Thursday, September 18
Two mile walk with Louie.
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@BethB I thought I’d bring the conversation over here and post a pic for context, and also to say to you that you are 100% not past your sexy prime, or whatever. Fitness is the fountain of youth, in all the ways. It obviously looks good, but it also allows for activities that are impossible if you neglect it, e.g. playing kickball with kids and grandkids and hoping to kick their asses. It extends life and prevents diseases that make people feel old. Covid (the lifestyle and emotional components of it, not the disease itself) messed with me pretty badly. I fell off my workouts in a way that I’d not done before, and packed on weight. Inflammation, which I’d been dealing with for a bit, increased, and I started having erratic heartbeat issues (“not the dangerous kind,” according to my doc, lol). I mindfucked whether to just sort of sink into “average American woman” while considering the 2024 T-ransformation Challenge.
I decided to go ahead and do the challenge, embarrassing pics and all. My inflammation is largely resolved. Heart issue gone. Weight down. And I feel like myself. Not my 40yo self or 20yo self, but…me. In good shape for my age. People know I work out without me having to say it. Just…me. A dorky girl in glasses who likes to spit quotes and statistics but with a body my husband chases.
This has been spammed (along with others) around this site in the past, but here is me at 46:
And a couple of weeks ago at 61. Nothing to write home about, but I think indicative of fitness:
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Well I know what you mean about the “just be an average American woman.” That’s the thinking that got me to the point that I was when I started here. I kept thinking, why do I care, I’m getting old anyway. The workouts have really helped me to feel better mentally and physically. I was getting bad. Just so inactive and my digestive tract was trying to kill me. When I was around 38 I got into lifting and really saw a difference. I see the difference now, but after 2 c-sections and an open hysterectomy, my body looks a bit like it was ridden hard and put away wet. But my husband is a fan and I’m good with that. I have been hesitant to put up pictures of myself but I will post some on my thread so you have some reference as well. Really I just want to stay active and healthy. Someday in the not so near future I want to be a good grandma who does shit with her grandkids. Lifting makes my brain better. Which is good because it can be a bit scary in there some days. FYI, I’m glad I found you here. 
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I’m so glad you found us, too!
Four c-sects here, in just under five years between ages 25 and 30. I try to be careful not to compare myself to Jennifer Aniston, who has advantages I don’t. I try to remember that I’m only racing me.
I wasn’t an athletic kid - I identified as bookish and dorky, picked near last for teams in gym. When I was 21 I took a second job at a women’s “fitness center” because I wanted to be able to use the tanning beds for free. I wound up in lower management ultimately, and relocated with the company a couple of times. My friend group started including jocks, though I still wasn’t one. I was there because I sold memberships so well, which was really what our jobs were. I was good with awkward kids and divorcing moms and such because I guess I made them feel like they belonged at the gym. Eventually I started having kids and took a job at a Jenny Craig Weight Loss Center, which I was also weirdly good at, and then over time (was a SAHM for a while) went back to school and ultimately to grad school. Those jobs left me with a burning interest in it all. I also watched my mother die abruptly at 21, when she was 47. It made an impression! So there’s the health piece there for me as well.
The first thing I quoted above from the T-ransformation is the start of a conversation I found helpful. You’ll see if you decide to skim it the support I got from the community here. If you peek at others’ before and afters in the results threads, I think you’ll see cool changes over the course of 6 months. (I never look any different, lol.) I think @throwawayfitness did the 2024 one, too, and the before pics relative to his current log photos are super cool.
Also, check out @unicornsandrainbows progress over the past year or so. (2 years?)
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I’ve seen @unicornsandrainbows . Beyond impressive.
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I’d like to pose a thought/question to you both. Let me preface this by saying I have been on other social media way too often with my current cut, and I’m in a weird spot mentally.
I’m not on the side of “healthy at any weight”. Overweight and under muscled is absolutely a thing, and I have a much higher bar for myself. However, I am starting to resonate with some of the other catch phrases floating around, such as, “take up space”, “stop focusing on shrinking”, “rejecting diets”, etc.
Emily, you brought up not comparing yourself to Jennifer Anniston. It’s so easy to do, and feel like you are never good enough. Those two pictures you posted say otherwise. Twenty years of a beautiful life, and you look like you didn’t age. How many people can say that? Looking the same and being fit from 40-60? That is outstanding, do not sell yourself short.
I appreciate the nod on my progress over the last two years. It’s been awesome to see the changes and I am finally starting to be happy with the way I look. That said, there are more days that I feel I am still fat, that I shouldn’t or can’t eat this or that, I avoid going out because I feel out of control around food. I constantly think about food: building orders at restaurants that I’ll never order, looking at recipes and figuring out how to dissect them into fitting my macros. I get panicky feelings when my plate is empty and I am still hungry. I count down minutes until my next meal. I sneak bites from what I when my hubby isn’t looking.
I love lifting. I love feeling/being strong. I love that my obliques cast a shadow. I love running and feeling fast, nailing workouts and paces and just wanting MOVE.
I feel none of those things when I am focused on getting lean.
While I agree there is a phase for everything, at what point do us ladies say enough? Just eat because we want to fuel for performance and feel good, to enjoy a social activity, to spend time with family without keeping track of how many chips we had, to try a new restaurant without skipping meals the rest of the day to “make room”?
Unicorn rant over.
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I need to think about this a little bit before answering. It’s certainly not limited to the women on TN, this question of “enough” and the compulsive nature of it all.
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Friday, September 19
Weight 147.4
CG Max day 40/50, another “wee fun day,” which leads me to question whether Caroline Girvan gets invited to many parties because as fun goes I’ve had better - elbow past knee crunch, tucks, rear delt fly, lateral raise, skull crusher, tricep press, concentration bicep curl, hammer curls - with a 15 minute/1 mile cardio warmup. It all went well enough. The ab stuff is hard - I need to do more. Or less! 
Probably going hiking later, if so will update.
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The book I am currently reading has the following quote and I thought it was interesting that I read your thought and this paragraph on the same day.
"This goes double for women, whose bodies are already maniacally scrutinized and controlled. Enforcing the importance of diet and weight loss literally keep everyone, especially women, in a weakened state. Therefore, actually gaining strength is a stacked threat. Strong women reflect a double rejection of the status quo- they’re not just strong, but they are the gender who “shouldn’t " be strong. It’s no wonder strong women are so feared and so vilified, why I was made to be so afraid of them and made even more afraid of becoming a strong woman.”
Casey Johnston, A Physical Education
And I agree with you. Feeling the need to fit into what you “should” be is exhausting. I whine a bit about my weight not moving, but I just want to be strong. I see people I love living such unhappy lives and being physically disabled by their own hand. Refusing to change in order to find a better way. THAT is what I want to avoid. Being that I am a human, I like to have something to complain about. My scale is the perfect target as it can not fight back. 
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Saturday, September 20
Weight 146.6
Updates: I did go hiking yesterday, 3 miles. What a beautiful day. We’re going to head out soon for another - it’s only 36° so we’re giving the sun time to do its thing. Not because 36 is too cold, but because the temperature will probably go up quickly, and I don’t want to overdress.
@Andrewgen_Receptors I was thinking about the tracking question yesterday while hiking, and realized I’d stumbled into another “keep the goal the goal” situation. First, let me say that I so appreciate your input, which I value tremendously. There is no question that you have quality insight to offer, and I appreciate you looking beyond our disagreements on cultural/political issues. I hope you find me similarly supportive of your training goals. (Because I am rooting for you.) Thinking more about it yesterday, I realized that while I share @BethB’s frustration with stagnant weight loss, weight loss isn’t my primary goal. I do know how to do that, and you’re right in everything you said. However, my primary goal currently is to learn to eat without the training wheels. I’ve spent the last almost two years reworking my entire approach to exercise and diet. I started with a giant cleanup of my diet (which wasn’t terrible…I’ve been pretty successful at maintaining a decent feminine physique over time) and a shifting from primarily cardio with strength a distant second priority to strength as my main pursuit and cardio in support of that. I lost 10 lbs, then eased off on diet and made strength gains the new goal. I did gain 5 lbs back, but then managed to stabilize my weight and maintain it. After nearly a year of that I think I’m in a great place with my workouts - they are enjoyable, effective, and sustainable for the long term. So back to diet. With the retatrutide, I’m hoping to develop new habits while losing. Tracking for me becomes a most-bang-for-the-buck exercise because I’m a volume eater. And that’s fine for being on a diet, where I should get the most bang for my nutritional buck, but requires either permanent dieting or the yo-yo approach most of us demonstrate. So today the goal is to be more in tune with hunger and satiety cues and to learn that I don’t need to eat every single thing I’m “allowed” to eat. That being the case, I think I need to be in more of an experimental mindset than a full steam ahead mode. So limited tracking and acceptance of slower progress in pursuit of sustainable change.
I recognize that this was a LONG explanation and undoubtedly much more than you needed or wanted to know, but again, I appreciate your help and want you to feel motivated to chime in in future, so I felt that I owed an explanation. I also don’t want you - or anyone - to think I’m lazy, lol.
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Side note: I think I’m ready to pivot. Away from weight loss and on to gains. I figure it will all come out in the wash. To be clear, I’m still logging everything. Lol.
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@BethB, your post to @unicornsandrainbows so perfectly matches the one I wrote before seeing it.
So this is the point, though. I don’t sell myself short, but I am NOT the same now as I was. If I were to take a pic of myself posed as I was in the first pic, you’d laugh. Acceptance becomes necessary (back to @SkyzykS’s Serenity Prayer). Acceptance is going to be different for each of us depending on both emotional and physical factors. Currently for me it’s aging. It always comes down to “when is enough enough?” I’ve posted a bit about my family and my unwillingness to become a giant buzzkill because I want to look good. Although I DO want to look good! But to whom? So okay, I believe 100% that visible fitness advantages me at work. It makes me more credible to a broader demographic of clients - young adults, athletic men and women, and males in general - while not disadvantaging me in the least with women who in a different context would be intimidated by me. So my frumpy coworkers get weird about it, but my frumpy clients just see me as all the more worthy of respect. My kids are proud of me, I know. Not for fitness alone, but it’s part of it.
But my husband apparently didn’t even notice that I fell apart physically during covid. I know he prefers the current in-better-shape me, but I think that’s because I’m less self-conscious, so less covered up and more flirtatious with my body. Men like scantily clad wives! It doesn’t matter about 7 lbs, I don’t think. An advantage I’ve had is that I hear all sorts of things at work from people who are not filtering themselves or trying to please me with what they’re saying. An example is a guy my age when I was in my late 40’s, talking about how much he loved to spoon his wife. He said “I know she feels self-conscious because she’s heavy, but I love wrapping my arms around her because she’s so warm and safe. I don’t care about her belly. It feels good to me.” I try to update my own insecurities when I hear something that contradicts my fears. Because I don’t want to chase perfect. When I was in my late 30’s and early 40’s I based some of my eating decisions on the week’s treadmill milage. If up, I’d have a sundae with my burger and fries when I went to Friendly’s with the kids. If down…maybe yes and maybe no.
As my 1st marriage was in its death throes - before I started working with adults - I remember wondering why I worked so hard to be sexy while in a sexless marriage. And the answer I got from myself was that this is the version of me with which I identify.
So for you, Unicorn, that becomes the question. What is the you you identify with? I need to go to the fair and eat french fries sometimes. That’s “me.” If ever I quit alcohol altogether it will be because its enjoyment has waned for me, not because of physique goals. I’ve always thought the ideal practice for emotional issues, e.g. eating, dating, is that the mind determines the outline, and then feelings get to color freely within those lines. In practice for me at your age that would mean that I was fine with overindulging, but then would compensate by eating extra clean for a couple of days after.
I think for you, deep breaths when you start to obsess. I think you’re fearful of losing this crazy-cool thing you’ve won for yourself, and need to work to relax and get to know this you. Your hunger SHOULD take up space, and so should you. Maybe view it as an experiment? (I think my post to @Andrewgen_Receptors speaks to all of this.) Maintenance is harder than losing I think. There IS a sweet spot, though.
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My advice is always only a suggestion, often unsolicited… you’re welcome to treat it accordingly 
I think you might find your, lets call it “intuitive eating” experimentation to work well while on retatrutide. My concern is when you stop, you will have all the old food noise coming back and your intuition will say it’s okay to eat when you don’t need to.
That’s MY personal concern, and i might just be projecting that onto you. You should experiment how you see fit, and i hope my concern applies to neither of us 
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I am a big fan of Ilona Maher. If you are not familiar with her, check her out.
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I’m not sure I agree, unless we leave room for “maintaining as progress.” It’s hard to balance calories in vs out while pursuing strength and other fitness goals, e.g. running. For me this might represent increased sprint training, for @unicornsandrainbows, competitive distance running. Either way, there’s a point at which you’ve achieved weight loss goals and are eating to fuel activity. Maintaining can feel like trying to balance on a paddle board in whitewater. Doing it well IS progress. Women are not going to be able to put muscle on like you do, particularly without hormone assistance, which is not a look most women want anyway, so “progress” is something different.
I’ve been able to attain this balance in the past, and was pretty happy. My progress/regress was manageable as a weekly or monthly thing, so I never had to endure a giant cut, just brief pull-backs. During “trampoline season,” when my teenager and I were playing trampoline tag every day in addition to my runs and lifting, I ate more. When graduate school forced reductions in activity during finals, I ate less. Fitness goals had to fit in alongside other life stuff, so there were ebbs and flows there, too.
This conversation now spans what, three logs? Maybe I’ll bring this back to my log, so you don’t get overwhelmed by it, @throwawayfitness.
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Oh no, not just your concern! I’m worried about it, too. But it’s worth an experiment. Like, I’ve been able to eat considerably less veggies. Not that big a deal, but my hope is to dish out food after I discontinue the med the way I do now and become less accustomed to volume. I was at a birthday party yesterday that would have challenged me much more prior to starting reta, though I did eat stupid stuff because we were there for hours and aside from chips and some extra sharp cheddar (not my favorite) everything was sweets. I’ll have to develop self-control for those circumstances. I did make sure to get some protein in before the party. So we’ll see. I’d been doing pretty well maintaining before starting it, so I’m hoping that will be the case again after I’ve lost the weight and am off. We’ll see! Here’s my weight charted from October of last year, with the reta coming onboard in July:
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This is how I see it. When you stop maintaining you start to lose. If you are maintaining than you are progressing. I don’t think you can stay active and not have some level of progress. Even if it’s just that your mile walk is slightly faster or easier than it was previously.
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May I throw out a compliment, very good for 61.
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I think this is the correct mental model.
If you aren’t progressing, you’re regressing.
I believe it needs to be looked at this way.
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In my case, yes, a series of ongoing adjustments - balancing on the head of a pin - which will be progress for me. My goal is to find the sweet spot, diet-wise, and from there make only minor adjustments as needed for increased or decreased energy output. The holidays will always require a subsequent period of reduced calories for me, because I prioritize eating cookies with my family over physique goals. Which is fine, because I love the austerity of January, maybe even as much as I love December’s excess.
But you and @Andrewgen_Receptors have a different goal, which is to compete and, presumably, win. That requires a whole 'nother level of “A” game. I’m not trying to win anything beyond self-respect and a body that feels good and makes my husband happy (not that he asks for that). And I guess my kids proud. And my clients willing to listen to me give health and fitness advice, because I’m so interested in these topics and love to push them on people considering change.
I think working out maintenance at this stage of life will be my win. Experience tells me that I’ll be chasing the same fitness goals over and over again forever as life interferes and I have to build back up after a slide (regressing). But I’m intellectually okay with that, because I know how good the build-back feels. I know that after only a couple of weeks back on track I can feel my posture change and I start feeling more confident and a little sexier. Then comes the stage where it’s all I can think about I’m breathless in love with it (whatever “it” has been across my adulthood).
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