Do This Routine Instead of That Dumb One

Training
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[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:

[quote]CraigGold55 wrote:
Will give the 5 day a run for two months, exactly how it’s written(well I switched up guillotine press instead of flat bb and rope extensions vs doing two similar skull crusher movements)

first time doing a true BB split…wish me luck.[/quote]

They’re not similar. Don’t switch out either of those for rope extensions, lol. Trust me.[/quote]

NM Don’t want to derail the thread.

I think another good post could be acceptable exercise substitutions. Just a thought.

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You should be fine switching one out with rope extensions man

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These are deadstop behind the head extensions. With the lying extensions I described, I do them on a bench so I can lower the bar past my head and then explode back up.

These are french presses, except I’d do them seated and with a pause in the stretched position before exploding back up.

That said. You don’t HAVE to do those exercises. They are just a combination my favorite exercises that I’ve found to work extremely well for making tri’s a standout bodypart. Pushdowns just aren’t the same, IMO.

64

That Max OT workout is actually almost identical to how I train now. Although I dont have the extra session for calves, forarms and traps. I just do it 4 on 1 off. I never have liked getting in the gym every day of the week, and then having 2 days off. I just dont feel like I need that time for recovery.

65

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
The amount of ridulous “critique my routine” threads is getting silly. Usually how it goes is I open up one of those threads, read it, smack my palm against my forehead and then sign off. I figure a thread with some good well designed preset BB routines should help a lot of these misguided individuals. I’ll start with 1 routine for now and add to it as I see fit (diff frequencies/splits/etc) if people like it.

*All exercises are ramped
*Numbers at end in parentheses are how many sets to failure to do on that exercise
*Rest 90-120 secs between sets, 2-3 mins if you did a set to failure on a compound movement and are about to do another set to failure on the same movement
*Should be able to finish these workouts in an hour or less

5 day split, 1x a week frequency

Monday- Chest/Calves

Incline Dumbbell Press - 4x 6-10 (2)
Flat Barbell Press - 3x 6-10 (1)
Decline Dumbbell press - 3x 6-10 (2)
Standing calf raises - 4x 8-10 (2) (1-2 mins rest for calves)
Seated calf raises - 3x 8-10 (2)
Leg press Calf raises - 3 x 12-15 (2)

Tuesday- Back

Pull ups - 50 or as many as you can do in 10 minutes
Barbell Rows - (torso at 45ish degree angle) 4x 8-10 (1)
Close neutral grip pulldowns - 3x 8-10 (2) (really like 3 sec negatives on these)
Seated straight bar rows - 3x 8-10 (2)

Wednesday- Legs (2-3 second negatives recommended on all exercises)

Lying leg curls - 4x 6-8 (2)
RDL’s - 4x 8-10 (1)
Leg press - 4x8-10 (I like doing these before squats to help loosen up the hips) (2)
Squats or Front squats - 3x 8-10 (1)
Hack Squats (close stance) - 3x 8-10 (2)

Thursday- Arms/Abs Supersets for arms

Pinwheel Curls - 4x 6-10 (1)
Decline Elbows flared CGBP - 4x 6-10 (1)

Preacher curls on vertical side (spider curls) - 3x 8-10 (2)
Lying Behind the head extensions - 3x 8-10 (2)

Alternating Dumbbell curls - 3x 8-10 (2)
French Presses - 3x 8-10 (2)

Cable rope crunches - 3x 12-15 (2) (1-2 mins rest for abs)
Weighted Leg Raises - 3x 12-15 (2)

Friday - Shoulders/Traps

Seated Overhead Dumbbell Press - 4x 6-10 (2)
Cable lateral raises - 3x 8-12 (2)
Seated Dumbbell lateral raises - 3x 8-12 (2)
Incline Bench Rear delt raises - 3x 12-15 (2)
Standing cable X’s - 3x 20-30 (3)
Shrugs - 4x 8-10 (2)

Sample workout for those not familiar with how ramping works. I’ll use chest/calves:

  • (f) indicates failure

Inc Dumb - Warmup (20x25’s x2, 10x40’s, 8x55’s) 10x70’s, 10x80’s, 9x90’s(f), 6x100’s(f)
Flat Bar - 10x185, 10x205, 8x225(f)
Dec Dumb - 10x85’s, 8x90’s(f), 6x95’s(f)
Standing - warmup (20x50 x2, 15x100) 10x150, 10x180, 10x210(f), 9x220(f)
Seated - 10x90, 10x135(f), 8x145(f)
LP calf - 15x270, 13x360(f), 12x400(f)

Edit: Eat a lot of freaking protein.[/quote]

Wait so ure basicly doing 2-1 sets to failiure on every exercise every week? isnt that really bad for your CNS

66

[quote]toughlove wrote:
Wait so ure basicly doing 2-1 sets to failiure on every exercise every week? isnt that really bad for your CNS[/quote]

Only if you don’t get down with your CNS and have a good pep talk, you know, to prepare it (it can be negative sometimes, so if it is, give it a few slaps)

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KB - Here’s a question I’ve been dying to ask for a long time now (since I often notice it):

Why is it that when training a bodypart twice a week, trainers never seem to give the same exercise for each time they repeat the bodypart in the week? Or at least, they greatly change the angle? E.g. chest day 1 = incline and decline pressing, chest day 2 = incline and flat pressing.

Conventional wisdom says that you need to do an exercise often enough to get “good” at it (to reach potential).

Then again, I’ve heard it said before that repeating the same exercise frequently for the same bodypart is one way of overtraining (something along the lines of repeating the same muscle nural pathways or whatever). Is this the reason?

Have you done tests side by side to compare the difference between same exercises vs different ones? If so, was there a major difference?

Would really appreciate your feedback, thanks

68

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
KB - Here’s a question I’ve been dying to ask for a long time now (since I often notice it):

Why is it that when training a bodypart twice a week, trainers never seem to give the same exercise for each time they repeat the bodypart in the week? Or at least, they greatly change the angle? E.g. chest day 1 = incline and decline pressing, chest day 2 = incline and flat pressing.

Conventional wisdom says that you need to do an exercise often enough to get “good” at it (to reach potential).

Then again, I’ve heard it said before that repeating the same exercise frequently for the same bodypart is one way of overtraining (something along the lines of repeating the same muscle nural pathways or whatever). Is this the reason?

Have you done tests side by side to compare the difference between same exercises vs different ones? If so, was there a major difference?

Would really appreciate your feedback, thanks[/quote]

I’ve experimented with both ways. Having alternate workouts for the same bodyparts within the same week as opposed to just repeating the same workout, seems to in general result in better gains as far as less stagnation of lifts, less nagging little pains and better growth… At least for me, personally. Another reason for doing it that way is to be able to hit more “angles” since the number of exercises and volume of each workout is lower because of the higher frequency. I suppose you could lump that into a category of things I can’t prove but believe.

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[quote]toughlove wrote:

Wait so ure basicly doing 2-1 sets to failiure on every exercise every week? isnt that really bad for your CNS[/quote]

70

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
KB - Here’s a question I’ve been dying to ask for a long time now (since I often notice it):

Why is it that when training a bodypart twice a week, trainers never seem to give the same exercise for each time they repeat the bodypart in the week? Or at least, they greatly change the angle? E.g. chest day 1 = incline and decline pressing, chest day 2 = incline and flat pressing.

Conventional wisdom says that you need to do an exercise often enough to get “good” at it (to reach potential).

Then again, I’ve heard it said before that repeating the same exercise frequently for the same bodypart is one way of overtraining (something along the lines of repeating the same muscle nural pathways or whatever). Is this the reason?

Have you done tests side by side to compare the difference between same exercises vs different ones? If so, was there a major difference?

Would really appreciate your feedback, thanks[/quote]

I’ve experimented with both ways. Having alternate workouts for the same bodyparts within the same week as opposed to just repeating the same workout, seems to in general result in better gains as far as less stagnation of lifts, less nagging little pains and better growth… At least for me, personally. Another reason for doing it that way is to be able to hit more “angles” since the number of exercises and volume of each workout is lower because of the higher frequency. I suppose you could lump that into a category of things I can’t prove but believe.[/quote]

Interesting.

What always gets me confused is knowing whether lack of muscle gains is due to things like that (reducing stagnation in lifts via variety) or just food intake? For example, most people say that when lifts stagnate, that’s a sign you need to increase calories…

Kind of a follow on; what do you think of periodization methods (since these would also help to prevent stagnation)? Do you think bodybuilders can benefit from them too?

71

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:

[quote]toughlove wrote:

Wait so ure basicly doing 2-1 sets to failiure on every exercise every week? isnt that really bad for your CNS[/quote]

[/quote]

lol

72

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:

[quote]toughlove wrote:

Wait so ure basicly doing 2-1 sets to failiure on every exercise every week? isnt that really bad for your CNS[/quote]

[/quote]

Pulcinella! And thanks for this thread KB, I just noticed it when I started searching for a 4 week bodybuilding split to change things up before I start my next 10’s wave. This high frequency thing will do nicely. Well done, sir.

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kingbeef for ‘Decline Elbows flared CGBP’ can you do these on a smith machine?..just going back to the gym after 9 months off :frowning: and wont have a spotter (older bro) on arms day…+do you do these on a slight decline or steep

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[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:

I’ve experimented with both ways. Having alternate workouts for the same bodyparts within the same week as opposed to just repeating the same workout, seems to in general result in better gains as far as less stagnation of lifts, less nagging little pains and better growth… At least for me, personally. Another reason for doing it that way is to be able to hit more “angles” since the number of exercises and volume of each workout is lower because of the higher frequency. I suppose you could lump that into a category of things I can’t prove but believe.[/quote]
Interesting, I have been curious about this as well. Thanks for the answer KB.

75

Kingbeef- Great stuff, but why do you recommend (for the first split) arms on thursday, then shoulders the next day? You still use triceps on shoulder press movements, so why would you hit tris two days in a row?

76

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
These are deadstop behind the head extensions. With the lying extensions I described, I do them on a bench so I can lower the bar past my head and then explode back up.

These are french presses, except I’d do them seated and with a pause in the stretched position before exploding back up.

That said. You don’t HAVE to do those exercises. They are just a combination my favorite exercises that I’ve found to work extremely well for making tri’s a standout bodypart. Pushdowns just aren’t the same, IMO.[/quote]

I dont want to ask about minutia but the french press are close grip, while the lying behind the neck extensions are the wider grips on the ez curl bar, right?

77

[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:
Kingbeef- Great stuff, but why do you recommend (for the first split) arms on thursday, then shoulders the next day? You still use triceps on shoulder press movements, so why would you hit tris two days in a row?[/quote]

It’s fine to do. Especially since the only press for shoulders on that day is dumbbell presses, which really don’t use much tricep.

[quote]CraigGold55 wrote:

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
These are deadstop behind the head extensions. With the lying extensions I described, I do them on a bench so I can lower the bar past my head and then explode back up.

These are french presses, except I’d do them seated and with a pause in the stretched position before exploding back up.

That said. You don’t HAVE to do those exercises. They are just a combination my favorite exercises that I’ve found to work extremely well for making tri’s a standout bodypart. Pushdowns just aren’t the same, IMO.[/quote]

I dont want to ask about minutia but the french press are close grip, while the lying behind the neck extensions are the wider grips on the ez curl bar, right?[/quote]

I do the close grip on the larger 31 lb ez bar.

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Good stuff man my split is officially changed to the first one thanks dude

EDIT: I notice that when you ramp, all your sets have fairly high reps like 10 the first, 10 the second, and 8 to failure the third.
When I ramp, for example, I do 5 reps first set, 3 reps second set, and the third set however many to failure. Weight increases each set. Is this ok? I feel like I can get more weight with less reps on the previous sets.

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about the max-ot routine, can i add 1-2 sets for benchpress since i workout alone and wont be able to go to faliure?

and for the leg day i cant do hack squat or 90 degree legpresses, so il add normal squats instead, and also there i am not able to go to faliure so would it be adviced to add a set or 2

and why is the tricep pushdown befor the Frenchperss? isnt it easier to go heavy on the Frenchpress and use the pushdown as a finishing exercise

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[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:
EDIT: I notice that when you ramp, all your sets have fairly high reps like 10 the first, 10 the second, and 8 to failure the third.
When I ramp, for example, I do 5 reps first set, 3 reps second set, and the third set however many to failure. Weight increases each set. Is this ok? I feel like I can get more weight with less reps on the previous sets.[/quote]

Strictly speaking that is not ramping, that is simply doing two warmup sets and then 1 work set (which in my opinion isn’t all that great for hypertrophy). Ramping is all about priming the muscle for heavier loads than would normally be handled when lifting the usual way. So instead of just 2 warmup sets, you’d ramp (the muscle) by making smaller increments per set and more lower rep sets (typically at least 4-6 sets and going as high as 10).

For a decent growth stimulus you need a fair amount of volume in the 70-90% 1RM range. Or even as low as ~50% of 1RM if speed is utilised (increasing force and therefore fatigue).

Doing 2 warmup sets and 1 work set is not enough volume with a decent load (unless you’re genetically respondent to this). At least with proper ramping, many of the sets prior to the last one counts towards growth. Same principle applies to wave loading (you get enough volume done before failure/performance drops off dramatically).

As a general rule of thumb, I’d say you need at the VERY LEAST 12-15 total reps at a decent intensity/amount of fatigue per exercise for growth (which usually translates to at least 2 “working” sets - 1st set close to failure, 2nd set at or very near failure).

Much of all this confusion often lies in the definition of “working set”. Some would only class the last set as the working set, whereas the sets leading up to that one may have been growth inducing.