Hello - Just wondering what people impressions are for deep squating. I try to do ass to the ground (or as close as possible for a tall guy). What do you think about deep squating. Some people say its bad for the knees but I remember reading from some places its fine. what are people takes on it.
I go as deep as I can. When I first started, a half squat was difficult. But since I have been using Coach Davies’ programs my hips have become way more flexible. I am below parallel now, but not quite ass to the ground (yet). Also, I can say for sure that my knees used to hurt after squatting, now they never do.
You should go as deep as you can without rounding your back. As long as you don’t try to bounce out of the hole, you’re not doing damage. The problem isn’t going deep, it’s what you do there (letting ligament tension stop the descent, bouncing to get the motion started, etc.).
Thanks for the input but what do you mean by "
The problem isn’t going deep, it’s what you do there (letting ligament tension stop the descent)" Im not sure how the ligament would stop the decent means. Sorry. I don’t bouce like you said, i like to take a second down below before I try to explode.
Nobody that knows what the hell they are talking about says squats are bad for knees. Go as low as you can, back off the weight a little, earn mastery at every weight increment, add a little every workout. Knees will not be a problem.
Well, knees could be a problem if you allow your knee to project further than your toes. That position puts a shearing effect on the knees and tears them apart.
Older Lifter’s Note: Dr. Fred Hatfield isn’t called “Dr. Squat” for nothing. In 1987, after 30 years of squatting, he performed a competitive squat of 1014 pounds. By his own estimate, over the previous ten years he had exceeded 800 pounds in the squat more than 1500 times. That’s roughly 500 squat workouts averaging three such monster squats per workout. When asked why he’d do such a thing to himself, he replied, “I KNEEded to!” To this day, his knees are fine.
Squats can be bad for your knees. Period. But they’re good for everything else.
So good, in fact, that you MUST do them. I don’t care if you’re a bodybuilder, a powerlifter or a ballerina. Ya gotta do them! Question is, how? The answer is, as safely as possible without losing any of the benefits! Sorta like drugs, no? The art and science of medicine dictates that while using drugs, you must minimize the risks while maximizing the benefits. If there’s one way to take your iron pill, then, it’s in large doses! That means SQUATTING!
In sports, knee problems are nigh unto a way of life, but squatting isn’t the primary culprit. Among bodybuilders who have knee problems, however, squatting is the only culprit. In both cases, squatting properly can reduce, prevent or ameliorate many, many of the common knee problems inherent in sports. That they will make you a better bodybuilder or athlete is an unquestioned fact.
Speaking of the world of medicine and the practitioners thereof, you’ll find precious few who have any real, first-hand knowledge of squatting technique or its effects (good and bad) on the knees. One who does is three-time California powerlifting champion Dr. Sal Arria, my fellow co-founder of the International Sports Sciences Association. He’s the guy right behind me in the photo of me squatting 1014 pounds. Dr. Arria, in the ISSA’s course text, Fitness: Complete Guide for personal fitness trainers, listed many common nee problems and ways to prevent them. I’ve drawn heavily from that text in writing this article. I also drew from several other sources (see references).
KNEE ANATOMY AND ACTION
Keeping your knees healthy and asymptomatic begins with developing a functional understanding of how this unique joint is constructed (anatomy) and how it does and doesn’t function (biomechanics).
The knee is a hinge-type joint, roughly equivalent to a door hinge, but with a little “twist” to lock it into full extension. Instead of a fixed axis (such as a door hinge has), however, it’s a complicated movement consisting of gliding and rotation in such a fashion that the articulating surfaces are always changing. Hence, the axis is always changing. That can lead to trouble, particularly during unweighted exercises such as leg extensions.
It’s almost a law that your quads and hammies should be of approximately equal strength in order to provide “balanced” development. Some experts claim that a ham-to-quad strength ratio of 1 to 1 reduces shear and hamstring pulls. At best, this is mere speculation. When I was a powerlifter, my hamstrings were close to twice or three times the strength of my quads. Most sprinters are much stronger in the mammie department too, because that’s what they all use! If you give attention to muscle balance, beware that speculation is rampant.
Seven different types of tissue comprise the knee – bones, ligaments, tendons, muscles, synovial fluid (bursa), adipose tissue and articular cartilage.
Bone: The bony structures forming the knee joint are the femur, tibia, and the patella.
Ligaments: Fibrous connective tissue which connects bone to bone, providing stability and integrity to the joint. The knee’s ligaments are divided into two groups, eight interior and six external ligaments.
Muscle: We all have a clear idea as to what muscles are. Clearly, there are no muscles in the knee joint itself. The ones which act upon the knee joint are all external to the knee. They are listed below:
The quadriceps, the muscles of the anterior (front) thigh:
Next are the hamstrings, or the leg biceps, located on the posterior thigh.
The other muscles of the knee all contribute to knee flexion and some to
inward rotation:
Tendons: Fibrous bands that that connect the muscles listed above to their bony attachments. The knee’s four extensors form a common tendon of insertion called the quadriceps tendon, which connects to the patella, and (below it) the patellar tendon to the tibial tuberosity.
Bursa: A bursa is a pad-like sac or cavity found near areas subject to friction, i.e. joints, particularly those located between bony prominences and muscle or tendon. It is lined with synovial membrane and contains synovia. There are twelve such sacs in the knee.
Adipose Tissue: For padding.
Articular Cartilage: Cartilage is the connective tissue which provides for a smooth articulation between the bones which form the joint. Cartilage also acts as a shock absorber. The two semi-lunar shaped menisci are the knee’s only two cartilages. Located on the tibIal plateau, they cradle the femoral condyles, or the rounded knobs of the lower femur. Since the tibeal plateau is flat, and the femoral condyle is rounded, these two menisci (along with the bursa sacs) provide a better “fit” between these two bony structures.
For more information, check out Dr. Squat’s Website and Best of Luck.
I suppose the squatting debate will go on forever (sad but true). Bottom line: If you’re going for optimal results and have healthy knees, you need to go LOW! So many times I’ve seen the “tough guy” load up the bar with 500 lbs. and then proceed to do a 1/4 squat. Why? Lack of education/knowledge and more often than not he’s trying to impress others in the gym. Do it right. Go deep, use proper form, and GROW!
Whether you do squats at all and whether you go 1/4, parallel or full all depends on your goals. As long as you maintain proper knee tracking and the natural curvature of your spine – generally speaking – you’ll be in good shape.
In regards to Dr Hatfield, it is important to note that he did not (nearly) do only one type of squat. If you go to his web site, you will see that he recommends front squats, safety squats (with a special harness), twisting squats (occasionally), and just about every type of back squat I can think of (full ROM high-bar, low bar, Compensatory acceleration squats , and, I’m sure, many more). So the answer to ‘Should I full squat?’ isn’t a simple yes, but another question. I think that question should be ‘What are your weak points, and what have you done in the past?’ Just a thought.
Thank you all for the input its great!