Double Tap Marine!

[quote]BH6 wrote:
I don’t mind being called a robot, a facist, a mercenary, a dumb 18 year old who doesn’t know better, a murderer, and a nazi, but being called a war criminal really hurts.
[/quote]

Fortunately, the only time you will ever be called a war criminal is if you break the “law” and are found guilty in a court of law or end up being captured by the opposition. I’d rather be a war criminal than be maimed or seriously wounded because I let someone get one over on me. I could possibly live with myself for that.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
derek wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

BTW, the military is not strictly voluntary. It’s voluntary like all paid jobs are voluntary except you can be thrown in prison if you try to quit. That makes you prisoner mercenaries–robotic prisoner mercenaries. Obey your orders robots!

Yeah, they also know that going in and they also realize that they may die in combat yet join up anyway. You are such a pansy.

Let me guess, you’re a lover, not a fighter?

One volutneer soldier has more balls than you and I put together (the females included).

You shouldn’t make assumptions about people by what they write. Like me making the assumption that you are a teenager who believes everything he/she is told. That being said, your sentimental rhetoric doesn’t mean anything.

There has not been one war fought since the civil war that has been strictly about the safety of US soil, citizens, or interests. Am I sad that Americans lost there lives? I am but not because I think it was necessary for them to die in war.

How many 17 - 20 year old kids actually consider this when joining the military? I certainly didn’t. You probably don’t. Kids these days only get the glory of war spoon fed to them. It’s always about honor and core values. None of these vales can be criticized by their dissenters, by the way.

They are absolute, according to tradition; and this makes them dangerous for the average person. This is no different than the dogma of religious tradition.

If you want to have an opinion about the military and its traditions it is best to join and decide for yourself. Don’t let me or anyone (parents and relatives included) try to convince you of what it is–though I would consider an opinion from first hand knowledge more relevant than one that is not. Still, be skeptical and decide for yourself.[/quote]

Trust me asshole, I wouldn’t want anyone I know getting his military info “first hand” from you. You are the guy on the “Dustin Hoffman 9/11” thread trashing a Marine that dove on a grenade. You’re pseudo-intellectual bull shit isn’t anything I would want my son to hear.

I am also wondering if you are even from the USA. As I posted yesterday, you sound like a Euro that hates the states.

[quote]olderguy wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
derek wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

BTW, the military is not strictly voluntary. It’s voluntary like all paid jobs are voluntary except you can be thrown in prison if you try to quit. That makes you prisoner mercenaries–robotic prisoner mercenaries. Obey your orders robots!

Yeah, they also know that going in and they also realize that they may die in combat yet join up anyway. You are such a pansy.

Let me guess, you’re a lover, not a fighter?

One volutneer soldier has more balls than you and I put together (the females included).

You shouldn’t make assumptions about people by what they write. Like me making the assumption that you are a teenager who believes everything he/she is told. That being said, your sentimental rhetoric doesn’t mean anything.

There has not been one war fought since the civil war that has been strictly about the safety of US soil, citizens, or interests. Am I sad that Americans lost there lives? I am but not because I think it was necessary for them to die in war.

How many 17 - 20 year old kids actually consider this when joining the military? I certainly didn’t. You probably don’t. Kids these days only get the glory of war spoon fed to them. It’s always about honor and core values. None of these vales can be criticized by their dissenters, by the way.

They are absolute, according to tradition; and this makes them dangerous for the average person. This is no different than the dogma of religious tradition.

If you want to have an opinion about the military and its traditions it is best to join and decide for yourself. Don’t let me or anyone (parents and relatives included) try to convince you of what it is–though I would consider an opinion from first hand knowledge more relevant than one that is not. Still, be skeptical and decide for yourself.

Trust me asshole, I wouldn’t want anyone I know getting his military info “first hand” from you. You are the guy on the “Dustin Hoffman 9/11” thread trashing a Marine that dove on a grenade. You’re pseudo-intellectual bull shit isn’t anything I would want my son to hear.

I am also wondering if you are even from the USA. As I posted yesterday, you sound like a Euro that hates the states.[/quote]

No I didn’t trash him. I don’t even know him. I am trashing the idiotic rhetoric being posted about this “patrotic” deed. I don’t hate anyone or anything. I wouldn’t invest that much of myself to any one person.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

You shouldn’t make assumptions about people by what they write. Like me making the assumption that you are a teenager who believes everything he/she is told. That being said, your sentimental rhetoric doesn’t mean anything.

There has not been one war fought since the civil war that has been strictly about the safety of US soil, citizens, or interests. Am I sad that Americans lost there lives? I am but not because I think it was necessary for them to die in war.

[/quote]

I am FAR from a teenager. And I am FAR from a minority on this issue as you can read for yourself.

You write well but are certainly a pussy of the most disgusting kind. I will make that assumption with confidence.

You appear so very ungrateful of what you have been given, yes given.

Your attitude is repugnant. I’m finding it hard to put into words how your posts make me feel. Just knowing people with your mindset exist is somewhat depressing.

Don’t worry, I’ll get over it real quick though, I eat lunch at my wife’s diner a few times per week and sit with the old-timers that actually love this country and were brave enough to die for it if asked. They know I appreciate them because I tell them so. You should do the same instead of spewing your pseudo-intellectual BS.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

No I didn’t trash him. I don’t even know him. I am trashing the idiotic rhetoric being posted about this “patrotic” deed. I don’t hate anyone or anything. I wouldn’t invest that much of myself to any one person.[/quote]

Another example of why you are the antithesis to what makes men men and this country great.

Loser.

[quote]derek wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

No I didn’t trash him. I don’t even know him. I am trashing the idiotic rhetoric being posted about this “patrotic” deed. I don’t hate anyone or anything. I wouldn’t invest that much of myself to any one person.

Another example of why you are the antithesis to what makes men men and this country great.

Loser.

[/quote]

You mean he is the antithesis for individualism, caring for himself and his family first and never falling for BS like “patriotism”?

Patriotism…

Mwuahahahah!!!

Dying for your government as a virtue?

Now there is such a thing as dying for your loved ones and the things you believe in, but we dont call that "patriotism" dont we?

[quote]derek wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

You shouldn’t make assumptions about people by what they write. Like me making the assumption that you are a teenager who believes everything he/she is told. That being said, your sentimental rhetoric doesn’t mean anything.

There has not been one war fought since the civil war that has been strictly about the safety of US soil, citizens, or interests. Am I sad that Americans lost there lives? I am but not because I think it was necessary for them to die in war.

I am FAR from a teenager. And I am FAR from a minority on this issue as you can read for yourself.

You write well but are certainly a pussy of the most disgusting kind. I will make that assumption with confidence.

You appear so very ungrateful of what you have been given, yes given.

Your attitude is repugnant. I’m finding it hard to put into words how your posts make me feel. Just knowing people with your mindset exist is somewhat depressing.

Don’t worry, I’ll get over it real quick though, I eat lunch at my wife’s diner a few times per week and sit with the old-timers that actually love this country and were brave enough to die for it if asked. They know I appreciate them because I tell them so. You should do the same instead of spewing your pseudo-intellectual BS.

[/quote]
On this web-site or even in the “real world” you may not be a minority but that doesn’t make your opinion any more valid. The majority is more than capable of being in the wrong.

There is no such thing as a pseudo-intellectual. One either uses their intellect to their own benefit or not. I am just a person who has a differing point of view. You shouldn’t take it so seriously as I can assure you no one else does. They just come here to post their own opinions and or have them reinforced. This isn’t to say I think I am an exception. I accept that fact about myself.

I admit most freely that in many regards I am a “pussy”. I don’t pretend to be brave or sincere. I am quick to disregard that as ignorant, sentimentally driven tripe. The virtuosity of bravery is overrated and most often used as propaganda to fuel the flames of “group-think”.

Since I have never really had any of my own principals challenged directly I do not know what it means to stand up and take a defensive position–nor do I know if I would–nobody knows for sure until that happens. I can only make assumptions about what I know/feel right here and now.

As for people who have taken that leap of faith, congratulations! I guess that makes them better than everyone else. I’ll let other people think that. I do not. Nor do I think for one instant that this country has any “heroes”. It has people who do what they do for what ever reason. If they have a need to hear it or you have a need to say it that’s a different matter. I don’t buy into it.

[quote]orion wrote:
Patriotism…

Mwuahahahah!!!
[/quote]

When you become a US citizen you may better understand and relate to patriotism. It’s unfair of me to ask you to understand such a concept.

[quote]orion wrote:
Now there is such a thing as dying for your loved ones and the things you believe in, but we dont call that "patriotism" dont we?[/quote]

Actually that is how some of us define it. Where and how you die is what makes the difference.

You can fight a foe and die in your home and it’s called self-defense. You can do the same in a foriegn land (like WW2) and call it patriotism.

You can disparrage either man and his plight and be called a coward.

[quote]derek wrote:
orion wrote:
Patriotism…

Mwuahahahah!!!

When you become a US citizen you may better understand and relate to patriotism. It’s unfair of me to ask you to understand such a concept.

[/quote]

If only that fairytale only existed in the US…

[quote]derek wrote:
orion wrote:
Now there is such a thing as dying for your loved ones and the things you believe in, but we dont call that "patriotism" dont we?

Actually that is how some of us define it. Where and how you die is what makes the difference.

You can fight a foe and die in your home and it’s called self-defense. You can do the same in a foriegn land (like WW2) and call it patriotism.

You can disparrage either man and his plight and be called a coward.

[/quote]

Great…

The first thing that comes to your mind concerning “patriotism” is going somewhere else and killing people…

Next you will force little kids to pray to a piece of cloth…

Why not sacrifice a live animal instead, it is a much more visceral, direct and unadulerated experience.

Whew! You just became much less important to me, thanks.

Anybody who bitches about our soldiers using a double tap should be double tapped themselves, shut the fuck up and let them do their job so you still have yours.

[quote]MisterAmazing wrote:
Anybody who bitches about our soldiers using a double tap should be double tapped themselves, shut the fuck up and let them do their job so you still have yours. [/quote]

Abso-fucking-lutely!!

[quote]orion wrote:
Great…

The first thing that comes to your mind concerning “patriotism” is going somewhere else and killing people…

Next you will force little kids to pray to a piece of cloth…

Why not sacrifice a live animal instead, it is a much more visceral, direct and unadulerated experience.[/quote]

If defending the lives and future of one’s family and country (homeland)means killing, I’m ok with that. Only a scared little boy could argue the point. And I KNOW you will.

The rest of your post has me thinking you’re on an acid trip… Yikes!

[quote]Grimnuruk wrote:
Ok, Here I gotta say that we are very lucky in that most of the people we need to be thanking are DEAD. Very few of my Grandfather’s generation are left who fought in WWII, a real honest war of aggression and conquest. History shows us that these kinds of conquest attempts are now much rarer than smaller, asymmetrical maneuvers designed to gain without much loss or be noticed by the rest of the world. The conflicts you list tend be those of deterrence, where we/the U.S. as a superpower, must flex our muscle as it were, to the rest of the primates to ensure that we remain in our high socio-economic-military status. It is essential to note that these “lesser” conflicts serve the same purpose as the Ragnorak like convulsions of a the World Wars, just in a more limited (time, space, gains, losses) fashion.
In this connected “flat world” that we find ourselves in, no one can afford to deny that all the different status factors of a nation are intertwined. Our western standard of living cannot be removed from our Alpha Male status as a military superpower anymore than our demand for equal rights among races and sexes can.

There has to be certain amount of affluence, security and maturity for these to occur and that can require the painful acceptance of past violence on our behalf to achieve it.[/quote]
I’m well aware of the neocon strategy and the logic behind it, which is quite sound. It’s the premises which I disagree with. If you start with a faulty premise, you can’t end up in the right place no matter if every one of your subsequent decisions is correct.

I know that all of the minor interventions and invasions are justified as being part of a larger, global conflict - be it anti-terror, anti-drug, anti-fascist or bolshevist. If you accept the legitimacy of the latter, and you subscribe to the long-standing domino theory held by conservatives, then there is no choice but to support all of the minor interventions as they arise.

The problem with the overall strategy, at least from a Libertarian perspective, is that it starts to resemble a typical big government program. It grows and grows, feeding off itself until it breaks the laws of physics and becomes a perpetual motion machine. Of course, this can only occur through clever manipulation by politicians. Every failure and every success is used as a justification to either keep the program running or expand it. If a plane crashes, the incident is immediately used to justify increased governmental regulation of the airline industry. And if there are no plane crashes one year, the government takes the credit for it.

Libertarians are well aware of this trickery as it has been continually used to decieve the population and grossly enlarge the federal government over the past century.

Libertarians know that war is the largest government program of all and it has been used throughout history to scare populations into compliance and empower tyrants.

Quite simply, the ultimate realization of the neocon strategy is perpetual war for perpetual peace. This is considered unacceptable by strict Constitutionalists, for rather obvious reasons.

The war industry in America was set in motion by WWII and was largely sustained by inertia until September the 11th, 2001, which gave it another hefty push (some would raise questions about the convenient timing of such an event).

Neo-Conservatives and Libertarians also take different interpretations of past military conflicts, particularly the two world wars. Libertarian doctrine holds that the U.S. involvement in each of them was unnecessary and ultimately detrimental to the U.S. Libertarians readily accept the idea, as do neocons, that we are where we are today largely as a result of WWII. And that’s where they part company, since the latter group sees U.S. involvement in that conflict to be justified and the former does not.

I don’t think that anyone can build a case to refute the claim that what this country has been doing since the Spanish-American war amounts to imperialism. The only things left to discuss, then, are whether or not imperialism is justified, for whom, and on what grounds.

As the minor military conflicts pile up, they start to become disconnected from the larger, global conflict – in reality. Yet in the public sphere, this association is never damaged, so long as the government and the press choose to maintain it. Critics of isolated policies are defamed with the same derision that would otherwise be reserved for those who opposed the central strategy, even if this does not pertain to them.

I don’t think that neocons do a good enough job of explaining their strategy to their opponents. They could, perhaps, win some converts by improving in this area. What they ought to realize is that nobody (save for a tiny and neglible minority) genuinely “hates” America and wants to see it defeated. People, quite understandably, simply don’t see how invading places like Grenada and Kuwait is “making the world [or America] safe for democracy”. Neocons ought realize that every new invasion is NOT Operation D-Day – there has been and continues to be a boatload of corruption and profiteering associated with America’s global conflicts.

[quote]derek wrote:
orion wrote:
Great…

The first thing that comes to your mind concerning “patriotism” is going somewhere else and killing people…

Next you will force little kids to pray to a piece of cloth…

Why not sacrifice a live animal instead, it is a much more visceral, direct and unadulerated experience.

If defending the lives and future of one’s family and country (homeland)means killing, I’m ok with that. Only a scared little boy could argue the point. And I KNOW you will.

The rest of your post has me thinking you’re on an acid trip… Yikes![/quote]

Yes, killing someone, somewhere, thousands of miles from home…

These dirty rag-heads won`t bother you again…

Not that they did before…

And I don?t write sand-niggers because that would be just too easy…

Less than human, aren`t they?

If I killed an American in, lets say Omaha, just because I considered Austria to be a safer place after that and lets say Austria had the military might to pull it off, you would consider that to be…

…what exactly?

Well, who cares what you little sissy think, I`d be a patriot!

[quote]orion wrote:

Yes, killing someone, somewhere, thousands of miles from home…

These dirty rag-heads won`t bother you again…

Not that they did before…

And I don?t write sand-niggers because that would be just too easy…

Less than human, aren`t they?

If I killed an American in, lets say Omaha, just because I considered Austria to be a safer place after that and lets say Austria had the military might to pull it off, you would consider that to be…

…what exactly?

Well, who cares what you little sissy think, I`d be a patriot!

[/quote]

I would never call anyone a “dirty raghead” nor would I call anyone a “sand-nigger”. The very act of you raising those terms here makes you a complete asshole worthy of an ass-whoopin’ Nothing less. And don’t you even BEGIN to attribute that kind of language to me you dumbass punk. Learn some frigging manners.

No these “ragheads” as you call them killed a very good friend of mine in New York. You may recall the event.

Islamist terrorist acts have either been committed or foiled here in the U.S. and so many other countries including G.B. that it’s odd you don’t remember.

I do consider the enemy in a given battle a target for death. Not sure how a human can be “less than human”. But with your apparent bigotry, anything is possible.

If killing an single American would make Austria safer I’d hate to be an Austrian citizen.

If however the U.S. attacked Austria for no reason (like Japan attacked the U.S.) then it’d be your DUTY to kill an American soldier.

But we both know that’d never happen don’t we.

So keep on making your points using absurd references, you are VERY good at it.

As for the post about bravery. You are the exactopposite of what T-Nation is supposed to be. Standing up for your beliefs(that can mean your government too) and serving your country is on the greatest honors you can ever have. Bravery has been the most essential virtue in the history of man kind, the driving force that kept human kind alive from the stone age to the present. The deep places of my soul cringe with your spineless and disrespectful filth. You are here today because of the bravery of your ancestors. For you to fall back and say bravery is stupud is simply contradicting the fact that you are alive. Your ancestors would be in complete and utter disdain for you arrogant and downright gross comments. May you have a change of mind and heart.

I just realized I’ve been breaking two of my cardinal rules of debate;

  1. Never debate American patriotism with non-Americans… they’ll never get it.

  2. Never discuss politics with whiny, ungrateful brats.

My bad.