Double Tap Marine!

[Grimnuruk]

[quote]blacksheep wrote:
…
We were Soldiers just doing our duty."

Though War, as stated somewhere, is but to kill, destroy, and maim, there is still inherent within civil and moral man compassion.

This may be a little off the original topic but I wanted to give the flip side of Double Tap. Maybe somthing can be drawn from the above.

[/quote]

Another great post. Thanks. Despite the background noise of hate going on in this thread, we’ve had some interesting material here.
I think the comparison of today’s conflicts with those of WWI and WWII is a great subject. A moments thought should remind us that there was tremendous loss of life in the most horrendous conditions imaginable in those conflicts and yet there seems to be this nostalgic view of them today. The difference being the global technology of instant communication which allows access to these scenes in our homes almost as they happen. War always involves the butchering of your fellow man and industrialization hasn’t detracted from this any. Having removed it to a button pushing for some, it has also increased the casuality rate exponentially with the use of modern weapon systems.

What this topic was originally about, one combatant killing another, who happened to have been wounded in the previous day of fighting, is an act that has occurred countless times over the millenia warfare (organized) and combat(disorganized).

Our modern technology has placed us in the position to be able to watch these events unfold, as we watch our entertainment from the same media, and pass our own judgement on it.

As I have mentioned before, this doesn’t necessarily mean that we have any background understanding whatsoever and all too often fill this blank/context in with our own preconceived notions further distorting the meaning of the actions themselves.

It is difficult for many people to grasp that you can serve your country, doing what appears to them to be the most barbaric combat they’ve seen outside the video arcade and still be a decent human being trying to follow the code of honor in your culture.

This country will be paying the price of our young people’s sacrifices for a long long time. It is unfortunate that so many choose to squander their freedom with indifference and ignorance to the actual situations that our service people are experiencing.

[Wreckless]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
Headhunter wrote:

Tell me, do you consider ANYTHING worth fighting for? Would you favor removing a dictator who you thought was about to unleash WMDs on Belgium? Should you wait until you see little children dying from bio-agents before you, in your infinite wisdom, decide to take action?

Perhaps you can explain to us why you send 19 year olds to their death then?

And please, don’t give me that crap about WMD. We knew then that there weren’t any. We ALL know now that there weren’t any.

Is it your defence that you’re a stupid and arrogant mofo that believed the evidence Rummy fabricated? Is that what you’re saying.

And I really don’t see how you’re umbrella is protecting anybody. Are you still convinced that attacking Iraq was justified? Are you still convinced that it is helping in the war on terror? Because if you are, than you’re clearly in a state of denial.
Not stupid enough to enlist though.

How’s that cough going?

Not going to answer the question, are you Mr. GD Coward? I left it up intentionally so maybe you’d try, though I doubt it.

How did YOU know there were no WMDs? Self-delusions of Godhood? Wouldn’t doubt it.

Then, you post attack me because of my being an asthmatic. Wow, what a class act you are. Does everyone around you call you a stupid arrogant asshole? Maybe they’ve got something there.

[/quote]

The question is not how I knew there we no WMDs. I WAS RIGHT ! ! !

The question is, how did you know there were any? Self-delusions of Godhood? Wouldn’t doubt it.

YOU WERE WRONG ! ! !

But I’ll answer your question none the less.

There was Blickx, there was the embargo, there where international observers on one hand.

And there was this born again retard on the other hand.

You went with the retard.

About your cough…
What? you don’t like personal attacks. Gee, when you live in a glass house and all that…

[Wreckless]

[quote]40yarddash wrote:
You are all going off topic. We were discussing whether double tapping a wounded terrorist was the right thing to do and practically everyone agreed that it was. So Wreckless and Orion and whoever else that is on your side why don’t you put aside your view on whether this war is right or not and tell us what you would have done in this Marine’s place?[/quote]

Well, I got mad when all the “cake walk” guys suddenly discovered that war is a nasty business. Gee, when did that happen?

Anyway, it’s a valid question. An guy is put in a very difficult situation and his humanity suffers. There is no right decision.

The responsibility lies with the people that put him in that situation.

I’m sure when Bush and his cheerleaders stand before they’re maker, they’ll be answering much tougher questions than those marines. Perhaps the Big Guy even decides to wear a turban and insists on being addressed as Allah. I’ve heard he has a sense of humor.

I’m still hoping I would never have allowed myself to be put in a situation like this. Meaning, I would have refused to go to Iraq. Perhaps I would become a flyboy at champagne squadron in Texas or something. Or I would have developed a nasty cough.

Naah, I probably would have deserted.

[Wreckless]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
40yarddash wrote:
You are all going off topic. We were discussing whether double tapping a wounded terrorist was the right thing to do and practically everyone agreed that it was. So Wreckless and Orion and whoever else that is on your side why don’t you put aside your view on whether this war is right or not and tell us what you would have done in this Marine’s place?

Orion can do that…Wreckless can’t stop frothing at the mouth over his Bush-hatred.

[/quote]

I don’t hate the guy. I pitty the fool. Not as much as I pitty the fools he fools though.

[Wreckless]

[quote]JeffR wrote:
hedo wrote:
orion wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Orion can do that…Wreckless can’t stop frothing at the mouth over his Bush-hatred.

Who gives a fuck really. They are not americans and have no real stake in this conversation other than to berate. They have no real militaries to speak of in their countires so they pick on ours.

Plus, very, very soon, the US will be number 4 economically after China, India and the EU, not necessarily in that order.

Don?t worry we will listen or maybe we wont, because truth is really all about power isnt it?

Keep us posted on that.

Is this what keep’s old europe amused these days.

Hedo,

I refuse to believe that orion speaks for all Austrians. There have to be people who can understand the threat that iran poses. There have to be people who remember the Marshall plan and are grateful.

I cannot believe that all of the Austrians are as mentally bankrupt.

JeffR

[/quote]

Sorry Effr0, that dog won’t hunt.

You can fool a marine once, but not twice.

If you want to invade Iran, I’m pretty sure Bush, Effr0 and HH will have to lead the charge.

[Wreckless]

[quote]orion wrote:
PGJ wrote:

Orion is a hard-core socialists American-hater. I’ve been to Austria several times, never saw one ounce of his anti-American sentiment in any natives I met. They are pretty humble about the whole WWI and WWII, greatest loss of human life in history, holocaust, world domination, master race thing.

Socialist? Moi !?!

Do you listen to anything other than the voices inside your own head?[/quote]

Naah, you’re just jealous because they only speak to him ! ! !

[Headhunter]

[quote]Wreckless wrote:

Naah, I probably would have deserted.[/quote]

Your soul deserted you long before you would ever desert from any military.

You wouldn’t fight to protect your family, your friends, or your country. How absolutely pathetic…

[Headhunter]

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
Headhunter wrote:

Tell me, do you consider ANYTHING worth fighting for? Would you favor removing a dictator who you thought was about to unleash WMDs on Belgium? Should you wait until you see little children dying from bio-agents before you, in your infinite wisdom, decide to take action?

Perhaps you can explain to us why you send 19 year olds to their death then?

And please, don’t give me that crap about WMD. We knew then that there weren’t any. We ALL know now that there weren’t any.

Is it your defence that you’re a stupid and arrogant mofo that believed the evidence Rummy fabricated? Is that what you’re saying.

And I really don’t see how you’re umbrella is protecting anybody. Are you still convinced that attacking Iraq was justified? Are you still convinced that it is helping in the war on terror? Because if you are, than you’re clearly in a state of denial.
Not stupid enough to enlist though.

How’s that cough going?

Not going to answer the question, are you Mr. GD Coward? I left it up intentionally so maybe you’d try, though I doubt it.

How did YOU know there were no WMDs? Self-delusions of Godhood? Wouldn’t doubt it.

Then, you post attack me because of my being an asthmatic. Wow, what a class act you are. Does everyone around you call you a stupid arrogant asshole? Maybe they’ve got something there.

The question is not how I knew there we no WMDs. I WAS RIGHT ! ! !

The question is, how did you know there were any? Self-delusions of Godhood? Wouldn’t doubt it.

YOU WERE WRONG ! ! !

But I’ll answer your question none the less.

There was Blickx, there was the embargo, there where international observers on one hand.

And there was this born again retard on the other hand.

You went with the retard.

About your cough…
What? you don’t like personal attacks. Gee, when you live in a glass house and all that…[/quote]

If 3 intelligence agencies (Russian, German, and Israeli) told you that your enemy was gathering weapons to strike you, and you had just had 3000 killed in Brussels, you would claim its all a conspiracy and your president a retard.

Oh, and are you referring to the inspectors who were kicked out before way before the war? The 18 UN resolutions Saddam violated?

You are simply pathetic. Fuck off.

[PGJ]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
orion wrote:
PGJ wrote:

Orion is a hard-core socialists American-hater. I’ve been to Austria several times, never saw one ounce of his anti-American sentiment in any natives I met. They are pretty humble about the whole WWI and WWII, greatest loss of human life in history, holocaust, world domination, master race thing.

Socialist? Moi !?!

Do you listen to anything other than the voices inside your own head?

Orion is a Libertarian, favoring very minimal government. Read more of his posts. He hates big government.

[/quote]

It’s deeper than that. He hates all things institutional. I’ve gone round and round with him before. It’s like talking to a wall. He loves to criticize America, like he knows something about the topic.

[PGJ]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
Headhunter wrote:

Tell me, do you consider ANYTHING worth fighting for? Would you favor removing a dictator who you thought was about to unleash WMDs on Belgium? Should you wait until you see little children dying from bio-agents before you, in your infinite wisdom, decide to take action?

Perhaps you can explain to us why you send 19 year olds to their death then?

And please, don’t give me that crap about WMD. We knew then that there weren’t any. We ALL know now that there weren’t any.

Is it your defence that you’re a stupid and arrogant mofo that believed the evidence Rummy fabricated? Is that what you’re saying.

And I really don’t see how you’re umbrella is protecting anybody. Are you still convinced that attacking Iraq was justified? Are you still convinced that it is helping in the war on terror? Because if you are, than you’re clearly in a state of denial.
Not stupid enough to enlist though.

How’s that cough going?

Not going to answer the question, are you Mr. GD Coward? I left it up intentionally so maybe you’d try, though I doubt it.

How did YOU know there were no WMDs? Self-delusions of Godhood? Wouldn’t doubt it.

Then, you post attack me because of my being an asthmatic. Wow, what a class act you are. Does everyone around you call you a stupid arrogant asshole? Maybe they’ve got something there.

The question is not how I knew there we no WMDs. I WAS RIGHT ! ! !

The question is, how did you know there were any? Self-delusions of Godhood? Wouldn’t doubt it.

YOU WERE WRONG ! ! !

But I’ll answer your question none the less.

There was Blickx, there was the embargo, there where international observers on one hand.

And there was this born again retard on the other hand.

You went with the retard.

About your cough…
What? you don’t like personal attacks. Gee, when you live in a glass house and all that…

If 3 intelligence agencies (Russian, German, and Israeli) told you that your enemy was gathering weapons to strike you, and you had just had 3000 killed in Brussels, you would claim its all a conspiracy and your president a retard.

Oh, and are you referring to the inspectors who were kicked out before way before the war? The 18 UN resolutions Saddam violated?

You are simply pathetic. Fuck off.

[/quote]

It’s staggering that people actually believe Saddam had no WMD’s. It’s like 20 people watching someone kill someone else with a gun (a gun registered in his name), but then not being able to find the gun. I GUARANTEE that if we did nothing, we would have been hit again even harder. Then all these pansy-assed haters would be screaming “Why didn’t the president do anything”.

[JeffR]

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
Headhunter wrote:

Tell me, do you consider ANYTHING worth fighting for? Would you favor removing a dictator who you thought was about to unleash WMDs on Belgium? Should you wait until you see little children dying from bio-agents before you, in your infinite wisdom, decide to take action?

Perhaps you can explain to us why you send 19 year olds to their death then?

And please, don’t give me that crap about WMD. We knew then that there weren’t any. We ALL know now that there weren’t any.

Is it your defence that you’re a stupid and arrogant mofo that believed the evidence Rummy fabricated? Is that what you’re saying.

And I really don’t see how you’re umbrella is protecting anybody. Are you still convinced that attacking Iraq was justified? Are you still convinced that it is helping in the war on terror? Because if you are, than you’re clearly in a state of denial.
Not stupid enough to enlist though.

How’s that cough going?

Not going to answer the question, are you Mr. GD Coward? I left it up intentionally so maybe you’d try, though I doubt it.

How did YOU know there were no WMDs? Self-delusions of Godhood? Wouldn’t doubt it.

Then, you post attack me because of my being an asthmatic. Wow, what a class act you are. Does everyone around you call you a stupid arrogant asshole? Maybe they’ve got something there.

The question is not how I knew there we no WMDs. I WAS RIGHT ! ! !

The question is, how did you know there were any? Self-delusions of Godhood? Wouldn’t doubt it.

YOU WERE WRONG ! ! !

But I’ll answer your question none the less.

There was Blickx, there was the embargo, there where international observers on one hand.

And there was this born again retard on the other hand.

You went with the retard.

About your cough…
What? you don’t like personal attacks. Gee, when you live in a glass house and all that…[/quote]

Good old reckless,

I admire your ability to be wrong on every issue. Your consistency is inspiring.

Oh, saddam had wmd and we’ve found some. He didn’t declare what he had.

Now back to your regularly scheduled trolling.

JeffR

[JeffR]

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
JeffR wrote:
hedo wrote:
orion wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Orion can do that…Wreckless can’t stop frothing at the mouth over his Bush-hatred.

Who gives a fuck really. They are not americans and have no real stake in this conversation other than to berate. They have no real militaries to speak of in their countires so they pick on ours.

Plus, very, very soon, the US will be number 4 economically after China, India and the EU, not necessarily in that order.

Don?t worry we will listen or maybe we wont, because truth is really all about power isnt it?

Keep us posted on that.

Is this what keep’s old europe amused these days.

Hedo,

I refuse to believe that orion speaks for all Austrians. There have to be people who can understand the threat that iran poses. There have to be people who remember the Marshall plan and are grateful.

I cannot believe that all of the Austrians are as mentally bankrupt.

JeffR

Sorry Effr0, that dog won’t hunt.

You can fool a marine once, but not twice.

If you want to invade Iran, I’m pretty sure Bush, Effr0 and HH will have to lead the charge.[/quote]

reckless,

If the three of us lead the charge, we’ll stop over in belgium and kick you around as a warm up. We’ll steal some waffles, throw you in a ditch, and raise a ruckus.

After iran is subjugated, we’ll be back to your country to take some free land.

We’ll rename belgium, Bush East. Then we’ll resign from the e.u. and form an alliance with the U.S.

I can see the headlines now, Bush East, with twelve guys, takes over france with a lightning campaign lasting 20 minutes.

JeffR

[olderguy]

[quote]JeffR wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
JeffR wrote:
hedo wrote:
orion wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Orion can do that…Wreckless can’t stop frothing at the mouth over his Bush-hatred.

Who gives a fuck really. They are not americans and have no real stake in this conversation other than to berate. They have no real militaries to speak of in their countires so they pick on ours.

Plus, very, very soon, the US will be number 4 economically after China, India and the EU, not necessarily in that order.

Don?t worry we will listen or maybe we wont, because truth is really all about power isnt it?

Keep us posted on that.

Is this what keep’s old europe amused these days.

Hedo,

I refuse to believe that orion speaks for all Austrians. There have to be people who can understand the threat that iran poses. There have to be people who remember the Marshall plan and are grateful.

I cannot believe that all of the Austrians are as mentally bankrupt.

JeffR

Sorry Effr0, that dog won’t hunt.

You can fool a marine once, but not twice.

If you want to invade Iran, I’m pretty sure Bush, Effr0 and HH will have to lead the charge.

reckless,

If the three of us lead the charge, we’ll stop over in belgium and kick you around as a warm up. We’ll steal some waffles, throw you in a ditch, and raise a ruckus.

After iran is subjugated, we’ll be back to your country to take some free land.

We’ll rename belgium, Bush East. Then we’ll resign from the e.u. and form an alliance with the U.S.

I can see the headlines now, Bush East, with twelve guys, takes over france with a lightning campaign lasting 20 minutes.

JeffR
[/quote]

Don’t you just love it when the Euros bash the US? When it was their turn to dominate, it was fine to have a saying like"the sun never sets on so and sos’s empire". But the fact that we have an economy to go along with our military might, and they have become as important in the world as Iceland, they resort to bashing us. I’m sure if countries like Austria were about to be invaded,(if they had anything worth envading for), they would be up our ass like a proctologist’s scope. I’m guessing Austria’s biggest export in the last 40 years has been Arnold. LOL. He won’t be going back anytime soon.

[orion]

[quote]olderguy wrote:

Don’t you just love it when the Euros bash the US? When it was their turn to dominate, it was fine to have a saying like"the sun never sets on so and sos’s empire". But the fact that we have an economy to go along with our military might, and they have become as important in the world as Iceland, they resort to bashing us. I’m sure if countries like Austria were about to be invaded,(if they had anything worth envading for), they would be up our ass like a proctologist’s scope. I’m guessing Austria’s biggest export in the last 40 years has been Arnold. LOL. He won’t be going back anytime soon.[/quote]

We`ll see about the US economy.

If you honestly think things are looking good regarding the US economy…

… I don?t think we share the same universe.

[derek]

[quote]orion wrote:
We`ll see about the US economy.

If you honestly think things are looking good regarding the US economy…

… I don?t think we share the same universe.[/quote]

News > Economy

U.S. economic growth sizzles

Third-quarter growth of 7.2 percent is strongest in nearly two decades; will job growth follow?
October 30, 2003: 5:47 PM EST
By Mark Gongloff, CNN/Money Staff Writer

“This is obviously an extraordinarily strong report, led by the consumer, but also with good signs about the state of the business sector and business confidence,” said Lehman Brothers economist Drew Matus.

The burst of GDP growth was led by a 6.6 percent jump in consumer spending, the fastest pace since the third quarter of 1997. Consumer spending grew at a 3.8 percent pace in the second quarter.

Child tax credit checks and lower rates of income tax withholding helped fuel the third-quarter spending surge, enabling the Bush administration – which pushed for tax cuts earlier this year – to take a victory lap Thursday morning.

“The tax relief we passed is working. We left more money in the hands of the American people and the American people are moving this economy forward,” Bush said at a speech in Columbus, Ohio. He cautioned: “We cannot expect economic growth numbers like this every quarter.”

Sorry to break it to you, orion. You might want to start building that spaceship.

[derek]

Small Businesses Signal Best Economy in 20 Years
07/13/2004

Overall, small-business owners are pleased with what they see on the near horizon. Researchers remain convinced this strong run affirms the best economy in two decades. The Small Business Optimism Index reached 103 (1986=100), continuing a 15-month string of readings at 100 or above, unprecedented in the survey?s 18-year history.

CRAP! Our economy is in the tank!

(The same tank that’s gonna drive into Belgium and take it over!)

[orion]

[quote]derek wrote:
orion wrote:
We`ll see about the US economy.

If you honestly think things are looking good regarding the US economy…

… I don?t think we share the same universe.

News > Economy

U.S. economic growth sizzles

Third-quarter growth of 7.2 percent is strongest in nearly two decades; will job growth follow?
October 30, 2003: 5:47 PM EST
By Mark Gongloff, CNN/Money Staff Writer

“This is obviously an extraordinarily strong report, led by the consumer, but also with good signs about the state of the business sector and business confidence,” said Lehman Brothers economist Drew Matus.

The burst of GDP growth was led by a 6.6 percent jump in consumer spending, the fastest pace since the third quarter of 1997. Consumer spending grew at a 3.8 percent pace in the second quarter.

Child tax credit checks and lower rates of income tax withholding helped fuel the third-quarter spending surge, enabling the Bush administration – which pushed for tax cuts earlier this year – to take a victory lap Thursday morning.

“The tax relief we passed is working. We left more money in the hands of the American people and the American people are moving this economy forward,” Bush said at a speech in Columbus, Ohio. He cautioned: “We cannot expect economic growth numbers like this every quarter.”

Sorry to break it to you, orion. You might want to start building that spaceship.

[/quote]

I am not talking about the private part of the US economy, there is no doubt that even less than perfect capitalism works.

I am more concerned with the enormous public debt and that this debt is financed by Asia, the declining $, the undervalued Yuan, the whole private debt situation in the US, especially mortgages…

The only real way I see of this is massive inflation of the $.

A monetary crisis would probably lead to the breakdown of this whole subsidy dependent economy, because capital would need to shift into real demand and not in government created ones (like the ultra newest fighter plane).

What happens if the US takes a hit?

All the world and especially China take a hit too…

All I see are bubbles, connected with bubbles, financed with invented money or promises to pay that will never be held…

This is seriously going to hurt. I give it about 10-15 years. Should our social systems collaps at the same time, which is likely during a depression things will tend to get interesting.

[pat]

[quote]orion wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Orion can do that…Wreckless can’t stop frothing at the mouth over his Bush-hatred.

Who gives a fuck really. They are not americans and have no real stake in this conversation other than to berate. They have no real militaries to speak of in their countires so they pick on ours.

Take a map.

Then a ruler.

Afterwards try to determine who lives closer to the Middle East.

I know that war is Gods way of teaching Americans geography but you could be up to speed by now…

Plus there are plenty of ways to critisize Austrias military.

Billions of Euros and one year of state slavery for an institution that could not defeat Liechtenstein?[/quote]

Sorry I was a bit hostile…I was in a pissed off mood to start. It wasn’t aimed at you as much as other(s).

I am well versed in geography, btw.

[pat]

[quote]orion wrote:
We`ll see about the US economy.

If you honestly think things are looking good regarding the US economy…

… I don?t think we share the same universe.[/quote]

Ummm…Yea, the U.S. economy is booming, big time. Recovery from the dot-bomb and enron era is complete.
Things don’t look good in the U.S. economy, things are good. Far more stable than 7-8 years ago.
Most “experts” thought the boom would end 2 years ago.

[orion]

[quote]pat36 wrote:
orion wrote:
We`ll see about the US economy.

If you honestly think things are looking good regarding the US economy…

… I don?t think we share the same universe.

Ummm…Yea, the U.S. economy is booming, big time. Recovery from the dot-bomb and enron era is complete.
Things don’t look good in the U.S. economy, things are good. Far more stable than 7-8 years ago.
Most “experts” thought the boom would end 2 years ago.[/quote]

Hey, I hope your right…

It would be so much more fun that way!