185 was an arbitrary number guys.
C’mon, you know that.
You’re just poking holes.
[quote]iVoodoo wrote:
[quote]optheta wrote:
[quote]iVoodoo wrote:
Like I said in the other thread, nobody gives a fuck if some 185lb kid used chemical assistance to reach his current level.
We care when that kid starts to open his mouth.
If it took steroids to get you to 185lbs, you don’t know training, and should never give advice, especially to the majority of us who are non-aided.
Nobody judges a silent man.
[/quote]
This is bullshit. and pulling a random ass number with out giving details is retarded, 185lbs can LOOK DAM good.[/quote]
The point is, if you haven’t done anything remarkable, regardless of how you did the unremarkable, don’t give advice.[/quote]
What is remarkable?
[quote]optheta wrote:
[quote]iVoodoo wrote:
[quote]optheta wrote:
[quote]iVoodoo wrote:
Like I said in the other thread, nobody gives a fuck if some 185lb kid used chemical assistance to reach his current level.
We care when that kid starts to open his mouth.
If it took steroids to get you to 185lbs, you don’t know training, and should never give advice, especially to the majority of us who are non-aided.
Nobody judges a silent man.
[/quote]
This is bullshit. and pulling a random ass number with out giving details is retarded, 185lbs can LOOK DAM good.[/quote]
The point is, if you haven’t done anything remarkable, regardless of how you did the unremarkable, don’t give advice.[/quote]
What is remarkable?[/quote]
That’s up to you.
But, I suppose I see your point.
People all have different definitions of what is and isn’t remarkable, and hence we should all feel free to give and take advice as we please.
Bad info is bad info, regardless of natural status.
[quote]iVoodoo wrote:
185 was an arbitrary number guys.
C’mon, you know that.
You’re just poking holes.
[/quote]
But you can’t throw out an arbitrary number like 185. Lots of guys look fantastic around that weight.
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]iVoodoo wrote:
185 was an arbitrary number guys.
C’mon, you know that.
You’re just poking holes.
[/quote]
But you can’t throw out an arbitrary number like 185. Lots of guys look fantastic around that weight.[/quote]
Or can I because a lot of guys don’t?
Jk, lets pretend I said “185 at 19% BF,” or some other more accurate imaginary figure. Lol.
[quote]iVoodoo wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]iVoodoo wrote:
185 was an arbitrary number guys.
C’mon, you know that.
You’re just poking holes.
[/quote]
But you can’t throw out an arbitrary number like 185. Lots of guys look fantastic around that weight.[/quote]
Or can I because a lot of guys don’t?
Jk, lets pretend I said “185 at 19% BF,” or some other more accurate imaginary figure. Lol.[/quote]
More accurate imaginary figures are better 
IMO, the problem is the lack of knowledge. I have been training 1 1/2 years now and the first year barely counts as I am just now starting to feel like I know my body. So people are trying to save the kid from things like wasting money, and risking injury. BTW im 21, and don’t use. However I will begin using within the next year probably. Once I feel like I truly know my body and how to read it…just think its a good idea to learn what works for you, and learn how to listen to your body in regards to fatigue, or what exercises work best for you, what type of diet, etc. Keep in mind my ultimate goal is to some day go pro. If your goal is simply looking big or shredded for the beach, then do whatever the f*ck you want lol
As a general matter, I don’t think that anyone under 30 should be messing with the stuff, at least in the U.S. The simple fact is that if you are reading this and you are a 20-something who is either a college student or working in a gym, you very probably do not have the life experience or perspective to appreciate the physiological or legal decisions that you are making.
For me personally, I’m just finishing investing more than 150k in a professional degree allowing me to make a very good living for myself. Using AAS, because it’s illegal in the US, would jeopardize that investment, even if minimally.
To your OP, zraw, I would say this: only those who plan on making training a consistent part of their long-term life plans will really be the ones to benefit from aas, but those people should recognize that it’s a marathon, not a sprint, and that AAS will always be there if they choose that path down the line.
[quote]The3Commandments wrote:
As a general matter, I don’t think that anyone under 30 should be messing with the stuff, at least in the U.S. The simple fact is that if you are reading this and you are a 20-something who is either a college student or working in a gym, you very probably do not have the life experience or perspective to appreciate the physiological or legal decisions that you are making.
For me personally, I’m just finishing investing more than 150k in a professional degree allowing me to make a very good living for myself. Using AAS, because it’s illegal in the US, would jeopardize that investment, even if minimally.
To your OP, zraw, I would say this: only those who plan on making training a consistent part of their long-term life plans will really be the ones to benefit from aas, but those people should recognize that it’s a marathon, not a sprint, and that AAS will always be there if they choose that path down the line.[/quote]
While this is true being big in your early 20’s is so much more fun then in your 30’s.
I don’t know much about steroids, etc., but wouldn’t it be wise to build up tendon strength and proper form before adding them? Build a foundation to work with first. Have the first story of your house before you add the 2nd…
I don’t know… What do you guys think?
[quote]optheta wrote:
[quote]The3Commandments wrote:
As a general matter, I don’t think that anyone under 30 should be messing with the stuff, at least in the U.S. The simple fact is that if you are reading this and you are a 20-something who is either a college student or working in a gym, you very probably do not have the life experience or perspective to appreciate the physiological or legal decisions that you are making.
For me personally, I’m just finishing investing more than 150k in a professional degree allowing me to make a very good living for myself. Using AAS, because it’s illegal in the US, would jeopardize that investment, even if minimally.
To your OP, zraw, I would say this: only those who plan on making training a consistent part of their long-term life plans will really be the ones to benefit from aas, but those people should recognize that it’s a marathon, not a sprint, and that AAS will always be there if they choose that path down the line.[/quote]
While this is true being big in your early 20’s is so much more fun then in your 30’s. [/quote]
also, the older you get, the longer it takes to heal… I.E. lipids, liver enzymes… etc
and the side effects tend to be way worse
[quote]jonmb11 wrote:
I don’t know much about steroids, etc., but wouldn’t it be wise to build up tendon strength and proper form before adding them? Build a foundation to work with first. Have the first story of your house before you add the 2nd…
I don’t know… What do you guys think?[/quote]
yes, as aas tends to have degenerative effects on tendons and ligaments… you have to be really careful
As a response to the first post in this thread, i dont think its a good idea
to use aas to reach your goal earlier because when you walk around at 175
lean for a few months you’ll get used to it and you have to up the dose. This
will go on and on and will force you to use higher doses up to the point
where you will suffer some serious side effects. Long story short: what is the
last time you heard someone using steroids or anyone.whos serious into lifting say: i like the way i look now and
have no desire to improve? Probably never
[quote]giedie wrote:
As a response to the first post in this thread, i dont think its a good idea
to use aas to reach your goal earlier because when you walk around at 175
lean for a few months you’ll get used to it and you have to up the dose. This
will go on and on and will force you to use higher doses up to the point
where you will suffer some serious side effects. [/quote]
tell us about the cycles you have run?
Im pretty sure someone using low level test only (lets say 500mg) could reach his "maximum natty potential and a bit.more… if you can progress with natural test levels why couldnt you with something that stays above that, even if that level.stays stable and isnt increased every “cycle”
Are natties ever satisfied with their look? No?
So.if someone wants to reach a “top.of the line” natty look but faster why couldnt he use for that?
If he wants to go beyond that well in this case the.poor soul was doomed anyways
I think…?
[quote]giedie wrote:
As a response to the first post in this thread, i dont think its a good idea
to use aas to reach your goal earlier because when you walk around at 175
lean for a few months you’ll get used to it and you have to up the dose. This
will go on and on and will force you to use higher doses up to the point
where you will suffer some serious side effects. Long story short: what is the
last time you heard someone using steroids or anyone.whos serious into lifting say: i like the way i look now and
have no desire to improve? Probably never[/quote]
wut…
[quote]zraw wrote:
Im pretty sure someone using low level test only (lets say 500mg) could reach his "maximum natty potential and a bit.more… if you can progress with natural test levels why couldnt you with something that stays above that, even if that level.stays stable and isnt increased every “cycle”
Are natties ever satisfied with their look? No?
So.if someone wants to reach a “top.of the line” natty look but faster why couldnt he use for that?
If he wants to go beyond that well in this case the.poor soul was doomed anyways
I think…?[/quote]
500mg of exogenous test would put the average joe WAY beyond natural production… the human male produces the equivalent of 50mg of testosterone a week… lol
500mg would certainly get him beyond his natural potential… rather quickly id imagine… assuming diet and training are on point
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
Im pretty sure someone using low level test only (lets say 500mg) could reach his "maximum natty potential and a bit.more… if you can progress with natural test levels why couldnt you with something that stays above that, even if that level.stays stable and isnt increased every “cycle”
Are natties ever satisfied with their look? No?
So.if someone wants to reach a “top.of the line” natty look but faster why couldnt he use for that?
If he wants to go beyond that well in this case the.poor soul was doomed anyways
I think…?[/quote]
500mg of exogenous test would put the average joe WAY beyond natural production… the human male produces the equivalent of 50mg of testosterone a week… lol
500mg would certainly get him beyond his natural potential… rather quickly id imagine… assuming diet and training are on point[/quote]
Oh I know I was just kinda saying how the “ull need to.keep upping the dose to progress” argument was silly as its true only when you are past you “natty” potential, imo
[quote]zraw wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
Im pretty sure someone using low level test only (lets say 500mg) could reach his "maximum natty potential and a bit.more… if you can progress with natural test levels why couldnt you with something that stays above that, even if that level.stays stable and isnt increased every “cycle”
Are natties ever satisfied with their look? No?
So.if someone wants to reach a “top.of the line” natty look but faster why couldnt he use for that?
If he wants to go beyond that well in this case the.poor soul was doomed anyways
I think…?[/quote]
500mg of exogenous test would put the average joe WAY beyond natural production… the human male produces the equivalent of 50mg of testosterone a week… lol
500mg would certainly get him beyond his natural potential… rather quickly id imagine… assuming diet and training are on point[/quote]
Oh I know I was just kinda saying how the “ull need to.keep upping the dose to progress” argument was silly as its true only when you are past you “natty” potential, imo
[/quote]
zraw serious question: Is there not some kind of minimum age where this is a good idea though? I mean is it worse for someone in their early 20’s to jump on a consistent 500mg as opposed to a 30 year old?
As someone who is pushing 40 and who loves to train and train hard, I think the biggest benefit for me
personally would be the improved recovery which in turn would allow me to do more of what I love,
e.g. train hard. I think for the older lifter this benefit shouldn’t be overlooked…