Is the guy who takes the elevator to the 88th floor instead of the stairs lazy? Or smart?
Fair enough if you take 8-10 years to reach your natural potential and get fucking strong, more props to you for having the patience, you certainly get my respect.
If someone decides to run two decent cycles and cut that time down to 6 months then whats wrong with that, to me that’s sensible.
And think about this for a minute, if you are natural, then your joints and tendons are going to take a hammering. Chances are you are going to pick up some kind of major injury at some point, or wear your joints out to some extent. With the proper drugs, you will find it much much more difficult to get injured, esp if you throw in GH. You can get to the same level of strength you could have naturally without the wear and tear you accumulated doing it the hard way.
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
And think about this for a minute, if you are natural, then your joints and tendons are going to take a hammering. Chances are you are going to pick up some kind of major injury at some point, or wear your joints out to some extent. With the proper drugs, you will find it much much more difficult to get injured, esp if you throw in GH. You can get to the same level of strength you could have naturally without the wear and tear you accumulated doing it the hard way.[/quote]
I’ve actually heard the exact opposite from people who used.
there was no jealousy in my comment
I am just a naturally competitive person even if I don’t compete
we all compare sizes so the natties on here saying they don’t care are full of it
I have seen a friend surpass me thanks to roids
but he is paying with bacne, thinning hairline and overall looking like he’s 40
taking it pretty much turns you into a drug addict
after a couple of cycles you realize you can’t/wont train without it and you become dependent
[quote]ronald1919 wrote:
there was no jealousy in my comment
I am just a naturally competitive person even if I don’t compete
we all compare sizes so the natties on here saying they don’t care are full of it
I have seen a friend surpass me thanks to roids
but he is paying with bacne, thinning hairline and overall looking like he’s 40
taking it pretty much turns you into a drug addict
after a couple of cycles you realize you can’t/wont train without it and you become dependent
[/quote]
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
For the guys who take steroids - do you feel better on cycle as compared to off cycle? Not physique related, but your actual quality of life?[/quote]
yes, this is why i stopped coming off… during pct and off cycle i was emotionally unstable, covered in acne… and very depressed (aas kinda fucked me up in that regard, as i didnt experience any of this before i took them)
so now, i never come off… just lower my dosage closer to what my body naturally producees, to allow my organs and health indicators to recover
my skin has never been clearer… im FAR more even-tempered than i ever have been, and i feel a general sense of contentment (as i know that my body is in a constant state of anabolism)
[quote]ronald1919 wrote:
there was no jealousy in my comment
I am just a naturally competitive person even if I don’t compete
we all compare sizes so the natties on here saying they don’t care are full of it
I have seen a friend surpass me thanks to roids
but he is paying with bacne, thinning hairline and overall looking like he’s 40
taking it pretty much turns you into a drug addict
after a couple of cycles you realize you can’t/wont train without it and you become dependent
[/quote]
[quote]zraw wrote:
Im pretty sure someone using low level test only (lets say 500mg) could reach his "maximum natty potential and a bit.more… if you can progress with natural test levels why couldnt you with something that stays above that, even if that level.stays stable and isnt increased every “cycle”
Are natties ever satisfied with their look? No?
So.if someone wants to reach a “top.of the line” natty look but faster why couldnt he use for that?
If he wants to go beyond that well in this case the.poor soul was doomed anyways
I think…?[/quote]
500mg of exogenous test would put the average joe WAY beyond natural production… the human male produces the equivalent of 50mg of testosterone a week… lol
500mg would certainly get him beyond his natural potential… rather quickly id imagine… assuming diet and training are on point[/quote]
Oh I know I was just kinda saying how the “ull need to.keep upping the dose to progress” argument was silly as its true only when you are past you “natty” potential, imo
[/quote]
zraw serious question: Is there not some kind of minimum age where this is a good idea though? I mean is it worse for someone in their early 20’s to jump on a consistent 500mg as opposed to a 30 year old?[/quote]
Im not really discussing “good idea vs bad idea here” as much as im discussing “making a choice you understand and not be judged for it”
The guy that would be in his early 20’s and wants to run a few cycles needs to understand there are certain risks associated with this… could be fertility problem, could be forever lowered T levels, etc
A guy wanting to “stay on” (blast/cruise) forever might as well start asap
From a lot of forum posts on pretty much all forums its easy to see that blasting/cruising doesnt = infertility and many guys do still have children
Just look at Evan Centopani for an easy example… the guy wasnt doing the recommended “TIME ON = TIME OFF” i can tell you that lol
if you are going to juice (at any age really), be prepared to be on trt for the rest of your life once you hit a certain age… it becomes almost an inevitability.
having said that, it actually IS better to juice in your 20’s than it is in your 30’s… why? as ive said before…
-easier to recover health indicators
-less side-effects
-your life is probably going to be more complicated in your 30’s than it is right now
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
For the guys who take steroids - do you feel better on cycle as compared to off cycle? Not physique related, but your actual quality of life?[/quote]
I’ve never used but I would imagine that you feel great when you’re on lol.
Increased strength.
Increased size.
Loss of body fat.
Increased libido.
Increased vascularity.
Increased ability to recover.
Sounds friggin awesome lol.
I would also imagine that you would feel like your normal/before self when you come off but that feeling this way, which you always accepted as normal, would suck after experiencing things from the other side.
But guys with some actual experience with AAS use can comment because I could be way off in left field with my thoughts lol
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
For the guys who take steroids - do you feel better on cycle as compared to off cycle? Not physique related, but your actual quality of life?[/quote]
I’ve never used but I would imagine that you feel great when you’re on lol.
Increased strength.
Increased size.
Loss of body fat.
Increased libido.
Increased vascularity.
Increased ability to recover.
Sounds friggin awesome lol.
I would also imagine that you would feel like your normal/before self when you come off but that feeling this way, which you always accepted as normal, would suck after experiencing things from the other side.
But guys with some actual experience with AAS use can comment because I could be way off in left field with my thoughts lol[/quote]
some do feel normal if they choose to run pct and take a break… others dont… they are what we refer to as “pct crash and burn” 'ers
From a lot of forum posts on pretty much all forums its easy to see that blasting/cruising doesnt = infertility and many guys do still have children
[/quote]
Can you post any link for that? That’s THE only thing preventing me from hoping on forever…
Fuck I’d just stay on tren forever if I could
Why is it a problem for anyone if someone uses gear to reach a goal that could be attainable with 2-3yrs of hard work but doesnt want to wait that long and/or work as hard
If someone is 150lbs and decides to run a cycle 3months after starting training to get to a lean 175lbs faster why should ppl tell.him.he’s an idiot?
Is it cause it takes away from the “hard work” other guys have put in to make those gains?
Its not “cheating” as this doesnt affect anyone else
Soooo
Why am.I seeing so many newbs get trashed when they sah they will run a cycle (and they arent trashed because of the health aspect but more so with the “you could reach that natty” “learn to train” “learn to eat”)
What if one doesnt want to put in much effort but still wants to lool good naked? Do ppl feel that you need to really “earn” your body? Is that.the prpblem?[/quote]
I can’t see what’s so wrong with it in the context you speak of here. After all, MANY pros started juicing after only 6 months to a year of training. Jay and Dorian et. al didn’t wait much.
[quote]zraw wrote:
If I won 1million dollar at the loto it means I wont have "earned"it… this doesnt mean I wouldnt appreciate what I get
Why would it be different when it pertains to the body?
Anyone going off will.lose gains wether the training/nutrition is crap or top notch… ull just make.more gains with the perfect trainin/nutritionn… wether you use or not[/quote]
Zwraw, when would you consider ready?
Let’s say the persons diet, training, and nutrition is spot on but has been training lets say a year, good genetics, good physique, low BF.and a responsible mature adult that’s not just sticking a needle in his ass with no guidance.
Would you consider that guy ready ?
Just curious cause the topic of this thread stood out and I’m on the side that agrees with you. Yet if had no experience with gear at all.
Maybe thats a tuff question to ask or doesn’t really make sense. Just curious.
[quote]zraw wrote:
If I won 1million dollar at the loto it means I wont have "earned"it… this doesnt mean I wouldnt appreciate what I get
Why would it be different when it pertains to the body?
Anyone going off will.lose gains wether the training/nutrition is crap or top notch… ull just make.more gains with the perfect trainin/nutritionn… wether you use or not[/quote]
Zwraw, when would you consider ready?
Let’s say the persons diet, training, and nutrition is spot on but has been training lets say a year, good genetics, good physique, low BF.and a responsible mature adult that’s not just sticking a needle in his ass with no guidance.
Would you consider that guy ready ?
Just curious cause the topic of this thread stood out and I’m on the side that agrees with you. Yet if had no experience with gear at all.
Maybe thats a tuff question to ask or doesn’t really make sense. Just curious. [/quote]
Well i guess reading the entire thread before askin woulda helped answer my ???
Can you post any link for that? That’s THE only thing preventing me from hoping on forever…
Fuck I’d just stay on tren forever if I could
[/quote]
there are no documented cases of aas use (and even long-term abuse I.E. staying on for a decade at high doses) causing permanent sterility… every case of infertility has been reversed.
trust me, i researched it extensively as i was in the same boat as you are in currently
Why is it a problem for anyone if someone uses gear to reach a goal that could be attainable with 2-3yrs of hard work but doesnt want to wait that long and/or work as hard
If someone is 150lbs and decides to run a cycle 3months after starting training to get to a lean 175lbs faster why should ppl tell.him.he’s an idiot?
Is it cause it takes away from the “hard work” other guys have put in to make those gains?
Its not “cheating” as this doesnt affect anyone else
Soooo
Why am.I seeing so many newbs get trashed when they sah they will run a cycle (and they arent trashed because of the health aspect but more so with the “you could reach that natty” “learn to train” “learn to eat”)
What if one doesnt want to put in much effort but still wants to lool good naked? Do ppl feel that you need to really “earn” your body? Is that.the prpblem?[/quote]
If you’re referring to thread I think you’re referring to then I’ll say this. I personally don’t think juicing is stupid. Probably lots of people do. But I think everyone can agree that if someone doesn’t know what they’re doing, then they SHOULD NOT juice yet. That doesn’t mean they should wait a year or 5 years it just means they should get a clue about what they’re doing first. I’ll admit I don’t know a lot about this stuff but I’m gonna guess fucking up your PCT is really bad news.
When shit is stupid its usually obvious. This guys thread that I’m guessing you’re referring to was stupid and most cycles newbs think of are stupid, when all these people post that stuff in a forum and say “what do you think?” the consensus from the responses is going to be “that’s fuckin stupid”
<= Thoughts from a 22yr old! (hopefully this isn’t too long and repeats what everyone says, maybe just skip me haha)
When I first read the thread my initial thoughts about the bashing were pretty simple; people don’t like to give advice to people who just ask for it without putting effort in. Steroids from what I’ve seen are no joke when used wrong, and the people asking for a cycle without any prior real gains probably aren’t going to realize that (at least that’s how my common sense works).
I have nothing with people using though, if I saw someone my age using I may think it’s a semi dumb idea for the possible health effects (even if it’s not true), but I would be very jealous! Same goes for members who have money to buy a variety of tasty foods though…
First off (from my logs, you can tell I don’t even look like I workout for the most part yet) but I absolutely love the idea of steroids and what they could do for me. It always comes down to the side effects first and than price though. Over the past year I feel I’ve seen too many remarks about users looking 15-20yrs older over the course of 2-3yrs, and than there is the remarks about coming off. I personally wouldn’t care much about acne and the likes, but depression and such? I can’t even justify taking adderal for the possible side effects (proven or not). So I opt for safer nootropics now just like I spend money on MAG-10 and the likes.
Anyway, end thoughts…what if a product came out that gave the same results as a standard cycle but it was labeled something like anaconda or plazma, or even a finibar? Hopefully relating back to what Stu said, this would probably change the views on a ton of people! Suddenly, that cheating response and juice monkey answer would probably change real quick!
Last time I checked we’re a community here who likes to look out for one another, at least from time to time. If someone sees a newby starting a cycle out of the blue and the poster has solid grounds to accuse them of being uneducated, lazy or any other unflattering adjective that pertains to bodybuilding, then you have less ground to call out that person than the person has to the person starting the cycle.
The players in the scenario most of us here see it as are as follows: you have your cycle starter, A, your intelligent agitator (notice how I said intelligent; two idiots don’t make a right), B, and you (the zraw figure). If A is some young kid or average poster who has given up hope, it would be beneficial to the A to listen to B because at least he has gained an insight of another perspective, therefore placing him in a better position to make a decision. Remember, A is the one who started a thread and is wanting attention (seeking advice) so B is just naturally giving his opinion. Even if A has some kind of steroid log, B’s opinion is nothing more than that, an opinion that A can and probably will ignore.
Where does C come in? Right here. The inherent nature of your stance means you are defending A, but you don’t necessarily know A, or worse-yet, become ignorant to the fact A was the one seeking advice or opening themselves up to third-party criticism.
