One arm rows or chins - which would help more with building the deadlift?
I actually get more out of heavy Bent Over Rows than anything. But if that’s not an option I’d go with One Arm Rows as long as your DB’s are heavy enough.
look up kroc rows
DB rows do help if your upper back is the issue. I would do them anyways.
Bignate makes a good point. Higher volume DB rows won’t hurt. Working up to a max at 15 to 20+ reps I found really helps not only with upper back strength, but recovery, not to mention grip.
You might want to try heavy bent rows like Modi said too. Everyone’s different and these might just do more for you.
My question for you is, “why can’t you do chins and rows?”
May want to consider heavy t-bar rows?
Double Bodyweight Weighted Chin.
Bodyweight Dumbbell Rows for 20 reps.
Until you get both of these, your Upper Back is weak. Pursue Both. It doesn’t matter if your bodyweight is 135 or 300 right now.
Usually bringing up your Hamstring Strength via Box Squats, various posterior chain exercises with the word ‘hyper’ in them, and Good-Mornings will have more carry-over to your Deadlift than either of these exercises.
Like Synthetickiller said, it’s not an either/or thing. So make everything as strong as possible. And when it comes to the Deadlift, that means you pretty much need to concentrate on everything besides your chest, anterior delts, and triceps.
[quote]FightingScott wrote:
Double Bodyweight Weighted Chin.
Bodyweight Dumbbell Rows for 20 reps.
Until you get both of these, your Upper Back is weak. Pursue Both. It doesn’t matter if your bodyweight is 135 or 300 right now.
[/quote]
I am all for high standards, but how many big guys do you know that can do a bodyweight dumbbell row for 20 reps with good form? Most gyms only have DB’s that go up to 150 or 200 anyway. Since you should be able to double at least your DB Row with the barbell row, that you means you think you should barbell row double bodyweight for 20 reps. I don’t think so. And the double body weight Chin-up goal is too high for anyone over 150 lbs in my opinion. I am not saying it is humanly impossible but I am saying to declare a person weak because they can’t do these things is off target. I don’t consider myself weak and I can’t do either of these things at 215 lbs.
To the OP, Squats, GHR, Good Mornings, and various deads (RDL’s, Rack Pulls below the knee, and deficit deads) will do a lot more to help your pull than working on your lats/upper back in my opinion.
[quote]Tim Henriques wrote:
FightingScott wrote:
Double Bodyweight Weighted Chin.
Bodyweight Dumbbell Rows for 20 reps.
Until you get both of these, your Upper Back is weak. Pursue Both. It doesn’t matter if your bodyweight is 135 or 300 right now.
I am all for high standards, but how many big guys do you know that can do a bodyweight dumbbell row for 20 reps with good form? Most gyms only have DB’s that go up to 150 or 200 anyway. Since you should be able to double at least your DB Row with the barbell row, that you means you think you should barbell row double bodyweight for 20 reps. I don’t think so. And the double body weight Chin-up goal is too high for anyone over 150 lbs in my opinion. I am not saying it is humanly impossible but I am saying to declare a person weak because they can’t do these things is off target. I don’t consider myself weak and I can’t do either of these things at 215 lbs.
To the OP, Squats, GHR, Good Mornings, and various deads (RDL’s, Rack Pulls below the knee, and deficit deads) will do a lot more to help your pull than working on your lats/upper back in my opinion.[/quote]
I can row 100pd dbs for 25+ reps with arm arm with straps, do you think I can do 200 pounds with a barbell for 20+ reps.
No. Your db row SHOULD be >1/2 your bb row.
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
I can row 100pd dbs for 25+ reps with arm arm with straps, do you think I can do 200 pounds with a barbell for 20+ reps.
No. Your db row SHOULD be >1/2 your bb row.[/quote]
Are you being honest with yourself when you say that or can you “kroc” row it.
Your strict bb row should be > your strict db row.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
I can row 100pd dbs for 25+ reps with arm arm with straps, do you think I can do 200 pounds with a barbell for 20+ reps.
No. Your db row SHOULD be >1/2 your bb row.
Are you being honest with yourself when you say that or can you “kroc” row it.
Your strict bb row should be > your strict db row.[/quote]
I don’t agree with that stronghold, I’d say Zep is right. I can be super strict on db rows and row >1/2 of my cheated barbell row.
Same goes for chinning. I can do a chinup bw+55 kg (at 65kg) and can do a one arm chin on each arm.
[quote]Tim Henriques wrote:
FightingScott wrote:
Double Bodyweight Weighted Chin.
Bodyweight Dumbbell Rows for 20 reps.
Until you get both of these, your Upper Back is weak. Pursue Both. It doesn’t matter if your bodyweight is 135 or 300 right now.
I am all for high standards, but how many big guys do you know that can do a bodyweight dumbbell row for 20 reps with good form? Most gyms only have DB’s that go up to 150 or 200 anyway. Since you should be able to double at least your DB Row with the barbell row, that you means you think you should barbell row double bodyweight for 20 reps.
I don’t think so. And the double body weight Chin-up goal is too high for anyone over 150 lbs in my opinion. I am not saying it is humanly impossible but I am saying to declare a person weak because they can’t do these things is off target. I don’t consider myself weak and I can’t do either of these things at 215 lbs.
To the OP, Squats, GHR, Good Mornings, and various deads (RDL’s, Rack Pulls below the knee, and deficit deads) will do a lot more to help your pull than working on your lats/upper back in my opinion.[/quote]
yeah… that would mean i would have to do pullups with a total of 580lbs and do high rep dumbell rows with 290lbs. that ain’t gonna happen.
i totally agree with Tim here. lat strength is important for overall strength but to build a strong deadlift there are many many superior movements than rows or chins. i consider myself to have strong lats (well…i did until i read that i had to do double bodyweight chins to be strong:),
but i’ve never seen much carry over to deadlifting. benching… now i do see a huge carry over on the bench.
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
yeah… that would mean i would have to do pullups with a total of 580lbs and do high rep dumbell rows with 290lbs. that ain’t gonna happen.
[/quote]
Hey, that’s not our problem if you are too weak to accomplish those modest goals. Most people I know can do a 1-arm pullup with double bodyweight, let alone using both arms. Maybe you should invest in a pullup suit. 
I was kidding about the Pull-ups and Dumbbell Rows. I should have made the numbers more outrageous. I remember Wendler saying something in one post that if you didn’t have
A raw 1000X4 1-Board Press
A 900 Good-Morning
A 405X20 Walking Lunge
And some other absurd numbers, you were still weak.
I don’t need to tell you that I don’t know what a good row and chin number would be for a big guy. I know Andy Bolton does 225 dumbbell rows strapless, and he misses at the top of his deads.
But I think people sell themselves short a lot on upper back work. My, admittedly poorly executed, point was that you should have both chinning and rowing numbers that you can be proud of. If you’re Benedict Magnusson, maybe doing 5 chin-ups is something to be proud of.
I guess I should have stressed more that bringing up your hamstring strength will help your Deadlift more than Upper Back Work. It’ll probably help more than anything.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
I can row 100pd dbs for 25+ reps with arm arm with straps, do you think I can do 200 pounds with a barbell for 20+ reps.
No. Your db row SHOULD be >1/2 your bb row.
Are you being honest with yourself when you say that or can you “kroc” row it.
Your strict bb row should be > your strict db row.[/quote]
how strict is strict? There will be some extra body movement because of the nature of the movement. I’m extremely uncomfortable doing bb rows though. I hate them.
Even strictly I could probably db row >1/2 of my bb row
Id say that with the same amount of body english that I use BB rowing, my single arm row would still be less than half.
Ive BB rowed 100kg x 12, but there is no fucking chance of my single arm rowing 50kg x 12. Mind you I guess it depends on what you mean by ‘single arm row’.
If I use DB’s I always use both hands and do them lying face down on a bench, I normally only get like 35kg x 12-15 pulled all the way up.
I cant see how lat strenght has ever affected my deadlift. Mid back strength certainly, however I find the best way to build this is definitely rack pulls.
[quote]Modi wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
yeah… that would mean i would have to do pullups with a total of 580lbs and do high rep dumbell rows with 290lbs. that ain’t gonna happen.
Hey, that’s not our problem if you are too weak to accomplish those modest goals. Most people I know can do a 1-arm pullup with double bodyweight, let alone using both arms. Maybe you should invest in a pullup suit. ;)[/quote]
i figure my elbow sleeves should be enough:)
[quote]FightingScott wrote:
I was kidding about the Pull-ups and Dumbbell Rows. I should have made the numbers more outrageous. I remember Wendler saying something in one post that if you didn’t have
[/quote]
I apologize, I didn’t realize you were kidding about that. Fair enough.
How would you guys organize that into a deadlift routine.
lower body 1:
squat
pause squat
GHR
lower body 2:
Deadlift - for whatever reps your workin in
then what after that?
front squats
romanina deadlifts
ghr
good mornigns
rack pulls?
how would you guys organize that 2nd lower body lifting day after doing the deadlifts?
thanks!
day 1:
-squat or box squat variation
-front squat
-GHR
-hypertrophy work for the quads
(I also do back width with legs)
-lat pulldowns or rack chins
-abs
Day 2:
-deadlift variation
-2 row variations
-good mornings
-hypers
-gunz
-abz
serious ab work too, side bends, cable abs, weighted situps done properly in the 8-20 range. I do multiple sets because they are weak.
[quote]Tim Henriques wrote:
FightingScott wrote:
I was kidding about the Pull-ups and Dumbbell Rows. I should have made the numbers more outrageous. I remember Wendler saying something in one post that if you didn’t have
I apologize, I didn’t realize you were kidding about that. Fair enough.[/quote]
Totally my fault.