a lot of good info here! thanks, guys. i just ordered some ecdysten from thermo life as suggested by Randy Lane. when i get home later this morning, i will probably go straight to the porch and sit there for a couple days waiting for it to show up! ha ha. seriously, though, there sure are a lot of challenges in this post to biotest to make this product–people seem to really like this product. i will definitely post my results in another month or so and let you guys know what kind of progress i make while on this supp. i’m sure if it goes well, i will join the consensus and beg and plead for biotest to improve this product–maybe add it to the new&improved methoxy-7 when it comes out, if the cost isn’t too comprimised. it would be very interesting to see what they could do with their advanced delivery systems and all. (to Mixelflick) hey, what was that “home brew” you mentioned in your post a few days ago? does this involve the ecdy or something else? (to Timbo) yeah, i think you found the two other products i found…ragnacrin and mumie. one website i found sold retibol for $20 by itself and tried to sell the “3-pack” including the other two products for $60 or so. neither atletika nor velocitynutrition has any record of these other products. maybe someone is stealing the retibol name? btw, the labels in the pictures even look different from the real retibol…either way unless someone spends the money to hook up with this product, i guess we’ll never know. --rush7