Eastern USA SHW Champ Max Charles = WTF?

Training Bodybuilding
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[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Professor X wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
Professor X wrote:
1morerep wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:No offense taken at all. I’ve never personally seen anyone bench more than 405 for a few [4-6 I’d guess] and their form was horrible. Those who are benching 700+ do so with a bench shirt.

I belive there’s only been 2 men to ever do that much raw [I could be wrong]. The preacher curl claim is even wackier. I can all but gaurantee we never see the video 'cause this dude ducks out for some bullshit reason.

Once again, he changed his story multiple times as he was telling it and thus far has some very unimpressive lifts recorded. All that adds up to this guy talking out his ass.

just curious WF… if someone claimed he bench pressed 405 lbs for 20 reps, would you think it believable?

This guy has clearly only lifted around weak individuals. Ronnie Coleman is days/weeks away from a contest in nearly every video of him. That is what made people take notice of the weights he is lifting.

That means it would be foolish to assume he couldn’t lift even more than that if that is all he trained for and he was at his heaviest off season weight.

405lbs didn’t use to be so “unbelievable”.

For crying out loud, we’re not talking about 405 we’re talking about 495. We’r also not talking about a max, we’re talking about repping it for 12. Also, I’m not saying you can’t prof but I’d be interested in a vid of you benching 450 for 8.

The vid is in my profile and it is of me on an HS machine with no counter weight doing 10 45lb plates for 8 reps. I will pm it to you. I have no need to make shit up on a forum to impress you.

If I can do that much and if I hit 405 sweveral years ago, how is it so unbelievable that someone carrying that much more muscle than me could do 495? This isn’t powerlifting so hopefully you aren’t clueless enough to think it only counts if they lock out or touch their chest.

So you machine benched 450 for 8. That’s cool, and impressive [I sure as shit can’t do it] but not a “real” bench. I didn’t think you were bullshitting, which is why I said what I did. I fully understand constant tension, but not touching ones chest makes the lift easier, and if his bench is anything like his preachers his 12 reps at 495 is holding it a half inch from lockout for 12 seconds with his ass 6" off the bench.[/quote]

It isn’t a “machine bench” because it is plate loaded and has NO COUNTERWEIGHT. I already wrote this. This means the difference would be that it is hinged and not free moving.

Lifting that much on free weights on a weekly basis becomes dangerous if you have no one to spot you at all. Therefore, the hs machines are the best option. If you still don’t get it, that means all of that 450lbs is being lifted by me.

Further, I NEVER touch my chest and that may be why it is 53" right now.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

It isn’t a “machine bench” because it is plate loaded and has NO COUNTERWEIGHT. I already wrote this. This means the difference would be that it is hinged and not free moving. Lifting that much on free weights on a weekly basis becomes dangerous if you have no one to spot you at all.

Therefore, the hs machines are the best option. If you still don’t get it, that means all of that 450lbs is being lifted by me.

Further, I NEVER touch my chest and that may be why it is 53" right now.[/quote]

Prof, on that same machine I can bench “315” for 4. I’ve never done more than 315 for a single on the barbell bench press. I’m not taking anything away from you as that is impressive, but there is not a direct carryover and we both know it.

I’d be inclined to believe that he can “bench” 495 in the manner in which you displayed, but there’s no way he’s flat barbell benching 495 for 12. NO WAY.

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[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

Prof, on that same machine I can bench “315” for 4. I’ve never done more than 315 for a single on the barbell bench press. I’m not taking anything away from you as that is impressive, but there is not a direct carryover and we both know it. I’d be inclined to believe that he can “bench” 495 in the manner in which you displayed, but there’s no way he’s flat barbell benching 495 for 12. NO WAY.[/quote]

He never claimed there was a direct carry over. He is saying… if HE can do that much… what makes you think somebody much larger COULDN’T do more? The man weighs almost as much as toney freeman… in contest shape… and is what? 6’ tall? why is it so hard to believe he could bench 495 for 12? do you not realize how huge he is? or how strong he’d have to be to build that much muscle?

I know I’m recycling what others have said… but still. Come on man.

I weigh ~125… I’m 5’2" and I can bench 200 x 3. I’m SMALL! Why couldn’t somebody who weighs almost 3 times as much as me… in CONTEST condition… bench 495 x 12?

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[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
The following graphic illustrates the various steps toward the onset of an overtraining state as well as the recovery period needed to get out of these different levels.
[/quote]

Couldn’t see the graphic. Did you forget to upload it or is it just my browser playing tricks with me?

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[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Dirty Gerdy wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
Professor X wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
Professor X wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
Professor X wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
I’m sorry, this guy is impressively built and undoubtedly strong, but he’s also completely full of shit.

He changed his story about how much he eats AS HE WAS TELLING IT and claims repping 350lb preachers when he was getting 10’s with 285lbs less [I know it was the day after a show and he was weaker, but c’mon]. Anyone who believes this is an idiot. I feel the same about Lockett.

You read this thread and came to the conclusion that the rest of us thought he looks like that from one meal a day?

As far as his strength goes, until we see him in his off season when he’s 30lbs heavier, calling him a liar on that may just be jumping the gun. 300lbs LEAN is nothing to play with.

I have no idea what ya’ll are thinking, and would never claim to. I do however have an idea that he’s outright lying. Dude is big and lean for sure, but with the form I saw and the weights he used I doubt he’s really benching 495 for 12 or preacher curling 350 for reps.

I can do 450lbs for 8 and this dude is WAY bigger than me. Why would it be impossible for him to do 495? You haven’t even seen pics of this guy when he is 30lbs heavier. That’s almost as heavy as Ronnie Coleman.

…And Ronnie-who’s maybe the strongest bodybuilder of all time-benches 405 for 12.

You are judging someone’s max strength by what they work out with for several reps to build muscle? You don’t think Coleman could bench more than that? This guy has never even competed before and has simply been working on getting bigger and stronger for 10 years. His current size outdoes where Ronnie was at the same age.

We’re not talking about max strength, we’re talking about strength in the 10-12 range and this guy claims a full plate per side more than Coleman. There’s a vid of Coleman doing 495 for 4-5 then failing and I have a hard time believing a guy who claims to eat maybe once,

no wait twice, alright three times but just beans and rice no meat, oh yea and chicken but just chicken can get that weight for 7-8 more.

a lot of the ‘vids’ of ronnie you see are of him a few weeks out from the O or another competition. I know of 4 guys at my gym who can rep 405 on bench in the 8-12 range. Shoot there is vids of Branch Warren getting 6+ reps with that weight on incline press.

500lbs bench for 8+ reps coming from somebody who weighs probably 320+lbs in the off season isn’t that unbelievable. It’s a lot of weight and there are probably few people who can do it, but I don’t think its impossible.

Granted his eating habits and his story do sound strange…why would he lie?

Either way I’m sure we will see videos and stuff from this guy in the near future.

DG

What do you mean why lie? Same reason Wilt Chamberlain claimed to sleep with over 20,000 women. To sound cool. And, to me, claiming to bench 500lb 12 times is almost as absurd a claim as Wilts.[/quote]

I once saw a no name “pro wrestler” bench 5 plates 25 times. I’ve seen guys who weight 200 lbs bench 4 plates for several reps. Most of you guys have obviously not been around very strong people before.

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MY friend who I worked with benched 480, and he’s only been training for 2 years and is not on gear and eats like total shit! He sits at 320, and just lifts for fun… some people are freaks. I dont find it hard to believe a black (not wanting the genetics argument to start), gear using monster can bench 495 for reps.

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vid: Joel Miller at Golds in Clifton Park NY, 480 lbs bench press - YouTube

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[quote]krazykoukides wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:

Prof, on that same machine I can bench “315” for 4. I’ve never done more than 315 for a single on the barbell bench press. I’m not taking anything away from you as that is impressive, but there is not a direct carryover and we both know it. I’d be inclined to believe that he can “bench” 495 in the manner in which you displayed, but there’s no way he’s flat barbell benching 495 for 12. NO WAY.

He never claimed there was a direct carry over. He is saying… if HE can do that much… what makes you think somebody much larger COULDN’T do more? The man weighs almost as much as toney freeman… in contest shape… and is what? 6’ tall? why is it so hard to believe he could bench 495 for 12? do you not realize how huge he is? or how strong he’d have to be to build that much muscle?

I know I’m recycling what others have said… but still. Come on man.

I weigh ~125… I’m 5’2" and I can bench 200 x 3. I’m SMALL! Why couldn’t somebody who weighs almost 3 times as much as me… in CONTEST condition… bench 495 x 12?[/quote]

The guy is a walking continent and as that was obviously his goal who cares how much exactly he benches for how many reps? If he only does partials or is lying through his teeth does that mean he’s small now?

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
krazykoukides wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:

Prof, on that same machine I can bench “315” for 4. I’ve never done more than 315 for a single on the barbell bench press. I’m not taking anything away from you as that is impressive, but there is not a direct carryover and we both know it. I’d be inclined to believe that he can “bench” 495 in the manner in which you displayed, but there’s no way he’s flat barbell benching 495 for 12. NO WAY.

He never claimed there was a direct carry over. He is saying… if HE can do that much… what makes you think somebody much larger COULDN’T do more? The man weighs almost as much as toney freeman… in contest shape… and is what? 6’ tall? why is it so hard to believe he could bench 495 for 12? do you not realize how huge he is? or how strong he’d have to be to build that much muscle?

I know I’m recycling what others have said… but still. Come on man.

I weigh ~125… I’m 5’2" and I can bench 200 x 3. I’m SMALL! Why couldn’t somebody who weighs almost 3 times as much as me… in CONTEST condition… bench 495 x 12?

The guy is a walking continent and as that was obviously his goal who cares how much exactly he benches for how many reps? If he only does partials or is lying through his teeth does that mean he’s small now?[/quote]

Who would question his size? I question his outrageous claims. He’s got nothing to prove to me or anyone else, but when you make ridiculous claims and backpedel mid story people are gonna call you on it. He got called on it and it remains to be seen if he’ll even show up, let alone perform these superhuman feats.

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
krazykoukides wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:

Prof, on that same machine I can bench “315” for 4. I’ve never done more than 315 for a single on the barbell bench press. I’m not taking anything away from you as that is impressive, but there is not a direct carryover and we both know it. I’d be inclined to believe that he can “bench” 495 in the manner in which you displayed, but there’s no way he’s flat barbell benching 495 for 12. NO WAY.

He never claimed there was a direct carry over. He is saying… if HE can do that much… what makes you think somebody much larger COULDN’T do more? The man weighs almost as much as toney freeman… in contest shape… and is what? 6’ tall? why is it so hard to believe he could bench 495 for 12? do you not realize how huge he is? or how strong he’d have to be to build that much muscle?

I know I’m recycling what others have said… but still. Come on man.

I weigh ~125… I’m 5’2" and I can bench 200 x 3. I’m SMALL! Why couldn’t somebody who weighs almost 3 times as much as me… in CONTEST condition… bench 495 x 12?

The guy is a walking continent and as that was obviously his goal who cares how much exactly he benches for how many reps? If he only does partials or is lying through his teeth does that mean he’s small now?[/quote]

Hey dood!!! bodybuilding is ALL about the numbers man…I think 300 is his number…and it’s followed by lbs and then the number thats probably single digit bodyfat. :stuck_out_tongue: lol jk

nice post…to be honest who really gives a crap how much he lifts or how he does it, it’s how big his chest gets from doing it. The argument of benching that much is just to prove if he is lying or not. Whatever it is he is doing is apparently working.

only reason I want to see him do it is because that’s a site to see. lol :stuck_out_tongue:

DG

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Is it possible he was nervous and misunderstood the question, or misspoke? I don’t understand why everyone is getting so caught up with the numbers, this is the BODYBUILDING section, who gives a fuck what you can lift if you look like shit and vice versa. If you get big enough that you look good, you are more than likely going to be able to at least put up respectable weights. Alot of you all just sound like you are jealous so you’re callin BS on this guy to make yourselves feel better.

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After watching the videos again, I noticed that he says he benches 5 plates for “8-10 reps”, not 12 reps.

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[quote]dwall33 wrote:
Is it possible he was nervous and misunderstood the question, or misspoke? I don’t understand why everyone is getting so caught up with the numbers, this is the BODYBUILDING section, who gives a fuck what you can lift if you look like shit and vice versa. If you get big enough that you look good, you are more than likely going to be able to at least put up respectable weights. Alot of you all just sound like you are jealous so you’re callin BS on this guy to make yourselves feel better.[/quote]

Bingo. They also don’t seem to get that it will also make sure they never reach any of those numbers themselves. I also don’t get why people are picking apart every word he said or challenging him to lift. This guy isn’t a politician. I also have no doubt he will be more careful about what he says in the future simply because people are idiots.

This guy has achieved what most can’t. He never competed before and managed, ON HIS FIRST TIME OUT, to get everyone talking about him. That is EXACTLY where he needs to be.

It sure as hell beats all of these little guys running around bragging about how they have competed when they are nowhere near big enough to actually get anyone talking at all.

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[quote]1morerep wrote:

just curious WF… if someone claimed he bench pressed 405 lbs for 20 reps, would you think it believable? [/quote]

I’m not WF, but I dunno man… LDC from IM did 28 full reps with 315 (PL style)…

He’s not exactly at the top of the genetic spectrum, but he has 23 inch arms (largely due to Levrone-sized triceps)…
20 Reps with 405 seems too high for any bodybuilder I know, but maybe some guys in the upper echelons of powerlifting can do that…

As for this whole “does he lie or not” thing… The guy is a freak, he can eat virtually nothing and grow to 320 pounds off that. There aren’t as many of these guys around as people think, but imo there’s no way to tell until we pin him down and force him to demonstrate that shit for us.

Besides, I bet he did half-reps/ 3 quarter reps as a bodybuilder and also used BB form… Doesn’t really matter anyway now, does it? It’s not like he’s trying to claim an elite total or something.

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[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

There’s a huge difference between 4-5 and 12, as I already stated.[/quote]

Ronnie was how close to the O? There’s a difference between 340+ lbs in the off-season and whatever his near-competition weight is with tons of cardio added and what-have-you.

Besides, it’s not like these guys are using legitimate PL competition form… This is not the strength-sports forum.

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[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:

There’s a huge difference between 4-5 and 12, as I already stated.

Ronnie was how close to the O? There’s a difference between 340+ lbs in the off-season and whatever his near-competition weight is with tons of cardio added and what-have-you.

Besides, it’s not like these guys are using legitimate PL competition form… This is not the strength-sports forum.
[/quote]

It has to be some lame attempt to make themselves feel better. The jackass betting thousands of dollars takes it to an extreme.

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[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

20 Reps with 405 seems too high for any bodybuilder I know, but maybe some guys in the upper echelons of powerlifting can do that…

[/quote]

That’s because most bodybuilders are trying to maximize the size of fast twitch muscle fibers above all else and those tire quickly, especially using that much weight. 450lbs on that exercise isn’t my “max weight”. That is what I work out with. I stop at 8 reps because I’ve done two other exercises by that point and my muscles have had it.

There have been bodybuilders who seemed to have the ability to train very heavy using very high reps. Roy Calendar (sp?) is one of them. The man would have had the same people here calling him out and claiming it wasn’t true.

I hope those who do have above average potential realize how important it is to train around people MUCH stronger than they are. That is the only way you get over mental hurdles that would have you believe you can’t go very heavy.

The first time I did 405lbs, I worried whether I could actually do it. I was training with two others guys who could and that alone is what made me attempt it despite fearing the bar crushing my sternum.

The moment you accept that you can NOT do something, you might as well give up trying. Your mind will make sure you never get close whether you have the potential or not.

What THIS guy can specifically lift doesn’t even matter. You don’t get to 300lbs of LEAN mass at 6 feet tall without being one genetically gifted and strong son of a bitch who can outlift just about everyone talking shit. Whether that is 495lbs or 405, it still more than any of them can lift.

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[quote]dijo wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
The following graphic illustrates the various steps toward the onset of an overtraining state as well as the recovery period needed to get out of these different levels.

Couldn’t see the graphic. Did you forget to upload it or is it just my browser playing tricks with me?

[/quote]

It was a cut and paste from one of my article

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[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Were his arms freakishly disproportionate in size? How would you explain that kind of “isolated” strength? Tendon and/or muscle attachment? And for the record, if a 173lb golfer could close grip bench 400+ lbs I’d probably give up on lifting.[/quote]

He did have some biceps development, but nothing that looked like they could lift 205lbs!

Levers and tendinious attachement as well as a high ratio of FT fibers would be my diagnostic.

BTW, he was also a college baseball player so it’s not like he was totally unathletic.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

20 Reps with 405 seems too high for any bodybuilder I know, but maybe some guys in the upper echelons of powerlifting can do that…

That’s because most bodybuilders are trying to maximize the size of fast twitch muscle fibers above all else and those tire quickly, especially using that much weight. 450lbs on that exercise isn’t my “max weight”. That is what I work out with. I stop at 8 reps because I’ve done two other exercises by that point and my muscles have had it.

[/quote] I know man. No real reason to do 20 reps on the bench in bbing anyway. I’d rather lift heavier… Exceptions for those 20 reppers would be bigger quad exercises and kroc rows, but that’s about it for me with the high-rep exercises.[quote]

There have been bodybuilders who seemed to have the ability to train very heavy using very high reps. Roy Calendar (sp?) [/quote] Callender :wink: [quote] is one of them. The man would have had the same people here calling him out and claiming it wasn’t true.
[/quote] I just remembered… Doesn’t Jonnie jackson do 20 reps with 405 or something like that? Markus Rühl mentioned that once…

[quote]
I hope those who do have above average potential realize how important it is to train around people MUCH stronger than they are. That is the only way you get over mental hurdles that would have you believe you can’t go very heavy.

The first time I did 405lbs, I worried whether I could actually do it. I was training with two others guys who could and that alone is what made me attempt it despite fearing the bar crushing my sternum.

The moment you accept that you can NOT do something, you might as well give up trying. Your mind will make sure you never get close whether you have the potential or not.

What THIS guy can specifically lift doesn’t even matter. You don’t get to 300lbs of LEAN mass at 6 feet tall without being one genetically gifted and strong son of a bitch who can outlift just about everyone talking shit. Whether that is 495lbs or 405, it still more than any of them can lift[/quote] for reps[quote].[/quote]