Let’s look at what the modern American view of family, children and life has produced: school shooters, boys who want to cut off their penises, an epidemic of depression and suicide, high school graduates who know less than students in the past, an inability to engage in social interactions, narcissism, etc. There is a reason why fewer people want to become teachers and current teachers are leaving the profession.
4 Likes
Weird…because I’ll bet parents spend WAY more time and money on children than in the past. But marriage is de-emphasized, co-parenting is here, so how? Maybe kids shouldn’t be the center of the universe and should learn to deal with not being so?
1 Like
Yeah.
Part of the family ≠ center of the universe.
I think the pendulum has swung too far on that one.
1 Like
And parents are not friends…they are parents and they need to act like parents
4 Likes
Kids need to know they are loved - ideally as part of a marriage or a committed relationship.
I left a bad marriage when my kids were eleven and thirteen. There were bumps, and I regret leaving now, but my kids are pretty good.
My wife made them the center of the world. I worked on instilling independence.
It has been a battle. My son, now 17, gets it. My daughter, now 20, not so much.
Both are entitled. Both work very hard, graduated with 4 point GPAs (son upcoming, 4.5 weighted with AP classes). They have never needed anything, unlike me. But both are high achieving.
Not sure how that worked out.
1 Like
That is pretty much how I was raised. When in company (outside just my mom and dad - I was a single child), if I wanted included in the conversation and said something, my dad would say, “Little boys are to be seen and not heard.” “Center of the universe?” I wasn’t even the most important person in my family of three, in fact, I was the least important.
My dad would often tell me to use my ears far more than I used my mouth.
1 Like
Agreed and I see the “friend” thing too often around parents, especially with younger kids.
That and making everything a situation for the child to “make a decision”. Like lady, your kid would choke to death on a rock thinking it was candy. Give the kid some guard rails until he’s at least smarter than your dog.
We started late, and at 41 with a 5 year old it can be interesting in parent groups full of twenty something’s.
1 Like
My dad used to say “You have two ears, two eyes, and one mouth.”
My grandfather also used to say “Never miss a good chance to shut up.” Which might be my favorite phrase of all time.
I had my first kid at forty, my second at 43.
I let them go as far as was safe. I let my five year old daughter run away. She got down to the curb, figured out she was better at home with those that loved her.
She is a Junior in college now, doing well. She finally ran away - to go to college.
I gave her back.
1 Like
“People in Hell want ice water.”
All the more reason to not have children, not to mention the expenses of everything today.
You mention this a lot. And I’ll repeat, perhaps verbatim, what I said last time you said this: It’s really not that bad.
It’s probably better to ask people who have actually had kids what they think about the cost of raising them than people who have never done it.
1 Like
It costs me time. That’s the worst part in my opinion.
I just googled it - average cost to raise a child to 18 is $237K.
That is before college. My daughter’s cost of attendance is $58k per year.
So another four years at $58K is $236K for a total of $473K.
I’ve got two kids, so $946K to 21.
Really not that bad.
I’ve read similar numbers but they seem aggressive. Right now, due to daycare, we are tracking higher per month than the projection but when she goes to kindergarten next year we drop a monthly bill from over $1k to basically food (and she’s tiny) and extracurricular totaling maybe $200. With various entertainment expenses and clothes in the mix, I would estimate she costs us under $500 per month. I know this will change as she gets older, eats more and develops hobbbies but money allocated to current activities will shift. I will buy her a car but that’s an optional thing.
Anyways, my point isn’t to argue but to hopefully put some silver in TL’s lining. Things often aren’t as bad as presented.
1 Like
It’s the most important part.
You don’t have to have kids.
If you know ahead of time that your priorities preclude parenthood, then you’ll be far ahead of the game than the people who found out by having one.
3 Likes
When I was 43 I had two kids in daycare in NY, $650 per week. My wife and I were both teachers, so they let us get away without paying for 52 weeks, let us take ten weeks off in the Summer.
So my son was newborn, my daughter was three, and I paid $675 for two years until my daughter went to Kindergarten, then $375 per week until my son went to Kindergarten.
Clothes, insurance, food, sports, totally adds up to at least $237K.
I would not do anything different.
While I say kids raise themselves, and they do (at least mine did), it is by far the greatest experience you can ever have. I mostly walked beside my kids, discussed questions, modeled behavior, and they turned out pretty good. I let them row their own boat.
I counseled them, never laid a hand on them (far different from my childhood), and listened to them.
They raised themselves.
I’d say there’s more of an ultimatum depending on how far I can get with my career or whatever the hell else I do in addition, to make money in the next decade or less.
In other words, I’ll fight for it. I need to become a high-ish earner. $82k is good as a single dude after graduating, but if I wanted to raise a kid, and also keep courting my wife. I’d like more money, 6 figure range $120k+. That’s very doable actually lol.
Not jerking you around at all, but why? What is your goal?
Kind of like should I bulk or cut - what is your goal?