I know 5/3/1 is a good program, but only training the lifts once a week isnt feasible in terms of gains. Especially at my noob strength level where since im weak i recover quickly. Whats the point of doing a lift once a week when you’ll be recovered two days later? Thats just missing out on strength and size gains.
Why do you think Jim Wendler is intentionally training a lot of athletes your age the wrong way?
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Im not trying to discredit 5/3/1 , just doesnt suit me thats all. Think about it though: if you overhead press on a Monday and by wednesday you could train the overhead press again with maximum intensity ,what would be the point of waiting a week to train it again? When you could train more frequently and get more gains. That is why to me 5/3/1 or even Bodybuilding splits does not make any sense.
Perhaps I’m just being naive
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I apologise for any confusion; my question wasn’t rhetorical. Why do you think Jim trains his athletes intentionally wrong?
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I agree quite a bit with this. I love 5-3-1 periodization but the split sucks because frequency is pretty important. There is also 2 pushing days to 1 pull day.
I always recommend 5-3-1 periodization but with either PPL, upper lower off, or full body every other day depending on how many days a week the person will train.
I think 5-3-1 does this because the people following 5-3-1 are probably noobs and this keeps them from becoming burned out or overreaching.
And dont get me started on BB splits.
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Dude, I think Duke made it quite clear that he thinks 5/3/1 is a good program but it just doesn’t fit his current needs and philosophy
There are many different styles of training, a lot of which are great. 5/3/1 is JM’s style, and thus he trains also the younger guys that way. Same goes for a lot of well-known coaches.
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I think Jim trains kids that way since it’s simple, quick and effective. Duke just trains a different way because he wants to. Freedom and all that right.
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Dude I totes understand and feel you for real, but my comment was in reference to comments like this
Those are less about personal preference and more about how the program works in totality. I’m curious what @duketheslaya 's thought process is on the matter, because understanding that thought process helps to have a productive dialouge on the topic of training, ESPECIALLY for a young trainee that is still learning things.
Once again, I aplogize. Many people seem to be interpretting my question as rhetorical when that is not the case. Take the question at face value.
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I have no objection with how someone wants to train; it’s the thought process I’m curious about.
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I’d say I’m fairly similar to Duke as in training age and I ran 5/3/1 for 8 cycles. I didn’t like the low lift frequency and found it incredibly tedious overall. Those were just my thoughts on it and why I went off of it. Duke couldn’t do 5/3/1 as well since the lack of a proper gym and has done his own thing.
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How could this be? You didn’t spend time building a base of strength like every beginner should.
Or did you?
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I feel like I’m still not asking my question clearly enough.
EDIT: Let me try this way.
If these flaws with the program are obvious to a 15 year old and a 17 year old, why doesn’t Jim realize these flaws in his program?
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What’s confusing me is the idea that you don’t train the lifts enough with 5/3/1. I squat and bench twice a week, and there’s nothing to stop me DLing or pressing twice a week either if I choose - all within Jim’s system.
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I wouldn’t call them flaws just different preferences that people have. I did the original 5/3/1 with once per week and made a lot of gains on it. It works obviously. Jim trains the kids the way he does because it works.
Duke couldn’t run 5/3/1 and has made up his mind, maybe preemptively, that it is not for him nor his own preferences. I have run it and have made up my mind after two thirds of a year of running it that it’s not for me.
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I beleive I have once again miscommunicated. The flaws I am speaking to are the ones I addressed here
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Pretty much.
I said its a good program, i was saying for me personally i don’t like it. Many people have gotten great results. and there’s a 110 chance that my perception of me not agreeing with 5/3/1 is because im a beginner with not much knowledge.
This was not meant to blow up into a mini dispute lol
Ah my mistake. I just dont think id progress in it as fast as id like, (this is not dissing the program by the way) its a marathon not a sprint and i know that, but for now i will get as strong as i can doing my own programming because i guess i feel more of a sense of accomplishment doing what i do then what someone else made. for now i enjoy the freedom of programming myself and making gains. Once i dont gain strength or muscle i will consider something like 5/3/1.
I think i will actually train smith squats every once in a while, they are actually beneficial. I used to hate on the smith machine but it can be a valuable tool!
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This was actually different than what you were saying. This is a fine statement; it’s the ones I quoted originally that I was curious about.
My hope was more an eye/mind opening experience through reflection, but sadly I don’t think that occurred here, but that’s ok. At one point in my training, whenever I saw someone who was far more accomplished than me say something that didn’t make sense to me, I started assuming I was the dummy and they were the smart dude, rather than the other way around, and it REALLY opened up my training. My hope was that, when asked this question, you would look inward and wonder “Gee, why DOES Jim Wendler, 1000lb squatter and established author on training, advocate performing a movement once a week, if I KNOW that training it more frequently makes more sense”
And then, from there, ideally, you’d reach the realization that though the MOVEMENT is only trained once a week, the MUSCLES contained in that movement get trained twice a week. Super frequent training of a specific movement is great if you are a powerlifter or compete in specific lifts, because you want to get as good as possible at those movements, but if your goal is simply to get bigger and stronger, frequent practice isn’t as necessary, and in some cases may actually work against the goal.
And then we realize Jim’s program ISN’T a powerlifting program, so attempting to critique it as though it were would be silly. It’s goal is to get bigger and stronger (which, as I understand, is your goal), and it achieves this with it’s method. And that is why Jim trains athletes your age with it; because it works well for producing big and strong athletes, not necessarily junior powerlifters.
I realize this was a long post, but my hope was that it would be something you realized by answering the question I asked. However, regrettably, the majority of the people on this forum believe my questions are rhetorical, no matter how much I state otherwise.
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