Double Tap Marine!

Regarding the news blurb about the Marine who put two rounds ("doubletap") in a wounded insurgent's head in Fallujah, here's a response from a Marine:

"It’s a safety issue, pure and simple. After assaulting through a target, we put a security round in everybody’s head. Sorry al-Reuters, there’s no paddy wagon rolling around Fallujah picking up “prisoners” and offering them a hot cup a joe, falafel, and a blanket. There’s no time to dick around on the target. You clear the space, dump the chumps, and move on.

Are Corpsmen expected to treat wounded terrorists? Negative. Hey Libs, worried about the defense budget? Well, it would be waste, fraud, and abuse for a Corpsman to expend one man-minute or a battle dressing on a terrorist. Its much cheaper to just spend the $.02 on a 5.56mm FMJ.

By the way, in our view, terrorists who chop off civilian’s heads are not prisoners, they are carcasses. Chopping off a civilian’s head is another reason why these idiots are known as “unlawful combatants.” It seems that most of the world’s journalists have forgotten that fact.

Let me be very clear about this issue. I have looked around the web, and many people get this concept, but there are some stragglers.

Here is your typical Marine sitrep (situation report): You just took fire from unlawful combatants (no uniform – breaking every Geneva Convention rule there is) shooting from a religious building, attempting to use the sanctuary status of their position as protection. But you’re in Fallujah now, and the Marine Corps has decided that they’re not playing that game this time. That was Najaf. So you set the mosque on fire and you hose down the terrorists with small arms, launch some AT-4s (Rockets), some 40MM grenades into the building and things quiet down. So you run over there, and find some tangos (bad guys) wounded and pretending to be dead. You are aware that suicide martyrdom is like really popular with these idiots, and they think taking some Marines with them would be really cool. So you can either risk your life and your fire team’s lives by having them cover you while you bend down and search a guy that you think is pretending to be dead for some reason. Most of the time these are the guys with the grenade or a vest made of explosives. Also, you don’t know who or what is in the next room. You’re already speaking English to the rest of your fire team or squad, which lets the terrorist know you are there and you are his enemy. You are speaking loud because your hearing is poor from shooting people for several days. So you know that there are many other rooms to enter, and that if anyone is still alive in those rooms, they know that Americans are in the mosque. Meanwhile (3 seconds later), you still have this terrorist (who was just shooting at you from a mosque) playing possum. What do you
do? You double tap his head, and you go to the next room, that’s what!

What about the Geneva Convention and all that Law of Land Warfare stuff? What about it? Without even addressing the issues at hand, your first thought should be, “I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.”

Bear in mind that this tactic of double tapping a fallen terrorist is a perpetual mindset that is reinforced by experience on a minute-by-minute basis. Secondly, you are fighting an unlawful combatant in a Sanctuary, which is a double No-No on his part. Third, tactically you are in no position to take “prisoners” because there are more rooms to search and clear, and the behavior of said terrorist indicates that he is up to no good. “No good” in Fallujah is a very large place, and the low end of no good and the high end of no good are fundamentally the same … Marines end up getting hurt or killed. So there is no compelling reason for you to do anything but double tap this idiot and get on with the mission.

If you are a veteran, then everything I have just written is self evident. If you are not a veteran, then at least try to put yourself in the situation. Remember, in Fallujah there is no yesterday, there is no tomorrow, there is only now. Right NOW. Have you ever lived in NOW for a week? It is really, really not easy. If you have never lived in NOW for longer than it takes to finish the big roller coaster at Six Flags, then shut your hole about putting Marines in jail for “War Crimes.”

I’m kind of confused by the lack of quotation marks. Are the last two paragraphs commentary?
Thanks

Ok, sorry. I’m an idiot. It’s all commentary because you are the marine- duh!

[quote]derek wrote:
Regarding the news blurb about the Marine who put two rounds (“doubletap”) in a wounded insurgent’s head in Fallujah, here’s a response from a Marine:

"It’s a safety issue, pure and simple. After assaulting through a target, we put a security round in everybody’s head. Sorry al-Reuters, there’s no paddy wagon rolling around Fallujah picking up “prisoners” and offering them a hot cup a joe, falafel, and a blanket. There’s no time to dick around on the target. You clear the space, dump the chumps, and move on.

Are Corpsmen expected to treat wounded terrorists? Negative. Hey Libs, worried about the defense budget? Well, it would be waste, fraud, and abuse for a Corpsman to expend one man-minute or a battle dressing on a terrorist. Its much cheaper to just spend the $.02 on a 5.56mm FMJ.

By the way, in our view, terrorists who chop off civilian’s heads are not prisoners, they are carcasses. Chopping off a civilian’s head is another reason why these idiots are known as “unlawful combatants.” It seems that most of the world’s journalists have forgotten that fact.

Let me be very clear about this issue. I have looked around the web, and many people get this concept, but there are some stragglers.

Here is your typical Marine sitrep (situation report): You just took fire from unlawful combatants (no uniform – breaking every Geneva Convention rule there is) shooting from a religious building, attempting to use the sanctuary status of their position as protection. But you’re in Fallujah now, and the Marine Corps has decided that they’re not playing that game this time. That was Najaf. So you set the mosque on fire and you hose down the terrorists with small arms, launch some AT-4s (Rockets), some 40MM grenades into the building and things quiet down. So you run over there, and find some tangos (bad guys) wounded and pretending to be dead. You are aware that suicide martyrdom is like really popular with these idiots, and they think taking some Marines with them would be really cool. So you can either risk your life and your fire team’s lives by having them cover you while you bend down and search a guy that you think is pretending to be dead for some reason. Most of the time these are the guys with the grenade or a vest made of explosives. Also, you don’t know who or what is in the next room. You’re already speaking English to the rest of your fire team or squad, which lets the terrorist know you are there and you are his enemy. You are speaking loud because your hearing is poor from shooting people for several days. So you know that there are many other rooms to enter, and that if anyone is still alive in those rooms, they know that Americans are in the mosque. Meanwhile (3 seconds later), you still have this terrorist (who was just shooting at you from a mosque) playing possum. What do you
do? You double tap his head, and you go to the next room, that’s what!

What about the Geneva Convention and all that Law of Land Warfare stuff? What about it? Without even addressing the issues at hand, your first thought should be, “I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.”

Bear in mind that this tactic of double tapping a fallen terrorist is a perpetual mindset that is reinforced by experience on a minute-by-minute basis. Secondly, you are fighting an unlawful combatant in a Sanctuary, which is a double No-No on his part. Third, tactically you are in no position to take “prisoners” because there are more rooms to search and clear, and the behavior of said terrorist indicates that he is up to no good. “No good” in Fallujah is a very large place, and the low end of no good and the high end of no good are fundamentally the same … Marines end up getting hurt or killed. So there is no compelling reason for you to do anything but double tap this idiot and get on with the mission.

If you are a veteran, then everything I have just written is self evident. If you are not a veteran, then at least try to put yourself in the situation. Remember, in Fallujah there is no yesterday, there is no tomorrow, there is only now. Right NOW. Have you ever lived in NOW for a week? It is really, really not easy. If you have never lived in NOW for longer than it takes to finish the big roller coaster at Six Flags, then shut your hole about putting Marines in jail for “War Crimes.”[/quote]

You had me at “terrorists who chop off civilian’s heads are not prisoners…”

[quote]derek wrote:
Regarding the news blurb about the Marine who put two rounds (“doubletap”) in a wounded insurgent’s head in Fallujah, here’s a response from a Marine:

"It’s a safety issue, pure and simple. After assaulting through a target, we put a security round in everybody’s head. Sorry al-Reuters, there’s no paddy wagon rolling around Fallujah picking up “prisoners” and offering them a hot cup a joe, falafel, and a blanket. There’s no time to dick around on the target. You clear the space, dump the chumps, and move on.

Are Corpsmen expected to treat wounded terrorists? Negative. Hey Libs, worried about the defense budget? Well, it would be waste, fraud, and abuse for a Corpsman to expend one man-minute or a battle dressing on a terrorist. Its much cheaper to just spend the $.02 on a 5.56mm FMJ.

By the way, in our view, terrorists who chop off civilian’s heads are not prisoners, they are carcasses. Chopping off a civilian’s head is another reason why these idiots are known as “unlawful combatants.” It seems that most of the world’s journalists have forgotten that fact.

Let me be very clear about this issue. I have looked around the web, and many people get this concept, but there are some stragglers.

Here is your typical Marine sitrep (situation report): You just took fire from unlawful combatants (no uniform – breaking every Geneva Convention rule there is) shooting from a religious building, attempting to use the sanctuary status of their position as protection. But you’re in Fallujah now, and the Marine Corps has decided that they’re not playing that game this time. That was Najaf. So you set the mosque on fire and you hose down the terrorists with small arms, launch some AT-4s (Rockets), some 40MM grenades into the building and things quiet down. So you run over there, and find some tangos (bad guys) wounded and pretending to be dead. You are aware that suicide martyrdom is like really popular with these idiots, and they think taking some Marines with them would be really cool. So you can either risk your life and your fire team’s lives by having them cover you while you bend down and search a guy that you think is pretending to be dead for some reason. Most of the time these are the guys with the grenade or a vest made of explosives. Also, you don’t know who or what is in the next room. You’re already speaking English to the rest of your fire team or squad, which lets the terrorist know you are there and you are his enemy. You are speaking loud because your hearing is poor from shooting people for several days. So you know that there are many other rooms to enter, and that if anyone is still alive in those rooms, they know that Americans are in the mosque. Meanwhile (3 seconds later), you still have this terrorist (who was just shooting at you from a mosque) playing possum. What do you
do? You double tap his head, and you go to the next room, that’s what!

What about the Geneva Convention and all that Law of Land Warfare stuff? What about it? Without even addressing the issues at hand, your first thought should be, “I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.”

Bear in mind that this tactic of double tapping a fallen terrorist is a perpetual mindset that is reinforced by experience on a minute-by-minute basis. Secondly, you are fighting an unlawful combatant in a Sanctuary, which is a double No-No on his part. Third, tactically you are in no position to take “prisoners” because there are more rooms to search and clear, and the behavior of said terrorist indicates that he is up to no good. “No good” in Fallujah is a very large place, and the low end of no good and the high end of no good are fundamentally the same … Marines end up getting hurt or killed. So there is no compelling reason for you to do anything but double tap this idiot and get on with the mission.

If you are a veteran, then everything I have just written is self evident. If you are not a veteran, then at least try to put yourself in the situation. Remember, in Fallujah there is no yesterday, there is no tomorrow, there is only now. Right NOW. Have you ever lived in NOW for a week? It is really, really not easy. If you have never lived in NOW for longer than it takes to finish the big roller coaster at Six Flags, then shut your hole about putting Marines in jail for “War Crimes.”[/quote]

I am not in the marines or army but I agree with everything you stated.
When it comes down to it, I would rather have them cover THEIR ass then worry about an insurgent getting back up and taking their life.
But then again, my opinion isnt always agreed with. As in getting our men the fuck out of their and wiping them out. Put our troops at our borders. You dont get in.

I know my response is going to be stereotypical but if you whack somebody, you make sure they STAY whacked.

OOORAH !!

I’d have to agree with the original post. I never served, but I have a immesurable amount of respect for anyone who has. Most people don’t put themselves in a soldier’s shoes before flying off the handle about what’s right and wrong.

Also, about the terrorists beheading civilians, I think everyone should have to watch one of those videos before they’re aloud to vote on issues regarding the current situation. This goes for members of House and Senate, Presidents, and civilians. I don’t think most people actually “get” how terrible an act that is until they’ve watched it happen.

I would have only put one bullet in his head unless I had an endless supply of ammo. I might need that second bullet when it could mean my life. Besides, don’t they issue KA-BARs anymore?

Wow, they must have thrown out the rules. During Operation Anaconda we were saving bodies like Mcdonalds Monopoly peices.

How times have changed.

Spent 10 years in the Army. We always trained to double tap because when you are taking an objective the last thing you want is someone that you think is dead to get up behind you and shoot you.

Of course nice thing about 3 round bursts is you usually got the job done the first time. Same thing goes with the shooting center mass. Purpose is to hit the larges part visible so that you will increase the odds that you hit the target.

Put 2 rounds in the chest then when you go by 1 in the head for good measure.

[quote]Avoids Roids wrote:
I would have only put one bullet in his head unless I had an endless supply of ammo. I might need that second bullet when it could mean my life. Besides, don’t they issue KA-BARs anymore?[/quote]

They do, but “kaybars” as we called them, require you to get danger close, IED would kill you.

I don’t see the point of 2 shots, one 5.56 would do it. And if they’re worried about lethality, issue JHPs!

They can shoot wounded enamies but not use JHP? Makes little sense to me.

[quote]Roy wrote:
Avoids Roids wrote:
I would have only put one bullet in his head unless I had an endless supply of ammo. I might need that second bullet when it could mean my life. Besides, don’t they issue KA-BARs anymore?

They do, but “kaybars” as we called them, require you to get danger close, IED would kill you.

I don’t see the point of 2 shots, one 5.56 would do it. And if they’re worried about lethality, issue JHPs!

They can shoot wounded enamies but not use JHP? Makes little sense to me.[/quote]

You can’t use jhps because they are forbidden byt he geneva convention, hahaha. Seriously, they might hurt someone.

im sorry,who is bitching that our troops are comitting war crimes?they need to be slapped and reminded of the phrase “all is fair in love and war”.the gen convention is som bs we use to seem civilized,it has no pertience on the battlefiled.

I signed up for the draft and now i hear they’re pushing to get conscription passed within 2 years,if i get drafted and sent into combat ill break any rule i have to if it keeps me alive,better him then me,its always been my motto

As far as a medic treating the enemy wounded that would only take place after the objective has been secured.

In the situation that was referenced my understanding is they came back to secure the location so the double tap would be ok but if it had already been secured and they knew the area was clear of active enemy then it would be the medics duty to treat any wounded, friend or foe.

Of course when you have these ragheads willing to cut off someones head and hide behind women and children you sort of loose respect for them.

[quote]derek wrote:
Regarding the news blurb about the Marine who put two rounds (“doubletap”) in a wounded insurgent’s head in Fallujah, here’s a response from a Marine:

"It’s a safety issue, pure and simple. After assaulting through a target, we put a security round in everybody’s head. Sorry al-Reuters, there’s no paddy wagon rolling around Fallujah picking up “prisoners” and offering them a hot cup a joe, falafel, and a blanket. There’s no time to dick around on the target. You clear the space, dump the chumps, and move on.

Are Corpsmen expected to treat wounded terrorists? Negative. Hey Libs, worried about the defense budget? Well, it would be waste, fraud, and abuse for a Corpsman to expend one man-minute or a battle dressing on a terrorist. Its much cheaper to just spend the $.02 on a 5.56mm FMJ.

By the way, in our view, terrorists who chop off civilian’s heads are not prisoners, they are carcasses. Chopping off a civilian’s head is another reason why these idiots are known as “unlawful combatants.” It seems that most of the world’s journalists have forgotten that fact.

Let me be very clear about this issue. I have looked around the web, and many people get this concept, but there are some stragglers.

Here is your typical Marine sitrep (situation report): You just took fire from unlawful combatants (no uniform – breaking every Geneva Convention rule there is) shooting from a religious building, attempting to use the sanctuary status of their position as protection. But you’re in Fallujah now, and the Marine Corps has decided that they’re not playing that game this time. That was Najaf. So you set the mosque on fire and you hose down the terrorists with small arms, launch some AT-4s (Rockets), some 40MM grenades into the building and things quiet down. So you run over there, and find some tangos (bad guys) wounded and pretending to be dead. You are aware that suicide martyrdom is like really popular with these idiots, and they think taking some Marines with them would be really cool. So you can either risk your life and your fire team’s lives by having them cover you while you bend down and search a guy that you think is pretending to be dead for some reason. Most of the time these are the guys with the grenade or a vest made of explosives. Also, you don’t know who or what is in the next room. You’re already speaking English to the rest of your fire team or squad, which lets the terrorist know you are there and you are his enemy. You are speaking loud because your hearing is poor from shooting people for several days. So you know that there are many other rooms to enter, and that if anyone is still alive in those rooms, they know that Americans are in the mosque. Meanwhile (3 seconds later), you still have this terrorist (who was just shooting at you from a mosque) playing possum. What do you
do? You double tap his head, and you go to the next room, that’s what!

What about the Geneva Convention and all that Law of Land Warfare stuff? What about it? Without even addressing the issues at hand, your first thought should be, “I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.”

Bear in mind that this tactic of double tapping a fallen terrorist is a perpetual mindset that is reinforced by experience on a minute-by-minute basis. Secondly, you are fighting an unlawful combatant in a Sanctuary, which is a double No-No on his part. Third, tactically you are in no position to take “prisoners” because there are more rooms to search and clear, and the behavior of said terrorist indicates that he is up to no good. “No good” in Fallujah is a very large place, and the low end of no good and the high end of no good are fundamentally the same … Marines end up getting hurt or killed. So there is no compelling reason for you to do anything but double tap this idiot and get on with the mission.

If you are a veteran, then everything I have just written is self evident. If you are not a veteran, then at least try to put yourself in the situation. Remember, in Fallujah there is no yesterday, there is no tomorrow, there is only now. Right NOW. Have you ever lived in NOW for a week? It is really, really not easy. If you have never lived in NOW for longer than it takes to finish the big roller coaster at Six Flags, then shut your hole about putting Marines in jail for “War Crimes.”[/quote]

Best post in a LONG time. This should be a sticky and mandatory reading.

You’re absolutely right and when I’m in the Marines and find myself in his situation I would do the same thing. I’m going to copy this and email it to every lib I know.

I need to add this… I am NOT a Marine. Just a normal American that happens to respect the men and women that fight, bleed and die for my freedom. I posted this because of my love for my country and my belief that murderous cowards need to be very DEAD, like right now!

Carry on Marine, Carry on…
Semper Fi

This basically amounts to circular reasoning due to the amount of unwarranted and hidden assumptions that must be made in order for it to have any validity. It will be my pleasure to point out some of them:

  1. The implicit assumption that you and every member of your forces qualifies as a “lawful combatant” and that any enemy you encounter qualifies as the opposite thereof.

This is a common propaganda technique used by the Nazi’s and many others. Basically, you assume that your enemy is subhuman from the start, and thereby the burden of moral justification is largely eliminated. You have, in effect, a priori justification for any action you choose to take. It’s powerful stuff when instilled in the minds of ignorant fascist youths (an accurate description of every organized fighting force).

  1. If the enemy has sworn to kill you, and you have done likewise, and they happen to succeed in their objective through, let’s say, a martyrdom operation, then this makes them…“idiots”? Sorry, does not compute. Where is the respect for the enemy, who is fighting an intruder in his native land? Oh, right, they get no respect because they’re subhuman waste.

The military. It ain’t exactly for thinking men, no sireee.

Git 'er on!
gunblast