[quote]BigBaconClassic wrote:
This took place in a period of 3 months and I assure you there were no cutting phases.
[/quote]
It also states in that article that he felt he was overtraining. I would love to know this guy’s stats throughout his career, not just over three months. I would like to know if muscle memory was a factor at all.
For instance, if he was overtraining and had lost size, regaining size he previously had is not the same as gaining new muscle mass that he never had before. This is seen in bodybuilding regularly as overtraining and a reduction in training can lead to muscle lost.
25lbs of lean body mass on an already trained athlete would make perfect sense if he was regaining size he had before. Otherwise, it is highly unlikely that this can be copied by well trained bodybuilders who are not beginners.
Another thing to consider when you talk about competitive athletes, is whether or not they are enhancing at all.
This will change the nature of what can realistically be accomplished, both in terms of gains and in terms of gains without necessarily adding fat.
It gets very difficult to know who is or isn’t taking advantage of something… so being a beginner or being enhanced will both provide advantages that can be pointed to as examples, but that generally won’t be effective for the average trained natural lifter.
[quote]TriGWU wrote:
G-Flux can work for anyone. You don’t have to be huge. So going off that strategy you’d be selling yourself short.
At 6-7k Calories a day, I’m pretty confident I’m at a G-Flux. I adjust muscle mass while still at or around 6%. No one would want to be my size. So accomplishing G-Flux doesn’t always mean you are getting huge.
I am now at the point to try and see if I can possibly put some fat on just to feel like I am supercompensating my calories. I’ve added one whole box of mac and cheese to my diet and I’m working on a second.
Really, go one way or another. At 185 you should go up. G-Flux is for people who are athletes who need to be at a certain weight. You can be at G-Flux and still look like you’ve never touched a weight.[/quote]
This is a good post. Another thing about the g-Flux articles is the guys were going from like 160 to around 190. I dunno if it would work as well for an individual around 250ish.That would have to be a TON of calories just to maintain with that kind of going out.
It also states in that article that he felt he was overtraining. I would love to know this guy’s stats throughout his career, not just over three months. I would like to know if muscle memory was a factor at all.
For instance, if he was overtraining and had lost size, regaining size he previously had is not the same as gaining new muscle mass that he never had before. This is seen in bodybuilding regularly as overtraining and a reduction in training can lead to muscle lost.
25lbs of lean body mass on an already trained athlete would make perfect sense if he was regaining size he had before. Otherwise, it is highly unlikely that this can be copied by well trained bodybuilders who are not beginners.[/quote]
I have been following Nelson for several years and to the best of my knowledge he was never much bigger than he was when he started the program. He certainly wasnt 25lbs heavier before.
He has also never failed a drug test and is quite outspoken against drug use. Of course I cant say with 100% certainty that he is clean but he has passed probably hundreds of drug tests while other elite throwers have failed.
[quote]BigBaconClassic wrote:
I have been following Nelson for several years and to the best of my knowledge he was never much bigger than he was when he started the program. He certainly wasnt 25lbs heavier before.
He has also never failed a drug test and is quite outspoken against drug use. Of course I cant say with 100% certainty that he is clean but he has passed probably hundreds of drug tests while other elite throwers have failed.
Passing drug tests in sports no longer means “clean”. Beyond that, very few people would expect someone who has trained for years to gain 25lbs of new muscle in only three months (a gain that would normally take a well trained athlete who has been lifting for several years more than 2 years to gain naturally) while also dropping 5% body fat naturally. You won’t find anyone making a claim like that with a straight face. This guy isn’t a beginner. I would be more inclined to believe this if they hadn’t added the 5% drop in body fat. To throw that in as well screams either the effects of muscle memory (which is the only way I will believe this happened naturally) or the use of some type of anabolic. The moment you run across an average trainer making gains like that from buying a book, let me know. My guess is, you aren’t seeing anything close to that in yourself.
If it is muscle memory, then making claims as if it isn’t would also make the claims appear bogus. A couple of years ago, I had to drop a significant amount of weight for job related training I was doing. It took me very little time to gain that weight and strength back. People who hadn’t known me before the weight loss would think it was all “new muscle”. Regaining muscle that was lost is nothing like gaining it in the first place.
[quote]K-Narf wrote:
I don’t think G-Flux is meant for you to lose weight and gain muscle at the same time. Unless someone is extremely overweight or a complete newbie signifigant gains or loss of fat are gonna be pretty much non existant. People come on these board and are like…
“yeah I’m doing G-flux…”
I don’t think its a program,like TBT or WestSide for Skinny Bastards is a program. What I took from the article is it is possible to find an activity level where you can eat alot to gain muscle and gain little to no fat. I believe Dr Berardi has had some atheletes eating as much as 6000 calories a day and gain muscle mass while staying at the same bodyfat. It was also to show that athletes train for hours at a time(maybe not weight training but cardio and drills and stuff) and don’t go into this extreme catabolic state and become some overtrained they aren’t able to fuction like some people seem to believe.[/quote]
yes. the take-home message for the average reader was spelled out clearly by Dr. Berardi: “…if you’re expecting to have a body like any of the individuals pictured above, your puny 45-min workouts and 3-hour a week efforts ain’t gonna cut it.”
the average reader may not need 6000 kcals daily; they don’t train 2-3 hrs daily. but in most cases, the average reader can do much more than they’re currently doing. and increased expenditure requires increased intake.
Passing drug tests in sports no longer means “clean”. Beyond that, very few people would expect someone who has trained for years to gain 25lbs of new muscle in only three months (a gain that would normally take a well trained athlete who has been lifting for several years more than 2 years to gain naturally) while also dropping 5% body fat naturally. You won’t find anyone making a claim like that with a straight face. This guy isn’t a beginner. I would be more inclined to believe this if they hadn’t added the 5% drop in body fat. To throw that in as well screams either the effects of muscle memory (which is the only way I will believe this happened naturally) or the use of some type of anabolic. The moment you run across an average trainer making gains like that from buying a book, let me know. My guess is, you aren’t seeing anything close to that in yourself.
If it is muscle memory, then making claims as if it isn’t would also make the claims appear bogus. A couple of years ago, I had to drop a significant amount of weight for job related training I was doing. It took me very little time to gain that weight and strength back. People who hadn’t known me before the weight loss would think it was all “new muscle”. Regaining muscle that was lost is nothing like gaining it in the first place.[/quote]
I never claimed that making that sort of progress was easy. Nor did I claim that the average frat boy trainer would be capable of such results. Nor did I claim that I myself was getting those results. All I’m saying is that its possible.
Thanks for a great discussion!
Smile
BBC
BTW in Thibaudeau’s Mutation Series there is a 3 week period where he gains muscle and loses fat.
“This first phase of training really helped with my body composition since I was able to add muscle while shedding some fat.”
[quote]vroom wrote:
There is a 3 week period where he gains muscle and loses fat.
Might I suggest a grain of salt?[/quote]
I wonder how many people are running in complete circles making minimal progress because someone claims a 3 week period of fat loss-muscle gain or because an athlete claims 25lbs of muscle gain in only three months with a 5% drop in body fat. There are pro bodybuilders who don’t expect to make gains like that on a vast array of hormones and chemicals, yet this is being tossed around as what the average gym goer will see in his training?