[quote]kgildner wrote:
[quote]trivium wrote:
I know I am going to get flamed for this, but here it goes…
I don’t see the problem with the jerk.
That is such a small thing. Lets not pretend like it is going to keep him from deadlifting 500 lbs some day.
In all likelihood it will correct itself when he gets more weight on the bar.
Also, there is no way anyone is going to “pull the slack out of the bar” until they get at least 3 and a half plates on each side. Even then, with a regulation deadlift bar, you are only going to be able to get at the very very most an inch. Totally pointless for him at this stage.[/quote]
I understand what you’re getting at and agree with your form pointers for OP. However, I could really see him benefitting from keeping the pace of the lift a bit slower and indeed focussing more on “taking the slack out of the bar” as a cue (i.e., pulling himself down to the bar and loading his hamstrings before getting tight and initiating the pull). If you look at the first video, he indeed tries to jerk the last rep off of the floor and then misses it. I think missing reps like this has a lot to do with relying on momentum (for lack of a better term) and not focussing on getting really, really tight prior to the lift. Missed reps mean less development.[/quote]
Sorry for the long response. I hope we can be friends after this haha.
I don’t entirely disagree with you (that is a great cue), and I do not intend to come off as being a jerk, I just think that at this moment in time, it is not the most pressing issue for him.
There will get to be a point where he will realize that he cannot do that anymore, or that his body will literally not be able to generate enough force to get the bar moving off the floor like that anymore, he will have to sort it out. However, I believe for him it will naturally work itself out as he gets stronger because his form is pretty spot on for everything else a novice/intermediate needs. It is a very minor point at this time.
This is where I think training in the 6 to 8 rep range comes in for those who are just starting. There is no way that you will not work everything in that range because eventually all the stuff you’ve been cheating with will be tired by rep 3 to 5. Essentially his form problems will be remedied by the fatigue curve that will occur as his set goes on. (I know this is not sound PL advice, nor is it optimal for maximal weights, but he hasn’t even hit a 5 rep set with 315 yet.)
I spent the majority of my training career missing reps, but I go for rep PR’s every workout. (Again, I do 5/3/1, so as long as I meet/exceed my reps for the week, life goes on. I don’t think about it all that much.) I know some day I am going to have to stop missing lifts to make progress, but I don’t think the OP and I are far from different right now. I think he can make progress whilst missing lifts for a solid clip of time before he is just going to get too beat up to continue like that. (I do believe that missing lifts is so much harder on your body than making a set, and that if you do a hard set for your main movement of the day, the rest of your workout will suffer. That is ok though. It is a bench press competition, not a rope pushdown competition. You should feel spent after the main lift, and assistance PR’s are not worth bragging about, unless it is pullups or rows. Then feel free to mention it.)
I think the major problem with his lifting at the moment is that he doesn’t appear to have a solid program that he has been running. If I were him I would google 5/3/1, or go buy Juggernaut, or check out a basic Westside template (I think a more PL geared WS4SB would be great for him). There is a pretty awesome forum that Dan Green has been posting in (I don’t think t nation would let me post it, so you’ll have to search it if you’re interested). You could take the WS4SB format, and integrate some of his training ideas, and make solid progress.
Also OP, remember you need to be strong EVERYWHERE. That means using good form on your assistance work to work the right muscles. The more meat you have on your back, and the more you can grip, the higher your deadlift is going to be. Your scapula is not attached to your body via any other mechanism than muscle. The weight has to be transferred through your scapula to your back, so that your legs/ass/lower back can move it.
More grip = more weight.
More back strength/mass = better transfer of energy = more weight
I think this all makes your training more efficient too. When you are not struggling with grip, your DL muscles get hit better because they get a better stress/workout.
Your setup is also huge (foot position, grip, hand position, cues, etc) but I think you will learn this in time with your own experimentation. Keep asking good questions, and keep an open mind. I personally have been considering doing some sumo work (never done that before) to help my hip drive in a few lifts. Every lift has its purpose, and I think sumo might even be relevant for conventional guys to practice (I haven’t begun to tinker with it yet though so I cant really say just yet).
Also, getting some motivation helps. I do think that you had at least 2 more reps left in your second video. Maybe this will help…
Pull at 2:52, and you will PR. I guarantee it.