deadlift 1x5 @ 235 (feel like grip is a limiting factor)
triceps pressdown 3x10 @ 8 on cable stack (form emphasized)
t bar row machine thingamabob 3x7 @ 90 (cheated a little with this one)

I make sure that I can get 3 working sets of 10 before I move up. Sometimes this can feel like 3 ten rep max attempts though. I try to feel out the first set to see how Im gonna do for the day on that lift. Sometimes I dont judge well and I get murdered on the second set and it just kills everything (happens with squats on occasion). Seems like if I squat bad I just get pissed and quit for the day (probably not the best thing, but I get real frustrated real fast when I start to miss reps that I feel like I should get). I have almost never missed on any other exercise. (Maybe due to the fact that I am squatting 3x a week?)

I dont get bored when I make progress, so that will not be an issue with whatever program I am on. Weight on the bar and weight on the scale is all I need to keep me happy.

Thanks again guys. Theres a lot of stuff going on with my life right now and the weights are keeping me sane.

-Zep

Strength - drop the reps to 3-5.

Size - 8-12.

I’d look at 5/3/1, for 6 months, with BBB, which will increase your strength and the 5x10 assitance work will help you get some of that size your after

I agree with sexyxe. Do low reps for strength. If I were you, I would do following:

Monday
Back Squats 5x5
Bench Press 5x5
Rows 5x5

Wednesday
Squats 5x5 (if you like, do front squats)
Deadlift 3x5
Military Press 5x5

Friday
Back Squats 5x5
Bench Press 5x5
Rows 5x5

The first two sets of the 5x5 are warm up sets. The last 3 are the working sets.

Thats how the 5x5 of the bench would look like:
5x100 (warm up)
5x150 (warm up)
5x195 (working set)
5x195 (working set)
5x195 (working set)

You do the same sheme for military press, rows and squats.

For the deadlift, it’s the same. You do 2 warm up sets with 5 reps, but ONLY one working set of 5.
5x 130 lbs (warm up)
5x 200 lbs (warm up)
5x 230 lbs (working set)

If you manage to do 5 reps on all working sets, up the weight. At your state, you should be able to put on weight every week on all the lifts.

I did this workout for 4 months and my deadlift went from 110 to 165 kilo, my bench from 90 to 120 kilo
and my deep squat from 80 to 140 kilo. If you eat a lot and you will see AMAZING gains from this kind of workout.

Just my 2 cents. Give it a try.

Another suggestion
5/3/1 with percentages based off true maxes to bump it up a bit
then 10x3 assistance with the main lifts

I went on a fat loss phase round about last April. Done IF for a 12 week period and managed to get myself down to 160lbs. Lost far too much muscle and ended up looking like I was ravaged with cancer.

I immediately went on 531 BBB in order to gain back some man points! On cycle 7 right now and have got myself up to 185lbs. Done the program EXACTLY as it says on the tin. Kept the rest periods to 90 seconds on the assistance sets as well. I feel this has been very important with regards to the quality of my workouts and the potential for growth.

By all means go for it mate. Do it for a year at least. BBB is GUARANTEED to get you strong and help you Grow!

Tempest666 has given excellent advice in this thread. You would be much better suited with something like 5x5 or the REAL Starting Strength (you are a fucking newb, why are you changing up and modifying one of the most successful strength programs ever created?).

I agree that 5-3-1 is not a good idea for rank beginners. They will make incredibly rapid gains for the first 3-4 months or so (due to better neural coordination, better technique of the lifts, and newbie gains) such that they would be getting 20 reps on their AMRAP sets within just a couple of cycles. IMO, this is too much for a strength program and would either require adding more weight than recommended each cycle or repping out 20 rep sets. As a 5-3-1 purist, I do not like the former idea and think the latter is ridiculous.

Not to mention that calculating percentages when your lifts are so weak is not really a worthwhile endeavour as they will not vary by a great degree.

Take up Starting Strength, add weight to the bar each time you go in, drink your milk, get a decent base, then switch over to 5-3-1 for the long haul.

Your goals are to get big and strong, 5/3/1 will accomplish that. That being said, so will starting strength. It is up to you to decide which you would rather do. But whatever you do, follow the program to a tee. That stuff you listed is not starting strength in any way. It is some program you made up.

even though Wendler nor Ripp has posted here (yet?) you would be advised to follow the program(s) to a T .
Anyone here would agree that these gentlemen of strength have put their programs together for a very specific reason with a very specific order. To not follow it as such would be the proverbial slap in the face.

Follow a program for a year as written, sleep deep, eat everything and then come back with your better #'s !

[quote]killerDIRK wrote:
even though Wendler nor Ripp has posted here (yet?) you would be advised to follow the program(s) to a T .
Anyone here would agree that these gentlemen of strength have put their programs together for a very specific reason with a very specific order. To not follow it as such would be the proverbial slap in the face.

Follow a program for a year as written, sleep deep, eat everything and then come back with your better #'s ![/quote]

I wasnt aware that they even bothered to post here.

I wouldnt feel right not doing the assistance lifts though. While I dont think that arms are the be all and end all of everything, I cant just not train them. I have been making decent size gains with the aforementioned program. About a pound of bodyweight a week steadily with what is probably under eating. (I try to eat a pound of meat a day whatever that may be, half gallon of milk, a couple eggs and whatever else I can get my hands on throughout the day, pizza, cottage cheese, or whatever).

I am at the point where I am willing to be patient to see results, as long as they are steadily coming. I figure Ill be at this for years, so theres no rush. Just gotta do it the right way.

-Zep

I don’t think you can build imbalances unless you’re up to the point where you’re THAT strong, like Masters or Elite strong. If you think you can handle the loads, go for SS or Madcows 5x5. I’ve made progress from 155x5 to 295x5 on my squat using these two programs in half a year. I’ve reset a few times on these programs as well. The main problem I had with these programs was that on certain days, where I was feeling less than awesome, I wouldn’t be able to finish the last 1-3 reps on the last set. When that happened I just felt dead and pissed for the rest of the week. People can say what they want, about motivation and mind over matter, but life gets in the way sometimes, whether it be school, relationships, work, or family. Not all of us can be like Matt Kroczaleski, and pull off sleeping 3-4 hours a day. He’s just extraordinary.
If you are going to go for SS or 5x5, and are thinking of making some great gains, get ready to drink and eat BIG. The more you drink and the more you eat, the longer you will progress on it. I remember I read a quote somewhere that said “consistency on a crap program is better than inconsistency on a great program”. I think it was Bill Starr that said it.

[quote]Zeppelin0731 wrote:

[quote]killerDIRK wrote:
even though Wendler nor Ripp has posted here (yet?) you would be advised to follow the program(s) to a T .
Anyone here would agree that these gentlemen of strength have put their programs together for a very specific reason with a very specific order. To not follow it as such would be the proverbial slap in the face.

Follow a program for a year as written, sleep deep, eat everything and then come back with your better #'s ![/quote]

I wasnt aware that they even bothered to post here.

I wouldnt feel right not doing the assistance lifts though. While I dont think that arms are the be all and end all of everything, I cant just not train them. I have been making decent size gains with the aforementioned program. About a pound of bodyweight a week steadily with what is probably under eating. (I try to eat a pound of meat a day whatever that may be, half gallon of milk, a couple eggs and whatever else I can get my hands on throughout the day, pizza, cottage cheese, or whatever).

I am at the point where I am willing to be patient to see results, as long as they are steadily coming. I figure Ill be at this for years, so theres no rush. Just gotta do it the right way.

-Zep[/quote]

If you want to train arms, get on a program that has you training arms.

[quote]Chris87 wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin0731 wrote:

[quote]killerDIRK wrote:
even though Wendler nor Ripp has posted here (yet?) you would be advised to follow the program(s) to a T .
Anyone here would agree that these gentlemen of strength have put their programs together for a very specific reason with a very specific order. To not follow it as such would be the proverbial slap in the face.

Follow a program for a year as written, sleep deep, eat everything and then come back with your better #'s ![/quote]

I wasnt aware that they even bothered to post here.

I wouldnt feel right not doing the assistance lifts though. While I dont think that arms are the be all and end all of everything, I cant just not train them. I have been making decent size gains with the aforementioned program. About a pound of bodyweight a week steadily with what is probably under eating. (I try to eat a pound of meat a day whatever that may be, half gallon of milk, a couple eggs and whatever else I can get my hands on throughout the day, pizza, cottage cheese, or whatever).

I am at the point where I am willing to be patient to see results, as long as they are steadily coming. I figure Ill be at this for years, so theres no rush. Just gotta do it the right way.

-Zep[/quote]

If you want to train arms, get on a program that has you training arms.[/quote]

That is why I am leaning toward BBB, but I really want my numbers to go up. Lets say the goal is to be a lean well proportioned 195 with a 1100+ total.

-Zep

Hey Zep, fwiw. I started lifting heavy Halloween of 2010. I weighted 173# with a 275squat, 135 bench and 315 dead for a 725 total. Yeah I sucked. BUT I followed the Westside template to the letter (i am anal retentive and enjoy mathmatical challenges) and in 15 months have increased my numbers to this 375Squat (deeper also) 245 bench (was a competitive cyclist) and 455 dead for a 1075 total so far… I am aiming higher for this coming Halloween.

Be dedicated to ONE program, sleep/recover well, eat a brontosaurus steak every once in a while and be Consistent and you will get there. One last thing. I have gone from 173 to 198 with the same BF%.

Good fortune, lift heavy, be Strong(er) !

I am not a beginner, but I am also not that strong. I have been using 5-3-1 for deads and squats since ‘07 (I think) and on and off for mp’s and bench. I was pretty beat down @ 6 months ago and had lost my form and decided to dial it way back, start light, and work on technique and getting stronger - i.e. I ditched my belt, knee wraps, etc. I arbitrarily picked and reset my squat and dl at 250, my bench at 225 and my mp at 135. My reps on my last sets were ridiculous for months - like 20 on sq/dl and 12-15 on bp. I am glad I did not see or listen to any of the crap on here re: 135 and 250ish being too light on mp and sq/dl respectively. The improvement in technique, especially the dl, which I reset b/w reps without releasing my hands from the bar, has been monumental. Rep 20 when that fatigued forced me to fight and hold form and thus get better and stronger. I am now getting back into the 7-10 rep ranges for amrap sets and feel great. There are also girls at my gym using 5-3-1 with MUCH lighter weight than Zepp is lifting and progressing nicely. I know it is all relative, but I would not hesitate at ALL to start with Zepp’s numbers - I also cannot imagine JW would dissuade him either. I would agree though with the advice to follow 5-3-1 to a T. Do not mix, alter, whatever. The BBB challenge is awesome as well. Lovin’ it.
Stay strong

One more thing - don’t forget to use 90% of your actual maxes to base your percentages. For my reset, I actually went a lot lower for the above reasons