As a beginner I’ve heard the terms and to me they seem interchangeable. Are they? Is there a differance in eating and training between Bulking or Building Lean Mass? Could some of the guys who’ve been in the game for a while explain?
Thanks in advance…
RWJNYC
For most people who train, bulking means to gain muscle mass while adding some fat at the same time. People who are bulking tend to eat a significant amount more than usual to add a lot of muscle, but are also willing to add a few fat pounds at the same time. The idea being that they can gain muscle quicker while on a higher calorie diet, then after they have achieved their muscle goals, tighten up their diet and lose the excess bodyfat.
Building lean muscle mass is just that, eating clean and gaining muscle in a more deliberate way to ensure only muscle gain, not fat.
Look at it this way, if you bulked for 3 months and put on 20 pounds, of which 10 was pure muscle (which is somewhat unrealistic) and 10 lbs. of fat, it would then take the average person 4-8 weeks to lose the excess bodyfat. Conversely, if you ate clean, high protein/low carbs, mod. fat you could probably gain that same 10 lbs. of muscle in 4-6 months, or roughly the same amount of time it took you to bulk and then lose the fat.
The difference being that you would not have the adverse health effects of adding 10 lbs. of fat, would be learning the correct way to achieve your results, and setting good habits for the future.
I consider myself as being in the game for a while.
Bulking is eating to basically put on mass. Fat mass and muscle mass.
Lean Muscle Mass cannot be RETAINED while bulking. In order to retain lean muscle mass you must either be naturally gifted with this physique, combine high intensity cardio w/ weight training, eat fairly clean, or use anabolics…hehe.
[quote]JDREDD wrote:
Look at it this way, if you bulked for 3 months and put on 20 pounds, of which 10 was pure muscle (which is somewhat unrealistic) and 10 lbs. of fat, it would then take the average person 4-8 weeks to lose the excess bodyfat. Conversely, if you ate clean, high protein/low carbs, mod. fat you could probably gain that same 10 lbs. of muscle in 4-6 months, or roughly the same amount of time it took you to bulk and then lose the fat.
[/quote]
This is called oversimplification. If it was that simple, there would be no logic behind bulking up at all. It is NOT that simple. The truth is, it is very difficult for the average human body to ONLY gain lean body mass without steroid use. Bulking up is simply the understanding of this and eating to make gains in strength and muscle mass. If you gain 10lbs of fat and 10lbs of muscle in the time period you described, you bulked up WRONG. No one has recommended that to anyone. The goal is to keep fat gains minimal, not send someone into the often vain attempt of only muscle gains because it isn’t a realistic goal for most unless your goals are minimal in the first place.
This is called oversimplification. If it was that simple, there would be no logic behind bulking up at all. It is NOT that simple. The truth is, it is very difficult for the average human body to ONLY gain lean body mass without steroid use. Bulking up is simply the understanding of this and eating to make gains in strength and muscle mass. If you gain 10lbs of fat and 10lbs of muscle in the time period you described, you bulked up WRONG. No one has recommended that to anyone. The goal is to keep fat gains minimal, not send someone into the often vain attempt of only muscle gains because it isn’t a realistic goal for most unless your goals are minimal in the first place.[/quote]
So X…Correct me if I am wrong, but are you saying there really isn’t a difference? That it is just terminology? Building Leam Mass is of course the name of the game, at least for me it is why I am here. It just seemed to me after days and weeks of reading the two terms just seemed interchangable. I am currently eating very clean and lifting hard and am realizing newbie gains of about 2.5lbs/week. BF staying about the same.
[quote]rwjnyc wrote:
So X…Correct me if I am wrong, but are you saying there really isn’t a difference? That it is just terminology? Building Leam Mass is of course the name of the game, at least for me it is why I am here. It just seemed to me after days and weeks of reading the two terms just seemed interchangable. I am currently eating very clean and lifting hard and am realizing newbie gains of about 2.5lbs/week. BF staying about the same.[/quote]
No, I am saying there IS a difference. Many of these guys are eating so “clean” they can’t even gain a pound. They are so fearful of the smallest ounce of fat that they remain at about the same body weight for months to years and whine about how they are ALL hardgainers. The simple point is, you will not jump into bodybuilding and gain a significant amount of muscle while eating so clean and being so restrictive with your food intake that you barely gain anything.
Like I said before, bulking up is simply the knowledge that to grow at the fastest rate possible, you have to constantly provide your body with nutrients throughout the day and make sure your weight is going UP. It is the understanding that some amount of that weight gain may be fat tissue, but that you should not be so afraid of gaining any body fat at all that you don’t grow. This isn’t a diet. It is the one time you should be giving your body everything it needs…and many people aren’t. They are barely giving it enough to squeak by and then they complain about the lack of progress.
There IS NO logic behind bulking up! I’m sick and tired of hearing how many extra EMPTY calories you have to ingest in order to gain muscle mass when a proper diet that minimizes or eliminates fat gain is possible. There are too many people out there looking for the easy way out. Yes, you do need to increase caloric intake, but if you do it right there is no reason that just about anyone can achieve the EXACT same results WITHOUT putting on excess bodyfat. This means studying your body for the exact mix of pro/carb/fat that your body works optimally at.
Anyone can eat 4000 or 5000 calories a day and gain weight, but how many have the discipline to then lose the bodyfat? Eating big doesn’t have to mean getting fat!
Prof X may think this is oversimplification, but it isn’t, it’s just simplification. Don’t try to reinvent the wheel, stick to the basics ie. high protein, low carbs, moderate fat, lift heavy, stay disciplined.
[quote]JDREDD wrote:
Prof X may think this is oversimplification, but it isn’t, it’s just simplification. Don’t try to reinvent the wheel, stick to the basics ie. high protein, low carbs, moderate fat, lift heavy, stay disciplined. [/quote]
Odd that you say that, especially when the basics are exactly what I am referring to. Those bodybuilders of the past bulked up. They weren’t eating so clean that they made no progress.
The easy way out? I wasn’t aware that gaining muscle at the optimal rate for your body was the easy way out. I am very interested in the progress you have made and how “clean” you eat daily. I mean, if you are going to argue strategies for muscle gain, you have to be willing to make your progress acheived clear as well.
[quote]JDREDD wrote:
There IS NO logic behind bulking up! I’m sick and tired of hearing how many extra EMPTY calories you have to ingest in order to gain muscle mass when a proper diet that minimizes or eliminates fat gain is possible. There are too many people out there looking for the easy way out. Yes, you do need to increase caloric intake, but if you do it right there is no reason that just about anyone can achieve the EXACT same results WITHOUT putting on excess bodyfat. This means studying your body for the exact mix of pro/carb/fat that your body works optimally at.
Anyone can eat 4000 or 5000 calories a day and gain weight, but how many have the discipline to then lose the bodyfat? Eating big doesn’t have to mean getting fat!
Prof X may think this is oversimplification, but it isn’t, it’s just simplification. Don’t try to reinvent the wheel, stick to the basics ie. high protein, low carbs, moderate fat, lift heavy, stay disciplined.
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the idea of maximizing muscle gain without any fat gain is a nice dream isnt it?
For this to be the case you would have to calculate your daily caloric intake/expenditure to the most anal degree that it would not be a feasable solution for your average person.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
JDREDD wrote:
Prof X may think this is oversimplification, but it isn’t, it’s just simplification. Don’t try to reinvent the wheel, stick to the basics ie. high protein, low carbs, moderate fat, lift heavy, stay disciplined.
Odd that you say that, especially when the basics are exactly what I am referring to. Those bodybuilders of the past bulked up. They weren’t eating so clean that they made no progress.
The easy way out? I wasn’t aware that gaining muscle at the optimal rate for your body was the easy way out. I am very interested in the progress you have made and how “clean” you eat daily. I mean, if you are going to argue strategies for muscle gain, you have to be willing to make your progress acheived clear as well.[/quote]
I cry foul! Show me one bodybuilder who “gains only lean mass”. This is crap. I am an example of someone who ate clean for a while. Lo and behold I didn’t gain crap. Then I somehow gained 3-4% bf and put on 12 lbs. That was in around 6 weeks time. (Other factors played in too… But still. Lets be real… lean mass wasn’t going to get me anywhere I am now.) I’m currently about to embark on another mass gaining odyessy. My pants were tight for a while. Now their loose… I’ll rinse and repeat until I hit 170 or so while shredded and then see what else I wanna do.
Give me a physique athlete who doesn’t bulk. IE gain fat and LBM at the same time. And I’ll show you one who isn’t progressing.
You need to bulk up for about 2 years. This does not mean fat, just not cut or ripped. Specifically, you need to eat a large amount of calories (maybe 3000 or more like me) spread out evenly throughout the day. FOr the next two years (or even longer) you need to give your body all it needs to grow: hard, compound lifts 3-4X a week, plenty of rest, and plenty of calories. Also, do some light cardio a few times a week for 30 mins to limit fat gain. Again, you need to “buk,” but do not have to get really fat (maybe just a little). After a few years of this dedication and CONSISTENCY, you will have enough muscle to diet down a little, fine tune, and just generally enjoy the hard work you have put in. To build quality muscle (just like Draper and the guys of old), you need to have all 3 variables aligned, day in and day out. Good luck.
Also, anyone who tells you you can gain muscle (all muscle is lean, btw) without any fat is trying to sell you something. There are no shortcuts, it’s takes hard, consistent application. What a reward though.
[quote]JDREDD wrote:
Anyone can eat 4000 or 5000 calories a day and gain weight, but how many have the discipline to then lose the bodyfat? Eating big doesn’t have to mean getting fat!
[/quote]
Who stated that bulking up means this? I haven?t read where Prof.X or anyone else on this thread supporting correct bulking practices has stated such. Why the unnecessary exaggeration? As far as a question about having discipline to loose some excess BF on a Bodybuilding Think-Tank, seriously!
The terms are not interchangeable. Bulking helped me get big muscles. Call me a man of simple pleasures, but I like that.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I am very interested in the progress you have made and how “clean” you eat daily. I mean, if you are going to argue strategies for muscle gain, you have to be willing to make your progress acheived clear as well.[/quote]
Why do they always avoid this question?
I concur. I try shorter bulking/cutting cycles. The idea of having to buy an entirely new set of clothes just doesn’t appeal to me… That and being fairly lean. I don’t think I could handle 15+% for very long. It’s bad enough when I approach 15%. That and my pants kill me.
Like look at Prof X, his traps are so big it looks like he has sloping girly shoulders.
Well aside from the fact that girls don’t have 18 inch arms.
[quote]Garrett W. wrote:
Well aside from the fact that girls don’t have 18 inch arms.[/quote]
They’re bigger than that and I resent being related to “sloping girl shoulders”. I have never had that term used to describe me before and I seriously doubt that to be the case. How much do you weigh that my trap development looks that strange to you?
[quote]Garrett W. wrote:
I concur. I try shorter bulking/cutting cycles. The idea of having to buy an entirely new set of clothes just doesn’t appeal to me… That and being fairly lean. I don’t think I could handle 15+% for very long. It’s bad enough when I approach 15%. That and my pants kill me.
Like look at Prof X, his traps are so big it looks like he has sloping girly shoulders.
Well aside from the fact that girls don’t have 18 inch arms.[/quote]
Ehhhh…what do the size of his traps have to do with his leanness?
That, and no one’s delts are big enough to pop out laterally from the traps when they are flexed, which I imagine the Prof’s are.
And I think those are 20’s, not 18’s.
[quote]Garrett W. wrote:
The idea of having to buy an entirely new set of clothes just doesn’t appeal to me
[/quote]
When I start popping out of t-shirts I take it as something I like to call progress. I just like that.
[quote]Garrett W. wrote:
Like look at Prof X, his traps are so big it looks like he has sloping girly shoulders.
Well aside from the fact that girls don’t have 18 inch arms.[/quote]
Are we looking at the same avatars here? Or are you attempting sarcasm?
[quote]Garrett W. wrote: I don’t think I could handle 15+% for very long. It’s bad enough when I approach 15%. That and my pants kill me.
[/quote]
Who says you have to be at 15% for very long anyway?
With the right diet,training and the rest, excess BF can be taken away in cutting.
As was stated before…by prof.x I think?..gaining muscle at the optimal rate for your body is not a bad thing. I really enjoy it.
Once stricken with manorexia, I’ve come to realize that gains don’t happen, particularly if you’re young, on a super clean diet. I’ve slowly over the past year gone from 126-128lbs @ 8-10% body fat to 137-140 @ 10-11% body fat. What I do is very clean during the week (I’m a martial artist and can’t afford to pack on a lot of weight at the expense of fat) and then really up my calories on the weekend with lots of good, cheaty food. I just actually got done with a quality 5000+ cal cheat day consisting of pizza, brownies, ice cream, whoole wheat bagels, chinese food, whole grain cereal, fat-free pop corn, and a few grapes. I adopted this from I believe Joel Marion’s trailing edge diet. You eat High GI carbs the day after you workout, only I’ve modified it to be a once a week thing.
The day after I usually find myself somewhat bloated but by the 2nd day I’m back to where I was prior to the cheat usually. I agree with X - I tried to do the super clean bulk thing and it just wasn’t happening. I was eating a lot but the gains weren’t coming. Physically, I can tell and feel the difference in my muscles, especially on cheat days - they become very full and hard, and vascularity skyrockets. Perhaps if someone is older, a clean bulk is doable, but I think for someone your (or my age), you need some of those unhealthy things to help push you over the edge.