Encouragement taken
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“There is several comforts to be had in a body count of one.” You listed many. A friend of mine spent three year involved in a body count of one, then two. Having watched from the sidelines, I can say, how fortunate I am for not having taken that detour in life. As expected, it has bulldozed his personal and family life. Watching him, I can say I am glad I have not done that to my wife and family.
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I am having a hard time getting through the entire article you posted but read the executive summary, scanned through much of the detailed article and found the below quoted information interesting. I agree with many points the guy makes, but largely disagree in his attempt to tie them, as red herrings, to sex essentially ending society. Responding point by point would literally require a doctorate thesis level of engagement so agreeing to disagree aside from commentary below will have to suffice.
“ The Four Sirens : Four unrelated forces simultaneously combined to entirely distort the balance of civilization built on the biological realities of men and women. Others have presented versions of the Four Sirens concept in the past, but I am choosing a slightly different definition of the Four Sirens :
Easy contraception (condoms, pills, and abortions): In the past, extremely few women ever had more than one or two sexual partners in their lives, as being an unwed mother led to poverty and social ostracization. Contraception made it possible for females to act on their urges of hypergamy.
‘No fault’ divorce, asset division, and alimony : In the past, a woman who wanted to leave her husband needed to prove misconduct on his part. Now, the law has changed to such a degree that a woman can leave her husband for no stated reason, yet is still entitled to payments from him for years to come. This incentivizes destruction because it enables women to transfer the costs of irresponsible behavior onto men and children.
Female economic freedom : Despite ‘feminists’ claiming that this is the fruit of their hard work, inventions like the vacuum cleaner, washing machine, and oven were the primary drivers behind liberating women from household chores and freeing them up to enter the workforce. These inventions compressed the chores that took a full day into just an hour or less. There was never any organized male opposition to women entering the workforce (in China, taxes were collected in a way that mandated female productivity), as more labor lowered labor costs while also creating new consumers. However, one of the main reasons that women married - financial support - was no longer a necessity.
Female entry into the workforce is generally a positive development for society, and I would be the first to praise this, if it were solely on the basis of merit (as old-school feminists had genuinely intended). Unfortunately, too much of this is now due to corrupt political lobbying to forcibly transfer resources from men to women.
- Female-Centric social engineering : Above and beyond the pro-woman divorce laws, further state interventions include the subsidization of single motherhood, laws that criminalize violence against women (but offer no protection to men who are the victims of violence by women, which happens just as often), and ‘sexual harassment’ laws with definitions so nebulous that women have the power to accuse men of anything without the man having any rights of his own.”
Siren 1:
I fail to see the problem. The author positions contraception as a negative, I disagree almost totally, excepting abortion. I do believe a fetus is a human life, abortion is murder and pregnancy is a risk of sex to consider, even with the other mitigating factors at play. In general, I love contraception. It has allowed participation in excellent sex with significantly reduced risk of both pregnancy and STD transmission. This is a very good thing. It would totally suck to be a poor outcast due to some sex I’ve had 
Siren 2:
No fault divorce, and taking half his shit. I agree this is bs. When you marry, it’s a commitment. If one partner chooses to leave the commitment and life built around it then they should be walking away from it all. Divorce for cause is another story, of course. I don’t see what this has to do with “body count”, however. And, if concerned, prenups are legally valid and available for circumventing such a situation.
Siren 3:
I flat out can’t imagine not allowing women to have economic freedom. Especially through subjugation via the aforementioned ostracism and shunning over personal sexual choice while limiting access to money. I like the fact that my wife is capable of taking care of herself, and chooses me vs. needs me. If I felt like my hand in marriage was necessary for survival for her I would feel like a slave master, not a husband. Not what I’m interested in. I’m also glad we were able to take our time and feel each other out without her feeling pressured to marry because she was over 18, out of the house and had the option of being a librarian or a maid or something. I also respect her professional accomplishments and do not believe the fact she has a vagina means they’re any less impactful than if a dude had been in her role. I do agree that coercion via DEI measures and affirmative action before it are bullshit. Coercion in general is bullshit. I also don’t see how sex changes any of this, especially when cueing Siren 1.
Siren 4:
I agree legal imbalances are bs. As an example it cracks me up that male teachers fucking students go to jail for decades while female teachers get a light smack on the wrist at worst. I don’t believe in government implemented social welfare in general, including single motherhood subsidies. But, cueing siren 3, I do believe in allowing equal opportunity access to economic resources, on a merit based and selective system. Not to be confused with DEI equitability.
I see a lot of contradictions in logic in these four sirens that permeated the article and can’t agree with the sum of its whole, even if some of the individual supporting arguments are hard to disagree with at surface level, on their own merit. It appears to suggest women should be kept as hapless creatures, afraid of ostracism (or likely stoning, in the authors culture), to be owned by men. While I can appreciate male and female differences, and prefer to be the dominant partner in my own relationship, I don’t see subjugation and effective slavery as the right path.
It was an interesting read but doesn’t really define the presumed problem of “body count” for me, in the context it was introduced. On this note, you and I actually agree. It’s not worth thinking about when meeting a woman.
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Thanks for taking the time out to read some of it and respond thoughtfully. I’m going to respond when I can. I predict my response will be lengthy and I think it would be rude to just give your post a like considering the effort in it. It’s difficult to even think while running around on the weekends with kids, as I’m sure you know.
I actually thought this thread was dead and we all had a silent understanding it was, which is why I stopped posting in it.
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I do understand and appreciate the consideration. This is my first slow weekend in a while.
I’m not up to date on about 200 posts that occurred during a weekend for me but wanted to come back to the article.
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Man: you’ve slept with how many men? You’re a slut.
Woman: you’re just insecure.
Could they both be right?
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Possibly… After 30 years…
I would still want to qualify at what point a woman becomes a slut, and suppose the answer would depend on how insecure the man is. Too bad if she checks the boxes for him and he turtles up anyways, and I would put the ownership of failure on him, not her.
Simple set theory would make an intersection of those two sets. To state that they are mutually exclusive would be the biggest stretch.
The largest problem is there is not a definitive definition of either a female slut or an insecure male. So it is difficult, if not impossible, to draw a precise conclusion.
Kids are kids. I know that I am super proud of mine, and it was a battle raising them. I paid $650 a week in day care while I started teaching in NYC, East New York. Took the 6:05 LIRR to Jamaica, the J/Z to Cleveland, taught until 3PM, stopped at the bodega, got two tall boys, J/Z to Jamaica, two more tall boys on the platform, train to my stop at 4:30.
When I picked up the kids, I would drive -Southern State to the Belt, to Conduit. After school, two hours in traffic to get my kids at day care.
Bought a house, taught summer school - LIRR to Penn, walk up to Hell’s Kitchen, teach until 2, Walk back to Penn, train to LI, then work on the house until 9PM.
Then, got a MA in English while working full time with two kids. Then, got an MFA while working full time with two kids.
Raising kids isn’t that hard once you get them started. They raise themselves. They are on loan to you. Raise them, give them back.
Raising kids isn’t that honorable. I mean, seriously, you got laid, knocked a girl up, she gave birth - many Asians pop them out in the rice field and just keep working.
We tend to try to take too much credit for raising kids. They are pretty indestructible. When we helicopter them, that’s when things get dicey.
Physically.
It’s pretty easy to mess them up in other ways.
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Not really.
You can make them bulletproof, and it is pretty easy. You just let them know they are loved. Every day, every way. Hold them, let them sleep on your stomach, tell them every day that they are loved.
I did not get that, fucked me up, so your point is valid.
My kids know they are loved.
Qualify at what point a man is insecure and suppose the answer would depend on how slutty the woman is.
What does this even mean? It sounds like some kind of godless Marxist view of family. Give them back to whom? Only a modern American could come up with such a soulless view of the family. There are obligations and duties that come with being a part of a family. Be you child, sibling, parent, etc. There is no loan; it’s forever.
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Reframing a response to deliver the same message is an interesting strategy.
My point is, maybe there is no right or wrong position. A woman is free to sleep around and a man is free to avoid marrying her. Don’t call the woman a slut and don’t call the man insecure.
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It becomes a “to each their own” thing pretty quickly.
If dude doesn’t like the attention seeker with the Ed Hardy Tattooed Titties ™ that throws he ass around like confetti, so be it.
Kinda like bears. I think they’re neat to look at, but I’m not moving to Kodiak island to play with the cubs.
I personally prefer women that understate their features and benefits.
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I am sorry that you don’t get me.
Did I mention godlessness or Marxism? Did you just pull this out of thin air. Have you raised kids?
Give them back to society. Raise kids so that they are productive, can enter society and be productive.
Again, you just don’t get me. You are a bit literal I think, and that is cool.
Yes, casting aspersions in order to other - those “Modern Americans.” Not like us traditional Americans, right?
Or, do you even identify as an American? How about human? I am sure you can identify as a human and recognize me as a fellow human.
Did I say anything that led you to believe that I am shirking obligations?
You seem to impute things that are not evident, to be very judgmental.
I’ve raised two pretty successful kids. The Universe loaned them to me, I raised them, and I am giving them back. It’s a metaphor, mystical stuff. I would encourage you to open up and explore the mystical world.
I will not respond to you again.
Best!
You answered it right there. I do not belong to society. Neither does my kid.
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He’s right. I will happily take any flak for agreeing with the resident contrarian.
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