Decending in the Squat

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
1

I have been squatting for awhile now, and feel pretty comfortable with my form. My question is about the decent. I guess it really depending on whether you are training for explosive power or overall strength or whatnot, but how quick is your decent? I have tried both ways, a slot steady controlled decent and a drop into “the hole”. It feels more comfortable for me to drop into the hole and power it out then to control it all the way down and come out. Don’t get me wrong, the weight is still under control, its just its quick and to the point. So which is better?

I understand i am probably lacking some leg development because of this, but the squat isn’t really an eccentric movement…

2

Some time ago, in an article in Powerlifting-USA, some genius with a stopwatch claimed that the best squatters on earth were taking an average of 1.6 seconds to descend. That’s not a trainwreck, but it’s pretty quick. Over the past several years, it has become popular for lifters to descend slowly until a coach yells “UP!” You even see some of this at the national level. I think it’s a bad idea. Lifters who do this tend to do a split-second pause at the bottom and lose at least part of the stretch reflex. Also, coaches tend to call “UP” slightly early and help their lifters get red lights for being too high. After you’ve done a bazillion squats with training partners who can judge no-shit parallel, you KNOW where parallel is. Even if your 3rd attempt “psych” amounts to premeditated insanity, your subconscious mind still knows what parallel feels like. Let it take you there, without having to think about it.
Strength & courage,
“Coach Joe”

3

I would have to disagree with Coach Joe, and for the exact reasons he gives, suggest that you use a 311 time scheme.

You may have noticed that a 311 rep timing seems to be the most commonly suggested one in a great many T-Mag articles. I actually wondered about this myself for a long time, trying to figure out why that seemed to be the “best” to many of the T-Mag authors.

Then, one day while reading the T-Mag archive, I came across an article that explained it. The reason it seems more comfortable to you to drop, then explode, is because it’s easier. The reason it’s easier is because of what Coach Joe mentions, the stretch shortening cycle. What it means, to quote TC and Ian King, is:

“If the transition from eccentric to isometric to concentric is performed quickly, the resultant concentric contraction is a lot more powerful than if no eccentric action was performed.”

To show this example clearly, try squating down slowly, pausing, then jumping as high as you can. Follow that by quicking dropping into a squat, and immediately jumping as high as you can. Chances are you jumped a lot higher the second time.

The reason that a 311 tempo is suggested, is because by spending three seconds to lower the weight, then pausing for 1 second, you are losing that elastic stretch energy, and forcing your muscles to work harder to lift weight. The last 1, for the concentric motion, means that you should basically lift the weight as fast as possible. It may not actually move very fast, if you’re using a heavy weight, but the idea is to try to lift it fast.

Basically, this is less about utilizing the eccentric movement, than it is about accentuating the concentric movement. By doing this, you can place maximum tension on your muscles during the concentric lift, and if you strive to lift the weight fast, you can increase your power.

For the full details on this concept, see the article by TC and Ian King called “Four Seconds to More Productive Workouts”[1].

[1] http://t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_53four

4

Thank you for both your answers. I guess i am going to star my squat decent with a TuT around 3. I will have to lower the weight but in the long run it will be better for my leg development.
Once again, thanks for the responses.

5

I’d have to agree that a “311” or even slower tempo makes sense, if hypertrophy is the primary goal. Because the original question appeared under Strength Sports, I assumed that the goal was powerlifting, not bodybuilding. In powerlifting, failure to do at least one below-parallel squat is more common than all other causes for disqualification combined. So, I tell powerlifters to do each squat–but not box squats–with the same form they’ll use in a contest: a “20X” tempo, breaking parallel, learning to use the stretch reflex without destroying their patela tendons. For more CONCENTRIC time under tension, they use more weight, and the last, gut-busting rep is about slow enough to be timed with a calendar. (This is NOT intended to be optimum bodybuilding form.)
Strength & courage,
“Coach Joe”

6

I lower mine in 1.2 secs on the average, don’t think about it too much

7

You need to answer your own question in your post before anyone can anwser one for you. You never did state if max strength or max size was your goal. Everyone here has giving you solid information but to what end if you haven’t decided on what to use it. Basically don’t f#ck around when you are squatting heavy. Get down and get back up. The longer under the weight the harder it is. If you are trying to get bigger, take as long as you want. Make the lift as hard as possible and grow more.
First though, you gotta know where you want to go.

8

Thanks Coach Joe and TP. My goal actually isn’t pure hypertrophy. I just want to add weight to my squat. I am squatting around 225 x 5. Frankly being concerned about hypertrophy with a fairly light squat seems ridiculous. It reminds me of when scarface once said “First you get the money, then you get the power, then you get the women.” Well in this case first you get the poundage then you get the power, then you bulk up. I just don’t want to rely on the stretch reflex but once i get 300+ i can worry about that. Thanks all.