Do This Routine Instead of That Dumb One

Training
201

[quote]Springbok1 wrote:
Fair enough - here’s some information on warming/cooling down…

Hope you find it useful :slight_smile:

''During every single workout session the body gets damaged by various elements including damage of muscle fibers, ligaments and tendons together with various waste products that get build up in our body. If you perform a good cool down routine you will notice that our bodies can repair themselves faster.

Few people understand the importance of cooling down after exercise, especially when talking about post exercise muscle soreness. Most people will feel this the next day after a good workout and it can be experienced after a lay-off from exercises or even at the start of a sports season. There are various reasons that cause this post exercise muscle soreness. For starters, we have micro tears. These happen during the workout and they are actually small tears in the muscle fibers. They will cause swelling of the muscle tissue and there is pressure on our nerve endings, thus causing pain. Then we also have blood pooling to talk about.

When we workout our heart will pump a large quantity of blood on the working muscles. This is needed in order to carry nutrients and oxygen to the muscles that are working out. The blood reaches the muscle and the nutrients and oxygen are used up then the force of the muscular contraction will push the blood back to the heart in order to get re-oxygenated. When our workout is complete, or better said, when the exercise stops the force that pushes the blood towards the heart will disappear. The end result stays in waste products that remain in the muscles, some causing pain and swelling. This is “blood pooling” and it does have an impact on our overall performance.

The warm down process helps a lot because it keeps the blood circulating, thus helping to prevent blood pooling and even removing part of the waste products we find in our muscles after a workout. To make it even more important, cooling down will also bring in blood with oxygen and nutrients, which are needed by the muscles, ligaments and tendons to properly recover after a good bodybuilding or fitness routine’'[/quote]

Those are interesting thoughts, and I can definitely see some merit in there. I actually did go look this up after you brought it up and found this:

Law RYW and Herbert RD(2007) Warm-up reduces delayed-onset muscle soreness but cool-down does not: a randomised controlled trial. The Australian Journal of Physiotherapy 53: 91â??95.

Here is the full paper if you are interested in looking at methodology and the full results.
http://ajp.physiotherapy.asn.au/AJP/vol_53/2/AustJPhysiotherv53i2Law.pdf

The big question I had was how different is walking for 10 minutes versus simply remaining active after the workout? I personally don’t go home and veg out on the couch. I have to walk to my car, walk to my house, fix some food, eat that food, etc…

I have found basically nothing reduces DOMS to any noticeable degree in my own body. This includes Peri-Workout nutrition, post work out caffeine, stretches, warm ups, etc… I think if you train with intensity, expecially accentuated negatives, you are just going to have to live with it.

I certainly think post resistance training cardio has a place in certain plans (I utilized it when I needed to add more cardio in my diet this year) - I don’t know that I would ascribe any magical properties to it though.

202

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:

[quote]Springbok1 wrote:
Fair enough - here’s some information on warming/cooling down…

Hope you find it useful :slight_smile:

''During every single workout session the body gets damaged by various elements including damage of muscle fibers, ligaments and tendons together with various waste products that get build up in our body. If you perform a good cool down routine you will notice that our bodies can repair themselves faster.

Few people understand the importance of cooling down after exercise, especially when talking about post exercise muscle soreness. Most people will feel this the next day after a good workout and it can be experienced after a lay-off from exercises or even at the start of a sports season. There are various reasons that cause this post exercise muscle soreness. For starters, we have micro tears. These happen during the workout and they are actually small tears in the muscle fibers. They will cause swelling of the muscle tissue and there is pressure on our nerve endings, thus causing pain. Then we also have blood pooling to talk about.

When we workout our heart will pump a large quantity of blood on the working muscles. This is needed in order to carry nutrients and oxygen to the muscles that are working out. The blood reaches the muscle and the nutrients and oxygen are used up then the force of the muscular contraction will push the blood back to the heart in order to get re-oxygenated. When our workout is complete, or better said, when the exercise stops the force that pushes the blood towards the heart will disappear. The end result stays in waste products that remain in the muscles, some causing pain and swelling. This is “blood pooling” and it does have an impact on our overall performance.

The warm down process helps a lot because it keeps the blood circulating, thus helping to prevent blood pooling and even removing part of the waste products we find in our muscles after a workout. To make it even more important, cooling down will also bring in blood with oxygen and nutrients, which are needed by the muscles, ligaments and tendons to properly recover after a good bodybuilding or fitness routine’'[/quote]

Those are interesting thoughts, and I can definitely see some merit in there. I actually did go look this up after you brought it up and found this:

Law RYW and Herbert RD(2007) Warm-up reduces delayed-onset muscle soreness but cool-down does not: a randomised controlled trial. The Australian Journal of Physiotherapy 53: 91â??95.

Here is the full paper if you are interested in looking at methodology and the full results.
http://ajp.physiotherapy.asn.au/AJP/vol_53/2/AustJPhysiotherv53i2Law.pdf

The big question I had was how different is walking for 10 minutes versus simply remaining active after the workout? I personally don’t go home and veg out on the couch. I have to walk to my car, walk to my house, fix some food, eat that food, etc…

I have found basically nothing reduces DOMS to any noticeable degree in my own body. This includes Peri-Workout nutrition, post work out caffeine, stretches, warm ups, etc… I think if you train with intensity, expecially accentuated negatives, you are just going to have to live with it.

I certainly think post resistance training cardio has a place in certain plans (I utilized it when I needed to add more cardio in my diet this year) - I don’t know that I would ascribe any magical properties to it though.[/quote]

Thanks for posting that link - I will give it a read shortly.

For me, personally, warming down has had a very noticable positive impact on my training. Reduced DOMS and increased recovery time. But, I guess that this will depend on the person - some people may find it beneficial and others not. But I really think it is worth trying out.

I also think that it is more beneficial than simply being active after gym. You will be getting your heart rate up immediately post lifting - so no delay and blood pooling; and 10 minute on the treadmill should be enough to bring about the positives of a warm down. But once again, this may vary from person to person.

I just finished a heavy week of training and looking forward to a relaxing weekend. But I will take a hike up the mountain on Sunday!

203

[quote]Springbok1 wrote:
Thanks for posting that link - I will give it a read shortly.

For me, personally, warming down has had a very noticable positive impact on my training. Reduced DOMS and increased recovery time. But, I guess that this will depend on the person - some people may find it beneficial and others not. But I really think it is worth trying out.

I also think that it is more beneficial than simply being active after gym. You will be getting your heart rate up immediately post lifting - so no delay and blood pooling; and 10 minute on the treadmill should be enough to bring about the positives of a warm down. But once again, this may vary from person to person.

I just finished a heavy week of training and looking forward to a relaxing weekend. But I will take a hike up the mountain on Sunday!
[/quote]

Experimentation is what its all about man, finding winning strategies for yourself.

Enjoy your weekend man, those hikes can be fun with the right people ( or no people if you just need to get away :wink:

204

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:

Sample workout: Chest/tri’s

Inc Dumb- warmup(20x25’s x2, 10x40’s, 8x55’s, 6x70’s), acclimation(2x90’s), 7x110’s, 5x115’s
Flat Bar- 2x225, 8x245, 5x265
Dips- 2x45, 1x90, 8x110, 4x125
Pushdowns- 8x120, 6x130
French- 10x80, 8x100, 5x110[/quote]

You prefer to do the work sets like that, KB? If it were me, I would do the 115’s first, then the 110’s for the higher rep set. If I got the 115’s for 6-7 reps, I’d hit that weight for another set. If 4-5 reps, then do the 110’s for the second set. Make sense?

205

[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
Inc Dumb- warmup(20x25’s x2, 10x40’s, 8x55’s, 6x70’s), acclimation(2x90’s), 7x110’s, 5x115’s
Flat Bar- 2x225, 8x245, 5x265
Dips- 2x45, 1x90, 8x110, 4x125
Pushdowns- 8x120, 6x130
French- 10x80, 8x100, 5x110

You prefer to do the work sets like that, KB? If it were me, I would do the 115’s first, then the 110’s for the higher rep set. If I got the 115’s for 6-7 reps, I’d hit that weight for another set. If 4-5 reps, then do the 110’s for the second set. Make sense?
[/quote]

Sometimes on Max-OT you underestimate yourself, and sometimes you overestimate. The previous week he might have gotten 110x4, so he might have stuck there to try and get 6… And when he got 7 he knew he could move up in weight on the next set and still maintain the 4-6 reps the program uses.

You are generally right, you want to attempt to lift the heaviest weight possible on EVERY set in the 4-6 rep range, and you are generally strongest on the first set.

This is one of the reasons its vitally important to PLAN ahead, and write everything down. That way you go into the gym knowing “Okay, I did 110x4 last week, so this week I should be able to get 110x6… OR maybe I’ll try for 115x4”

Again, you can’t always control exactly what you will get, but it helps to go in with a game plan.

206

On the 5 day split, why no lower back work like rack pulls or deadlifts?

on the 5 day split leg workout, why RDL and ham curls before the leg press movements?

207

[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:
On the 5 day split, why no lower back work like rack pulls or deadlifts?

on the 5 day split leg workout, why RDL and ham curls before the leg press movements?[/quote]

Why anything? It’s just another routine out of a billion. You can follow it exercise by exercise or mix it up or change it w/e nothing is set in stone. You can also try getting out of your comfort zone and just doing it as written, leg curling before leg press and all.

208

[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:
On the 5 day split, why no lower back work like rack pulls or deadlifts?

on the 5 day split leg workout, why RDL and ham curls before the leg press movements?[/quote]

If you want to do rack pulls or deadlifts because they work for you then go right ahead. These are just example routines.

As far as the ham movements first, I got the idea from John Meadows leg training article, tried it and liked it. You don’t have to do it that way if you don’t want to. Once again these are just examples of routines that are effective.

209

King,

Been doing your routine that you posted recenly and I really like the ideas being used. Today was chest/upper back/rear delts and had a GREAT workout.

Thanks,
Fuzzy

210

[quote]Fuzzyapple.Train wrote:
King,

Been doing your routine that you posted recenly and I really like the ideas being used. Today was chest/upper back/rear delts and had a GREAT workout.

Thanks,
Fuzzy[/quote]

Cool man. That’s def one of my favorite splits ever.

211

Ok good stuff. I am just wondering how would I work my lower back then? If I were to do the five day split.

And I asked about the ham movements first because I have read in the past that training hams first and more can lead to imbalances and injury.

212

[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:
Ok good stuff. I am just wondering how would I work my lower back then? If I were to do the five day split.

And I asked about the ham movements first because I have read in the past that training hams first and more can lead to imbalances and injury.

[/quote]

RDL’s will work your lower back just fine. You realize the “DL” in “RDL” stands for deadlift, right? As far as what you said about training hams first, I have no idea what you’re talking about. If you believe that, then don’t train hams first. I and others do and we have no problems with balance or injury. If anything it seems to lead to better balance and lesser chance of injury and I say that from EXPERIENCE, not something I read somewhere…

213

KingBeef’s thread is just gold. I hate that 99% of the people in this country refuses to read anything in English. It’d too nice to point newbies toward this thread. Would save a lot of facepalms.

I agree on hammie work before or between quads (eg. squat-curl-squat-curl). Helps with depth-stability. And feels great for knees too. Though whenever I use the “set of quad-set of hammie” approach, I pair a heavy quad exc. with some type of leg curl.

Fortunately I have access to seated, standing and lying leg curls :o)

214

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:

[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:
Ok good stuff. I am just wondering how would I work my lower back then? If I were to do the five day split.

And I asked about the ham movements first because I have read in the past that training hams first and more can lead to imbalances and injury.

[/quote]

RDL’s will work your lower back just fine. You realize the “DL” in “RDL” stands for deadlift, right? As far as what you said about training hams first, I have no idea what you’re talking about. If you believe that, then don’t train hams first. I and others do and we have no problems with balance or injury. If anything it seems to lead to better balance and lesser chance of injury and I say that from EXPERIENCE, not something I read somewhere…[/quote]
Ok good stuff, I feel RDLs in my lower back too. and ok thanks maynee

215

On the RDL’s just make sure you’re not going down past the point where you can maintain an arch in your lower back and you’re pushing your hips back. They do work your lower back but you should feel them MUCH more in your hams and glutes than your lower back.

216

I have a question KB. I really love the 2x a week, push/pull/legs routine, been using it since around February, it’s perfect for me. I was curious as too why, other then that split, why all your other splits are 1x a week frequency per bodypart. Do you overall prefer that type of split and find it optimal, or do you actually like hitting a bodypart more then once a week, thats just not how MAX-OT is laid out??

217

Its weird because DB RDLS I feel in my glutes and hams and its great, but bb RDLS kinda hurt my back after each set.
And are you saying push hips back or dont push hips back? and weight should remain over heels right

218

[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:
Its weird because DB RDLS I feel in my glutes and hams and its great, but bb RDLS kinda hurt my back after each set.
And are you saying push hips back or dont push hips back? and weight should remain over heels right[/quote]

Keep your back straight for safety, but other than that use WHATEVER form allows you to actively work your hamstrings the most. That usually means that at the bottom of the movement, you should FEEL your hamstrings (usually a “stretching” feeling that you get from touching your toes)

If this means pushing your ass back, do that. If it means keeping it forward, do that. If this means that you need to use DB’s instead of a BB, do that.

In general, you should be “pushing through the floor” with your heels, the weight should not remain over your heels because that is impossible, as the weight is in front of your knees… which are in front of your heels. The idea is to keep the PRESSURE of the weight on your heels, as opposed to your toes.

219

I like to wear pants when doing RDL’s because the bar should ideally slide up and down your legs to minimize the amount of stress on the lower back. Same goes for pushing your hips back. Pushing your hips back ensures that you’re bending at the hips thereby engaging more hamstring as opposed to not pushing your hips back where you’re definitely going to use more lower back in addition to not being able to slide the bar up and down your legs, further adding to the stress.

There’s a video of shelby starnes doing them in one of his livespill posts but I can’t find it. They way he does them is ideal IMO, and they way I do them.

220

Hey KB would you mind sharing what specifically you about your current new routine (the one on pg. 7) over your modified MAX-OT routine? I know both are good but you mentioned the current one is an all time favorite I believe.

By the way is this that density training by John R. you were talking about? http://www.T-Nation.com/testosterone-magazine-623#density-training seems to be mentioned for fat loss