CC said exactly what I really wanted to say but didn’t feel like typing out, lol.
Greg, you seem to be coming along really well yourself, man, thanks for the compliments.
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]Sterneneisen wrote:
While I know I might get flamed… but how is this routine different from any routine in Muscle & Fantasy etc. ?[/quote]
Muscle and fantasy? Lolol
Aren’t you the guy who weighed 145lbs and only wanted to train deadlift but had a shit load of medical problems or something?
I don’t think you should be questioning the routines/advice that KB is putting in here. He has one of the best physiques on this site and has always been extremely helpful. He’s trying to help people out and he has some of, if not the most, impressive progress on the boards. You’re questioning the validity of his routines when you have zero results to back your claims?
Come on son. Lift more, post less.
/rant [/quote]
You mean the guy that started the thread about being anorexic but his 300 max DL good for his weight? Who said to help bulk up he would add lettuce to his diet? Ya I think that’s him.
Ofcourse KB’s routines are similar to M&F, which has routines similar to different mags, which have similarities to Arnold’s Encyclopedia, which has similarities to other books and bodybuilders. I don’t think KB was trying to break any new ground here.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
As you can guess, most people reading that stuff in M&F think it’s all same weight sets. Yet you watch a vid of many of the pros featured, that’s not what they do. It’s not what Arnold did back in the day either.
Sure you have exceptions, and depending on the drug philosophy of the guy in question and how long he’s been in the game and so on you will get people who actually train that way, but for most people here on T-Nation it would be utter nonsense.
[/quote]
It seems M&F kinda forgets to post that little detail.
[quote]Sterneneisen wrote:
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
As you can guess, most people reading that stuff in M&F think it’s all same weight sets. Yet you watch a vid of many of the pros featured, that’s not what they do. It’s not what Arnold did back in the day either.
Sure you have exceptions, and depending on the drug philosophy of the guy in question and how long he’s been in the game and so on you will get people who actually train that way, but for most people here on T-Nation it would be utter nonsense.
[/quote]
It seems M&F kinda forgets to post that little detail.
[/quote]
No, they assumed like most of us that this was common knowledge.
I just told you they spent 20 fucking years posting it in mags blatantly.
It really isn’t their fault if all of you ignored asking the big guys in the gym for direction.
[quote]Sterneneisen wrote:
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
As you can guess, most people reading that stuff in M&F think it’s all same weight sets. Yet you watch a vid of many of the pros featured, that’s not what they do. It’s not what Arnold did back in the day either.
Sure you have exceptions, and depending on the drug philosophy of the guy in question and how long he’s been in the game and so on you will get people who actually train that way, but for most people here on T-Nation it would be utter nonsense.
[/quote]
It seems M&F kinda forgets to post that little detail.
[/quote]
Yep… And that little thing… Caused a huge amount of misunderstanding (in this forum as well… We had a billion threads about that stuff 3 years back).
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
…
[/quote]
Good post. Pyramiding up in weight, however, was a common concept in just about every muscle magazine, especially through the 90’s. It is only recently that we had to stop and explain what that even meant because people don’t go to the gym anymore to learn how to lift…they sit at home and think they can get it all by reading about it.
In other words, I never saw a routine in a Muscle mag that was so off the wall that I thought it wouldn’t work. Most pro’s are not recommending you do some extreme amount of sets and reps. Most of the advice even written by their “ghost writers” is directed at people not at their level yet.[/quote]
True, it wasn’t until the internet forums became so extremely popular and many hardcore gyms disappeared that this sort of thing became so confusing.
Still, would it be that much trouble for the M&F guys to write out one more sentence “all sets ramped/pyramided” or “all sets same weight” ?
After all it does make the difference between an ok routine and a useless one (for most) at least in this case.
Hey KB im currently fallowing the max-ot u posted on the first page, and i must say i love that typ of training, it rly allows me to focus 100%. But sometimes i feel like i have so much more to give, so i was wondering if it would be alright to add 1 more set on each exercise and doing that set not to failiure ?
[quote]toughlove wrote:
Hey KB im currently fallowing the max-ot u posted on the first page, and i must say i love that typ of training, it rly allows me to focus 100%. But sometimes i feel like i have so much more to give, so i was wondering if it would be alright to add 1 more set on each exercise and doing that set not to failiure ?[/quote]
What would be the point of doing that?
Are you lifting numbers going up weekly? Is your quality, muscular weight increasing? If the answer to these is both YES, I would advise that you do NOT change the workouts, instead strive to get MORE out of the allotted sets.
This is not the program to add needless volume on, this program is based around brutally OVERLOADING the muscles and then letting them recover. Where does an extra set done at sub-overload levels fit into that?
Of course adding a single, non-failure set is not going to ruin the workout, but I would focus on getting the most out of the sets that you are allotted.
Just a thought, and obviously you can and should do whatever you want in the gym, but that’s my experience on the program and the advise I have gotten from guys like Skip LaCour on the subject.
Tried doing 4-8 with Max OT and it really stalled progress.
Going back down to 4-6 reps, and doing the three day posted earlier in this thread. Hope I still make great gains with only 3 days as opposed to 5…
[quote]CraigGold55 wrote:
Tried doing 4-8 with Max OT and it really stalled progress.
Going back down to 4-6 reps, and doing the three day posted earlier in this thread. Hope I still make great gains with only 3 days as opposed to 5…[/quote]
How long did you try it for? And why would you want to train only 3 days a week instead of 5?
Shit, I’d train 7 days a week all the time if I could…
Hey King, what would you recommend someone who doesn’t want to compete as a bodybuilder but just wants to be aesthetic and strong?
[quote]solidkhalid wrote:
Shit, I’d train 7 days a week all the time if I could…[/quote]
Idk man, I like my off days, lol.
[quote]SteveLopez wrote:
Hey King, what would you recommend someone who doesn’t want to compete as a bodybuilder but just wants to be aesthetic and strong?[/quote]
Train and eat like a bodybuilder 
(srs)
what are your best lifts?
[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
[quote]CraigGold55 wrote:
Tried doing 4-8 with Max OT and it really stalled progress.
Going back down to 4-6 reps, and doing the three day posted earlier in this thread. Hope I still make great gains with only 3 days as opposed to 5…[/quote]
How long did you try it for? And why would you want to train only 3 days a week instead of 5?[/quote]
Tried it for about 4 weeks.
I don’t want to train 3 days, have to because of classes. I make the gym my priority too often and it tends to make me slack with school work…but I need to graduate this year so…
Maybe I’ll add in a 4th day for shoulder work though.
[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
zomg a new routine… Kinda… This is actually just what I’m doing now, but I figured I’d post it here because I really like it.
The supersets on Monday and Friday absolutely suck, lol.
I do 1 set to failure for each exercise except where otherwise noted.
Monday - Chest/Upper Back/Rear delts
Flat dumbbell press - 4 x 4-8
T Bar Rows - 4 x 8-10
Incline dumbbell press - 3 x 4-8
Seated wide neutral grip rows - 4 x 8-10
Decline dumbbell press - 3 x 4-8
“Wolfe” Face Pulls - 3 x 8-10
Incline bench rear delt raises - 4 x 10-15 (2)
Standing cable x’s - 3 x 15-30 (2)
Tuesday - Hams/Traps/Calves
Lying Leg curls - 4 x 6-10 (2)
RDL’s - 4 x 6-10
Seated Leg curls - 3 x 8-12 (2)
Shrugs - 4 x 6-10 (2)
Seated Calf Raises - 4 x 8-12 (2)
Slant calf raises - 4 x 8-12 (2)
Leg press calf raises - 4 x 15-20 (3)
Wednesday - Arms
Seated hammer curls - 4 x 8-10
Decline CGBP - 4 x 4-8 (2)
Machine preacher curls - 4 x 10-15
Lying behind head extensions - 4 x 8-12
Incline curls - 3 x 6-10
French Press - 3 x 8-12
Thursday - Quads/Abs
Squats - 8 x 3 ← C.T. style force spectrum ramp here.
Hack Squats - 5 x 5 ← Ditto
Leg Press - 4 x 10 (2)
Rope Crunches - 4 x 15-20
Weighted leg raises - 4 x 12-15
Decline sit ups - 4 sets to failure
Friday - Delts/Lats/Calves
Seated Dumbbell Press - 4 x 4-8
Pull Ups - 50
Ships - 4 x 10-15 (2)
Wide grip pulldowns - 3 x 8-10
Seated Dumbbell side laterals - 4 x 8-12 (2)
Seated close neutral grip rows (elbows down at sides at finish) - 3 x 8-10
Lean away cable laterals - 3 x 12-15 (2)
Donkey calf raises - 5 x 8-12 (3)
Standing calf raises - 5 x 8-12 (3)
Sat/Sun - off
If you try this, please make sure you’re consuming copius amounts of protein/calories and make sure your periworkout nutrition is on point! Could also just do 1 set to failure on everything except calves. This routine is basically designed based on everything I’ve found that works best for me.[/quote]
So u want to say, that u build pecs like that by only doing 3 sets of inline DB press and 4 sets of flat? haha and u go to failure only on last set? is this a Joke?
[quote]bambarumi wrote:
[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
zomg a new routine… Kinda… This is actually just what I’m doing now, but I figured I’d post it here because I really like it.
The supersets on Monday and Friday absolutely suck, lol.
I do 1 set to failure for each exercise except where otherwise noted.
Monday - Chest/Upper Back/Rear delts
Flat dumbbell press - 4 x 4-8
T Bar Rows - 4 x 8-10
Incline dumbbell press - 3 x 4-8
Seated wide neutral grip rows - 4 x 8-10
Decline dumbbell press - 3 x 4-8
“Wolfe” Face Pulls - 3 x 8-10
Incline bench rear delt raises - 4 x 10-15 (2)
Standing cable x’s - 3 x 15-30 (2)
Tuesday - Hams/Traps/Calves
Lying Leg curls - 4 x 6-10 (2)
RDL’s - 4 x 6-10
Seated Leg curls - 3 x 8-12 (2)
Shrugs - 4 x 6-10 (2)
Seated Calf Raises - 4 x 8-12 (2)
Slant calf raises - 4 x 8-12 (2)
Leg press calf raises - 4 x 15-20 (3)
Wednesday - Arms
Seated hammer curls - 4 x 8-10
Decline CGBP - 4 x 4-8 (2)
Machine preacher curls - 4 x 10-15
Lying behind head extensions - 4 x 8-12
Incline curls - 3 x 6-10
French Press - 3 x 8-12
Thursday - Quads/Abs
Squats - 8 x 3 ← C.T. style force spectrum ramp here.
Hack Squats - 5 x 5 ← Ditto
Leg Press - 4 x 10 (2)
Rope Crunches - 4 x 15-20
Weighted leg raises - 4 x 12-15
Decline sit ups - 4 sets to failure
Friday - Delts/Lats/Calves
Seated Dumbbell Press - 4 x 4-8
Pull Ups - 50
Ships - 4 x 10-15 (2)
Wide grip pulldowns - 3 x 8-10
Seated Dumbbell side laterals - 4 x 8-12 (2)
Seated close neutral grip rows (elbows down at sides at finish) - 3 x 8-10
Lean away cable laterals - 3 x 12-15 (2)
Donkey calf raises - 5 x 8-12 (3)
Standing calf raises - 5 x 8-12 (3)
Sat/Sun - off
If you try this, please make sure you’re consuming copius amounts of protein/calories and make sure your periworkout nutrition is on point! Could also just do 1 set to failure on everything except calves. This routine is basically designed based on everything I’ve found that works best for me.[/quote]
So u want to say, that u build pecs like that by only doing 3 sets of inline DB press and 4 sets of flat? haha and u go to failure only on last set? is this a Joke?[/quote]
No, it’s not a joke, lol. Plus it’s 3 exercises, incline, flat, and decline dumbbell presses.
kingbeef323,
What do you think about Time under tension training
what is your rep speed/tempo? how do you train? u look good bro.
I have read some articles that says, that you need to keep your sets between 40-70 seconds for hypertrophy. some says 30-60 sec. do u incorporate this into your workouts?
Why you don’t use any Isolation exercises for chest E.g: Cable crossovers or DB flies?
kingbeef323, Reply please. 
Bambi - download and read the max-ot book please.