Double Tap Marine!

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]JeffR wrote:
To my friends, Derek/Pat, please do not get so worked up about the Anti-Americans. They love making you upset. Just think of them as the ultimate expression of free speech. If there weren’t people protecting them, they could never spout such nonsense. In a way, they are a miracle of the U.S.’ system. They are like extra fat that couldn’t exist if there wasn’t protection.
[/quote]

I don’t get worked up. Believe it or not, I actually find it enjoyable. Something to do while running my scripts and upgrades.
It really wouldn’t be much fun if everybody aggreed.
Besides I find it enlightening how ignorant some people can be, but I am under no illusion that anything I say will change their minds. I also don’t want “browsers” to think of us meatheads as supporting one side or another. They need to know there is a balance. There is ignorance and wisdom. Both are united under the bar.
It’s also interesting to see the way people think and intellectual pissing contests people get into. But all in all it wouldn’t be much fun with out some good old fasion name calling.

122

[quote]orion wrote:

Klestil was our president and that means that he had little to no power in day-to-day politics.

So, even if I knew what you are referring to, our president could not do it without triggering a constitutional crisis.

Plus, calling Klestil a nazi is wrong, you would not have to search hard to find them in Austrian politics but Klestil was never one of them.[/quote]

Perhaps I had it confused with Schroder in Dutchland. It wasn’t a big deal and I definatelty wasn’t calling anybody a Nazi. I was genuinly curious whatever came of the effort. Actually, I do think it was Schroder. The Italians “clean house” from time to time also. This is a common problem in that region. But, if correct, Schroder’s effort was the most aggressive. I left Europe in the middle of that and never found out what happened.

123

[quote]hedo wrote:
orion wrote:
JeffR wrote:

Remember they cannot wrap their minds around the concept that without voluntary laws and people upholding those laws, the strong would erase them and take all their things.

JeffR

Yes, that`s what really worries me.

That someone “strong” will take away all my belongings from poor, weak, pacifist me…

Someday you will explain to us why you are fighting for the rule of law abroad, while your constitution is pissed upon by judges and politicians in Washington, but I am sure in your mind it all works somehow.

You’ll love sharia law. Your guest workers will insist on it.

In your mind, it will all work somehow.

[/quote]

How many incidents involving Austrian muslims were there? Wonder why that is?

And yes, in few hundred years they will have outreproduced us. Let us start worrying in 50 years or so.

One look in a Viennese phonebook should convince you that we have assimilated more immigrants than New York.

124

[quote]blacksheep wrote:
Grimnuruk made the statement,
“…the guy who has to make the split second decision that can mean life or death for him, his fellow Marines, or an unknown/insurgent/civilian/foreign fighter, etc. No one here can say what they would have done in his place unless they have been through almost exactly the same…situation,…”
The key words are “…split second decision…”

I am a Vietnam Veteran, 1969, 11th ACR and an OIF Veteran, 2004, 124th Cav, 36th ID, TXANG, and am presently retired.

During all of my training and in training others in fighting the enemy, the key word was to make sure that it was a “Catastrophic” kill. That the enemy could not rise and kill you.

While the Double Tap was a scenario many had to deal with, may I give another scenario that was dealt with on many occasions with the “…split second decision…” in mind.

While on QRF (Quick Reaction Force), we were called out to secure an area where a civilian convoy had been ambushed. We were to set up a hasty road block and wait for the Area Security Teams to come out and investigate the ambush. My team had set up south of the area and had about eight to nine vehicles in line when all of a sudden the rear vehicle about 100 meters away pulls out of line and at a high rate of speed moves towards our location. Thoughts come to mind:
VBIED (VECHICLE BORNE IED).
It’s getting closer.
Insurgent forcing civilians to drive.
It’s getting closer.
Civilians doing stupid.
It’s getting closer.
Fellow troopers on ground.
It’s getting closer.
Do we take them out.
It’s getting closer.
Do we take car’s engine out only.
It’s getting closer.
I jump behind the open door of our vehicle and fire at the engine block and direct my gunner to do the same with his Cal. 50. The vehicle is stopped, the two civilians are shook up, and after checking we find that they were not a threat, just doing stupid. Go figure. Was this the right action to take? In this instance it was but what about the next time.

As to Double Tap or Catastrophic Kill, in that split second you do what it takes to protect your fellow troopers and yourself.
[/quote]

You guys have my deepest respect. Thank you for your service to this country.

125

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Headhunter wrote:

Tell me, do you consider ANYTHING worth fighting for? Would you favor removing a dictator who you thought was about to unleash WMDs on Belgium? Should you wait until you see little children dying from bio-agents before you, in your infinite wisdom, decide to take action?

Perhaps you can explain to us why you send 19 year olds to their death then?

And please, don’t give me that crap about WMD. We knew then that there weren’t any. We ALL know now that there weren’t any.

Is it your defence that you’re a stupid and arrogant mofo that believed the evidence Rummy fabricated? Is that what you’re saying.

And I really don’t see how you’re umbrella is protecting anybody. Are you still convinced that attacking Iraq was justified? Are you still convinced that it is helping in the war on terror? Because if you are, than you’re clearly in a state of denial.
Not stupid enough to enlist though.

How’s that cough going?[/quote]

Not going to answer the question, are you Mr. GD Coward? I left it up intentionally so maybe you’d try, though I doubt it.

How did YOU know there were no WMDs? Self-delusions of Godhood? Wouldn’t doubt it.

Then, you post attack me because of my being an asthmatic. Wow, what a class act you are. Does everyone around you call you a stupid arrogant asshole? Maybe they’ve got something there.

126

[quote]hedo wrote:
orion wrote:
JeffR wrote:

Remember they cannot wrap their minds around the concept that without voluntary laws and people upholding those laws, the strong would erase them and take all their things.

JeffR

Yes, that`s what really worries me.

That someone “strong” will take away all my belongings from poor, weak, pacifist me…

Someday you will explain to us why you are fighting for the rule of law abroad, while your constitution is pissed upon by judges and politicians in Washington, but I am sure in your mind it all works somehow.

You’ll love sharia law. Your guest workers will insist on it.

In your mind, it will all work somehow.

[/quote]

I’m hoping that Sharia Law gets introduced in Belgium. Maybe Wreckless might actually find something to stand up against…

Nah…he wouldn’t.

127

[quote]orion wrote:
hedo wrote:
orion wrote:
JeffR wrote:

Remember they cannot wrap their minds around the concept that without voluntary laws and people upholding those laws, the strong would erase them and take all their things.

JeffR

Yes, that`s what really worries me.

That someone “strong” will take away all my belongings from poor, weak, pacifist me…

Someday you will explain to us why you are fighting for the rule of law abroad, while your constitution is pissed upon by judges and politicians in Washington, but I am sure in your mind it all works somehow.

You’ll love sharia law. Your guest workers will insist on it.

In your mind, it will all work somehow.

How many incidents involving Austrian muslims were there? Wonder why that is?

And yes, in few hundred years they will have outreproduced us. Let us start worrying in 50 years or so.

One look in a Viennese phonebook should convince you that we have assimilated more immigrants than New York.[/quote]

Doubtful. People pour into NYC for the freedom and opportunity. Europe doesn’t play nice with the foriegners. Lip service mainly.

They are outfucking and outworking you already. 50 years is plenty of time.

128

You are all going off topic. We were discussing whether double tapping a wounded terrorist was the right thing to do and practically everyone agreed that it was. So Wreckless and Orion and whoever else that is on your side why don’t you put aside your view on whether this war is right or not and tell us what you would have done in this Marine’s place?

129

[quote]hedo wrote:
orion wrote:
hedo wrote:
orion wrote:
JeffR wrote:

Remember they cannot wrap their minds around the concept that without voluntary laws and people upholding those laws, the strong would erase them and take all their things.

JeffR

Yes, that`s what really worries me.

That someone “strong” will take away all my belongings from poor, weak, pacifist me…

Someday you will explain to us why you are fighting for the rule of law abroad, while your constitution is pissed upon by judges and politicians in Washington, but I am sure in your mind it all works somehow.

You’ll love sharia law. Your guest workers will insist on it.

In your mind, it will all work somehow.

How many incidents involving Austrian muslims were there? Wonder why that is?

And yes, in few hundred years they will have outreproduced us. Let us start worrying in 50 years or so.

One look in a Viennese phonebook should convince you that we have assimilated more immigrants than New York.

Doubtful. People pour into NYC for the freedom and opportunity. Europe doesn’t play nice with the foriegners. Lip service mainly.

They are outfucking and outworking you already. 50 years is plenty of time.

[/quote]

To answere to that seriously there is no way for that to happen because a) they will beginn to adopt the welfare mentality (the lure of socialism is oh so strong) or b) our welfare systems are going to collapse and Austrians will need to get off their asses and, horribile dictu, work…

130

[quote]40yarddash wrote:
You are all going off topic. We were discussing whether double tapping a wounded terrorist was the right thing to do and practically everyone agreed that it was. So Wreckless and Orion and whoever else that is on your side why don’t you put aside your view on whether this war is right or not and tell us what you would have done in this Marine’s place?[/quote]

I?d be very interested in knowing that anyone I think is dead actually stays so when I turn my back on him.

I`m a selfish bastard that way.

131

panvet34 stated,

“As far as a medic treating the enemy wounded, that would only take place after the objective has been secured…if it had already been secured and they knew the area was clear of active enemy then it would be the medics duty to treat any wounded, friend or foe…”

First let me say that the above does not include homicide bombers. They want to die so let us oblige them.

As for treating the enemy, once the objective has been taken and secured, you first tend to your own then you look after the enemy.

Speaking of the enemy, I remember watching a special on the 50th Anniversary of the Normandy Invasion during WW II. One of the major networks reporter was on the beach with an American and a German Veteran. The reporter point blank asked the American Veteran if he still held any bitterness towards the German Veteran. Instantly my thoughts went back to July, 1969.

Our unit, for two weeks had been in constant contact with the 209th North Vietnamese Army (NVA) Regiment. We eventually chased them to their bunker complex basecamp where they held their ground and a near seven hour continuous firefight ensued. After the bunker complex had been overtaken and secured, we tended to our KIA and WIA and eventually the enemy.

After our KIA and WIA had been Medivaced out, I was sent out as security for two fellow troopers who were carrying out an Enemy WIA to be Medivaced out also. As we waited for the Medivac to come in, I felt a tug on my trousers and as I looked down, I looked into the eyes of the enemy Soldier and saw pain and immediately, compassion went out to this man, a father, son, husband, or brother who just earlier was tyring to kill me and I, him. He, as I, was just trying to stay alive and eventually, to return home.

My thoughts faded and I continued to listen to the answer the American Veteran gave the reporter. He said “How can I still hold any bitterness toward this man who just as I was doing what he thought was right. We were Soldiers just doing our duty.”

Though War, as stated somewhere, is but to kill, destroy, and maim, there is still inherent within civil and moral man compassion.

This may be a little off the original topic but I wanted to give the flip side of Double Tap. Maybe somthing can be drawn from the above.

132

[quote]40yarddash wrote:
You are all going off topic. We were discussing whether double tapping a wounded terrorist was the right thing to do and practically everyone agreed that it was. So Wreckless and Orion and whoever else that is on your side why don’t you put aside your view on whether this war is right or not and tell us what you would have done in this Marine’s place?[/quote]

Orion can do that…Wreckless can’t stop frothing at the mouth over his Bush-hatred.

133

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Orion can do that…Wreckless can’t stop frothing at the mouth over his Bush-hatred.

[/quote]

Who gives a fuck really. They are not americans and have no real stake in this conversation other than to berate. They have no real militaries to speak of in their countires so they pick on ours.

134

[quote]pat36 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Orion can do that…Wreckless can’t stop frothing at the mouth over his Bush-hatred.

Who gives a fuck really. They are not americans and have no real stake in this conversation other than to berate. They have no real militaries to speak of in their countires so they pick on ours.[/quote]

Take a map.

Then a ruler.

Afterwards try to determine who lives closer to the Middle East.

I know that war is Gods way of teaching Americans geography but you could be up to speed by now…

Plus there are plenty of ways to critisize Austrias military.

Billions of Euros and one year of state slavery for an institution that could not defeat Liechtenstein?

135

[quote]pat36 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Orion can do that…Wreckless can’t stop frothing at the mouth over his Bush-hatred.

Who gives a fuck really. They are not americans and have no real stake in this conversation other than to berate. They have no real militaries to speak of in their countires so they pick on ours.[/quote]

Plus, very, very soon, the US will be number 4 economically after China, India and the EU, not necessarily in that order.

Don?t worry we will listen or maybe we wont, because truth is really all about power isnt it?

136

[quote]orion wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Orion can do that…Wreckless can’t stop frothing at the mouth over his Bush-hatred.

Who gives a fuck really. They are not americans and have no real stake in this conversation other than to berate. They have no real militaries to speak of in their countires so they pick on ours.

Plus, very, very soon, the US will be number 4 economically after China, India and the EU, not necessarily in that order.

Don?t worry we will listen or maybe we wont, because truth is really all about power isnt it? [/quote]

Keep us posted on that.

Is this what keep’s old europe amused these days.

137

[quote]hedo wrote:
orion wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Orion can do that…Wreckless can’t stop frothing at the mouth over his Bush-hatred.

Who gives a fuck really. They are not americans and have no real stake in this conversation other than to berate. They have no real militaries to speak of in their countires so they pick on ours.

Plus, very, very soon, the US will be number 4 economically after China, India and the EU, not necessarily in that order.

Don?t worry we will listen or maybe we wont, because truth is really all about power isnt it?

Keep us posted on that.

Is this what keep’s old europe amused these days.

[/quote]

Hedo,

I refuse to believe that orion speaks for all Austrians. There have to be people who can understand the threat that iran poses. There have to be people who remember the Marshall plan and are grateful.

I cannot believe that all of the Austrians are as mentally bankrupt.

JeffR

138

[quote]JeffR wrote:
hedo wrote:
orion wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Orion can do that…Wreckless can’t stop frothing at the mouth over his Bush-hatred.

Who gives a fuck really. They are not americans and have no real stake in this conversation other than to berate. They have no real militaries to speak of in their countires so they pick on ours.

Plus, very, very soon, the US will be number 4 economically after China, India and the EU, not necessarily in that order.

Don?t worry we will listen or maybe we wont, because truth is really all about power isnt it?

Keep us posted on that.

Is this what keep’s old europe amused these days.

Hedo,

I refuse to believe that orion speaks for all Austrians. There have to be people who can understand the threat that iran poses. There have to be people who remember the Marshall plan and are grateful.

I cannot believe that all of the Austrians are as mentally bankrupt.

JeffR

[/quote]

Orion is a hard-core socialists American-hater. I’ve been to Austria several times, never saw one ounce of his anti-American sentiment in any natives I met. They are pretty humble about the whole WWI and WWII, greatest loss of human life in history, holocaust, world domination, master race thing.

139

[quote]PGJ wrote:

Orion is a hard-core socialists American-hater. I’ve been to Austria several times, never saw one ounce of his anti-American sentiment in any natives I met. They are pretty humble about the whole WWI and WWII, greatest loss of human life in history, holocaust, world domination, master race thing.

[/quote]

Socialist? Moi !?!

Do you listen to anything other than the voices inside your own head?

140

[quote]orion wrote:
PGJ wrote:

Orion is a hard-core socialists American-hater. I’ve been to Austria several times, never saw one ounce of his anti-American sentiment in any natives I met. They are pretty humble about the whole WWI and WWII, greatest loss of human life in history, holocaust, world domination, master race thing.

Socialist? Moi !?!

Do you listen to anything other than the voices inside your own head?[/quote]

Orion is a Libertarian, favoring very minimal government. Read more of his posts. He hates big government.