diet frustration...wtf?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
1

Alright guys, im pretty f?in pissed. Despite diligent effort I just cant seem to drop that bf. i truly believe that my training and diet is pretty well dialed in, based on what i have learned here on t-mag. I have reached a sticking point in my fat loss and I need some help breaking through. Here is a sample of what I eat on a typical day:

Meal 1- 3 whole eggs, 2oz lean ham

Meal 2- whey shake, handful mixed nuts.

Meal 3- 1.5 cans tuna, handful raw olives

Meal 4- same as 3

Meal 5- pw surge like drink

Meal 6- ? cup oats, 6oz turkey, 5 apricots,

Meal 7- 1/2lb cottage cheese, 2tbsp peanut butter w/ celery

Meal 8- whey shake with 1 tbsp flax oil and ? lb cottage cheese.

I train 4x per week with weights 5x5 style. Each workout is followed by 20 min of cardio at 60-70% hrm. I also do 2 - 20 min hiit sessions per week.

I have t2, md-6 and ala in the mail as we speak. I hope those compounds will help. I am also using a strong androgen and have seen great increases in strength and lbm during this 6 week diet.
I am about 9 percent right now and my goal is 6. if you were to see me with a tank top, you would think I was ripped, however all of my bf is in my midsection and my abs can only be seen in certain lighting from certain angles. I have dropped about 4-5% bf but ive been stuck for a few weeks and I am getting frustrated. I think I may be somewhat insulin resistant. My fasted blood glucose is in the 85-90 range, and diabetes runs in the family. Hence the ala. I think I covered everything. Any feedback is appreciated. Thank you.

2

Let’s see if we can look at it meal-by-meal:

Meal 1- Needs some healthy fats. Substitute some extra whites for the ham.

Meal 2- Looks decent, although you’d be better off with a whey/MPI/casein blend like Grow! Also, a “handful mixed nuts” seems pretty arbitrary; you could be taking in a lot more calories than you think.

Meal 3- Looks good, except for the “handful” issue again.

Meal 4- See above.

Meal 5- Good.

Meal 6- ? cup oats? Is it 10 cups or one? Also, skip the apricots; they won’t do much for you.

Meal 7- Be careful with the PB; it can add up very quickly, especially if you aren’t measuring it.

Meal 8- Excellent. I would use this for Meal #2, too.

All in all, without seeing an exact caloric and macro breakdown, it’s tough to make specific suggestions. Hope this helps anyway.

Good luck!

3

thanks eric, point well taken about the “handfull” issue. btw i meant to say 1/2 cup oats. the ham is 98% lean but i can see how i could improve on that as well.

4

bumping for more opinions.

5

Well, it’s important not to have unrealistic expectations. It’s almost impossible to lose BF without losing muscle along with it, unless you use andros, like 4ad-ec.

Don’t be afraid to do more cardio and lower your caloric intake (gradually of course), and you will see the numbers on the scale drop. About 0.5-1lb a week is ideal. More than that, and you’re undereating or overtraining.

6

i am actually using an androgen much stronger than either of those great legal choices. during this “dieting” phase i have actually gained weight, 5-6 lbs. i am leaner than i was when i started but im still no where near my goal of 6 and the fat loss has completley haulted.

7

So far loosing from 15% down to 10% was pretty fast. Below 10% has been kinda slow. I’ve since moved my focus to developing more power, strength, and lean mass while not worrying too much about the BF%. I am currently at about 8%. I’ve noticed that varying caloric has been more effective in this range and keeps me a bit more sane. I would not expect numbers under 10% to go very quickly at all so just be patient. It takes time down here! It also seems directly related to LBM development so you might want to switch up your focus like I did.

8

You are already pretty lean so losing more is going to be more difficult mostly likely.

Your fasted glucose measurement probably is in the morning? I can’t get my glucose mg/dl below 80 until I have completely eliminated carbs for about 2-3 days while working out. I have also noticed that too much protein and not enough fat will cause my body to convert more protein to glucose (or some metabolic thing happens) and my bloodsugar levels will not drop.

I don’t know how you feel about CKD’s like the Anabolic Diet or Bodyopus (or whatever you want to invent along the same lines) but these diets might help a little with the last bit of fat. Of course, there are the guys that feel like shit on these diets (probably most) who make really good progress just by dialing the correct carb grams for them; probably trial and error. I noticed that my best energy and progress was with about 100g a day of carbs. Please don’t flame me for this one, but I found my energy levels to be almost unstoppable when I spaced my carbs and fat over every meal with my protein. I definitely see the point of P+C and P+F and I follow that protocol right now, I guess you have to find what works best for you is my point here.

I have also read that saturated fat should be avoided wherever possible when wanting to get leaner. Along with this information were some interesting theories on your body’s “set point” and that you have to lose a little and maintain that for a while before you reprogram your body’s set point, perhaps making it easier to lose more and even more so, maintain. In other words, fat loss is a slow process (I’m sure you have already noticed :)).

You’ve already read the good responses on “a handful”, and I would never eat ham when dieting. I would probably substitute an equal portion of “cleaner” protein with an equal portion of good fats.

Some poeple react badly to dairy as well.

There have been some good articles on how to taper your diet; eat the bulk of your calories and carbs at the beginning of the day, tapering both as the day moves on.

What’s your water intake?

9

Here is my honest opinion: good but one or two things. Why have the oats in the afternoon? I’m assuming surge is your post work-out drink therefore there is not further need for carbs. In the afternoon insulin sensativity drops in metabolically active tissue so taking in carbs at this time could well be going right onto the love handles. I would suggest shifting the oats to pre-workout or early in the day when you’re more likely to use carbs for energy rather than just store them. The water intake is also hugely important. Carbs are water soluble so basically when you consume them and they enter a cell a difusion gradient is produced (or water potential, call it what you will). Water floods into the cell to dilute the carbs (hence you bulk up after a big carb intake). If not enough water is present the body has to convert the carbs to fat (which is water insoluble) to avoid osmosis out of the blood into the cells, i.e. to stop your blood drying and thickening. In short: more water = less fat storage.

10

The T2 will definitely help you keep losing the fat.

11

Another thing to consider: what are you using to measure your BF%? I have both a bioimpendence scale and a set of digital calipers.

There are huge problems with both devices. First, the bioimpendence doesn’t work well for people with a high Body-Mass Index, as it uses some constants that are meant for average-muscled people (ie. it would be more accurate for a 300lb fat guy than for a 300lb bodybuilder). The prolem with calipers, of course, is that it’s really hard to learn how to use them properly, even on yourself.

The point is: use the mirror to help you decide whether you’re losing fat. Take a snapshot of yourself in the same lighting every week or fortnight.

If you REALLY want to cut I’d still lower my intake/increase my cardio to the point where I’d be losing 1lb/week, and the juice will probably make all that be fat, although I admit to not being experienced in this area.

12

thanks a lot guys, those are some good responses. 1st thing im going to do is stop kidding myself with this “handfull” thing. from now on i measure my intake on a scale.

secondly i think it would probably be a good idea to shift the oats to breakfast rather than late in the day.

as far as keto goes, i dont know? i have considered it, but i am a firm believer in good post workout nutrition.

oh and by the way i drink a quite a bit of water at least 200oz per day.

hark, yeah im using the mirror. i really dont care what the caliper says too much. mainly i am shooting to have a nice set of abs while relaxed, and i figured i would need to get to 6% to see them that well.

thanks again

13

One last piece of advice: I would change your workout plan up as well. If you’ve plateaued, you need to shake everything up, not just the diet.

Why don’t you try Joel’s CD/EDT plan, posted over on the Lair? That works like gangbusters, and is great for getting someone who’s already fairly lean even more so (as my Hot-Rox pics will attest!).

Honestly, I can’t say enough good things about that program. Try it.

14

I couldn’t disagree more with JohnGullick. Insulin sensitivity is abosolutely at its peak after a bout of training. Yep, more so than first thing in the morning.

The cookie-cutter myth that carbs should only be consumed in the morning and not after a certain time of day is basically hogwash. Heck, if P-Dog was training at 9pm at night, I’d still have him have his post-training Surge and the P/C meal!

My sentiments are along the lines of E-C and Char-Diggity-Dawg. That is, I would recommend a protein blend in place of the whey. In addition, I would only recommend about one yolk for every four to six whites. I’m not too fond of ham, but if that’s a packaged ham, then dropping it from the plan should truly be considered.

I’d also suggest some more fish/flax oil in lieu of one of the servings of mixed nuts or peanut butter and the olives. Also, I’d substitute something like berries for the apricots.

I’ve never, ever heard of carbs being converted to fat because of not drinking adequate water. I wouldn’t think that water would be the problem at this point, though, P-Dog, as I’m sure you understand its importance.

Finally, P-Dog, take a 30-minute walk or something of lower intensity first thing in the morning (have some caffeine or the like beforehand) before your first meal.

15

Are you periodically overfeeding at all?

Joel

16

thanks for the response timbo. i agree with you that the post workout window is the ideal time to consume c. what i have thought about though is something i have read from jb. i believe he recommends having your post workout shake and then 2.5 to 3 hours later resuming your normal diet. so i am considering experimenting with 1 p+c in the morning and 1 p+c in the form of my pw shake, then 2.5 hours later returning to p+f.

the nuts are mainly out of convenience, but i will drop them from 1 meal and add some flax. also i will get my hands on some fish oil.

joel, i have experimented with different protocols and i have found that a once per week refeed of about 300-400 grams of c as well as a couple of all out cheat meals works well as far as glycogen and energy levels while not leading to fat gain. i have also noticed that if i go as high as 600 grams c it goes straight to the waist line. so i will continue with the 3-400 once or twice per week refeeds depending on how im feeling.

to be honest with you the only reason i havent tried your cheaters routine is i simply do not want to train with weights only once or twice per week. i love being in the gym, im addicted to training, and i hate when im not there. however as my deadline nears i am considering following your protocol. would it be possible to incorporate the cheaters diet into my current 4 day split? it might be a good way for both of us to experiment with something a little different. thanks a lot, p-dog.

17

With the rebound diet:

  1. Eat high calories for 10 days [Phase 1]
  2. Hard diet for 10 days. [Phase 2, the aim is to burn off any fat you put on during the first 10 days].
  3. Repeat the cycle

Just like coming off a contest diet your body is ready to grow and absorb everything you feed it for the next 10 days = increased lean muscle gains!

[Phase 1] 10days

Meal 1: 4-6 whole eggs,1 big bowel of oats,fruit,1 serve Creatine,2x tribex 500
Meal 2: Grow in skim milk,tub of yogurt
Meal 3: Steak or chicken,potatos,rice,veg,2x tribex 500

Meal 4: Grow in skim milk,cake or fruit
Meal 5: After workout,Surge with 200grams of carbs in water,serve creatine
Meal 6: Steak or chicken,potatos,rice,veg,2x tribex 500

Meal 7: Grow in skim milk,cottage cheese

[Phase 2] 10days

Meal 1: 6 egg whites,75grms oats,2x T2 pro ,2xGurana,2x tribex 500

Meal 2: serve Low carb grow in water
Meal 3: 200grm chicken breast or lean steak,1 potato,veg,2x T2 pro Gurana,2x tribex 500

Meal 4: Pre workout Low carb grow in water,2xgurana
Meal 5: 200grm chicken or lean steak,veg 2x tribex 500

Meal 6: 4-6 egg whites

Training

The training program is also set out over 10 days.

[Phase 1]

Train heavy with the reps down to 6-10 and have 1.5 to 2 mins rest between sets.

[Phase 2]

Decrease the weight a little and increase the reps to 10-15 and cut your rest between sets down to 30-45 seconds. Also add 5 x 40min cardio sessions first thing in the morning over the ten days.

Day 1: Chest,shoulders (40 min cardio)
Day 2: Legs
Day 3: Back,arms(40min cardio)
Day 4: rest
Day 5: rest (40 min cardio)
Day 6: Chest,shoulders
Day 7: Legs (40min cardio)
Day 8: Back,arms
Day 9: rest (40min cardio)
Day 10: rest
REPEAT

Note: Cardio is only done during [Phase 2] of diet.

18

I wanna apologise for any typos I make, I’m 50% watching formula 1 while I do this. Now I didn’t say oats shouldn’t be eaten after a workout, I dunno when the workout happens, if its in the morning then surely theres no need for carbs in the evening? And trust me on the water thing, ok it tends not to be too much of an issue in healthy people but really, nothing in the human body happens in isolation. Osmotic balance has such a profound impact on so many things, just look at creatine and how many of its benefits relate to intra-cellular water retention.

19

interesting stuff dwain. thanks for your time.

20

P-Dog, if you want to try JM’s CD/EDT protocol with four days in the gym, go for it. I did exactly that for part of a cycle (substituting a gym workout for HIIT on the second strict diet day) and it worked very well indeed. The only thing you have to be careful of is not to overdo things on that day. But if you just want to be in the gym (and I know the feeling!), then it should suit you fine. Just do some “peripheral” work or other exercises that won’t cut into your recovery too much. Then go kill yourself on EDT day.

Check out my Hot-rox contest thread for more details on what I did and the results.

Hope this helps.