I have a big problem with squating. My technique is good I think. My 1 rep maxes are: bench 315, deadlift 405(did it easy), powerclean 245, squat 275 ( and I struggled).
I’ve also tried westside’s box squating techniques and have found it harder than a normal full (thighs against calves or ass to the grass as poliquin would say) squat.
Currently my legs get trained once every 5 days.
Can anyone help.
I know how you feel. I can bench 385, deadlift 275 for sets of 6, but am lucky to be able to squat 250. I do go all the way down so I am sure that is part of it. I also weigh 270 which means I am moving 50 pounds more than a 220 pound guy on the same weight. I am also 6-5, so that may have something to do with it, I’m not sure…
Just work at it. Like Norb said, ‘squat, add weight, squat again.’ There’s no easy way.
Four months ago, I was about where Jason B. is now (425 bench, 500 deadlift, 335 squat); my squat and DL deficiencies were due to lower back problems I’d had all my life. However, rather than resign myself to this disparity, I decided that, once my latest pinched nerve recovered, I had to address my weak link, which was my spinal erectors (and core strength in general). I tried flat back good mornings and stiff-leg deadlifts without a lot of improvement. I tried a few other movements with some progress, but not enough. Finally, I started performing power-arched good mornings and power-arched Romanian deadlifts. I augmented these with reverse hypers and glute-ham raises. Now, after two months, my max (contest legal) squat is finally over 500 lbs, and it continues to improve every week. Also, with the increased lower back and core strength, I simply feel a lot better. This change, along with serious forearm/grip training I did at the same time, has allowed my to finally have functional strength that is useful in daily life, as opposed to being strong only on the bench. I don’t know what your weak link is, so I can’t give much in the way of specific advice. Hell, you may not know what it is yet. I would advise you to find it and defeat it, and to continue reading Dave Tate’s Westside articles on squat. Good luck.
I have a similar problem. My maxes are nearly identical to Novak’s, and I have an extremely hard time adding weight to my squat without sacrificing the depth of the squat. Glute-ham raises and reverse hypers sound like an interesting approach but I don’t have access to this equipment. What do people think about maybe incorporating heavier than max half and quarter squats in order get used to having the heavier weight on your back? Could this help the full squat?
I would avoid partial squat movements, especially when your weak spot is at the bottom. (You don’t want to be the dork that squats 315 three inches deep). Rather than ignoring this problem, you should focus on it. Train with weights that you are capable of taking all the way down. Since you say you sometimes lose depth, try box squats. If your knees move forward, work on your hamstrings. If your back rounds, work on your erectors. If your knees bow in, force them out.
Glute-ham raises don’t require any equipment. Just find something to hook your feet under, and do them off the floor. Likewise, reverse hypers can be done with a dumbbell on a standard back extension bench.
How about adding another leg training day during that 5-day period? I find that when I’m hitting a plateau with my leg training, a “saturation” period of training helps. I mean by splitting up your leg training into two days. Squats (box squats or regular), as the primary exercise for Day One. While maybe doing the deads or good mornings with another hamstring specific exercise. Of course, this wouldn’t be a regular thing, but only to help you out of a plateau.
“Not” to flame toss12, but, I find it puzzling that when
experiencing difficulty with their squat, so many
people opt to add weight to the bar and only do 1/4
reps. Wouldn’t it make more sense to cut the weight
and increase the ROM and work on form?
As far as reverse hypers go, none of the 3 gyms I train at have a "RH" machine, and yet I have managed to make them a staple in my routine. I either perform them on a horizontal hyper ext. bench and go backwards, or drape myself over some kind of flat raised platform, using a dumbbell for resistance. (This movement has helped me recover from 2 herniated S1+ L5 discs!)
Improvisation is the key to survival in the weight game. I have had some of my best workouts in "rat-bag" gyms with limited equipment! Most times the answer is right in front of us; sometimes it's staring back at us in the gym mirror!
P.S. Some quality advice given by you on this thread ... sometimes ya wonder if people ever notice...?
always split legs into squat days/ deadlift days. give enough recouperation in between so you are not sore in any leg area. it just takes time to get used to doing the motion. Start off with a weight you can do properly and work your way up. Never sacrifice form. I’m so used to doing full range squats that the half squats feel weird to me now. I would not be able to properly guage my own max squat because the powerlifting squat is so much different then the high bar narrow stance full squats that i use in my quad routines. You have to also understand that is it really about the weight you use or the way you look, or the way you perform athletically and what your goal is. laters pk
Have you tried the 20 rep squat? It worked for me, add 5 lbs every three - four days to your squat. Insure to work on your breathing and have a spotter to critique your form and provide motivation. There is a pretty good article on hardgainer.com called the psychology of the 20 rep squat. Enjoy and happy squattin .
this may be heresy on this board, but here goes… not everyone can squat heavy. i am 6’3" and the only thing i have ever gotten from squats is a bigger butt and a sore back. i have gone to the head of the exercise physiology dept at the local university to check my form, and it was perfect. you can still put size on legs with hacks, presses, or whatever. i don’t believe you lose that much in the way of all over strength either. just my two cents. i still DL, but the squats never worked for me. i have been at it for 7 years, so i am no newby to this. i also like the powetec squat, that one is great.
I have no simple solution - just a couple of points you might ask yourself. I might be wrong but it sounds to me that your technique might not be the best. I’m lead to this assumption since I believe you already went through phases of ‘trying harder’ and that your effort is not the problem (working your legs is something that should really hurt). With the wrong technique you will introduce a weak link to the chain which ultimatly will limit your ability to move higher loads.
Do you 'feel' the squats from your quads over your hams/glute up over your back? Do you push the weight through your heels or over your toes? What or where is your weak point? Whatever your special technique is (depending on your stature this can differ from person to person), it should allow you to push the bar hard and safe over the whole range of motion.
Once you're sure you have the correct technique (and you might have to experiment a bit to find that) you will have to start to 'burn it in', i.e. train your nervous system to make the movement automatic. So the first workouts should be of low intensity but high volume. After that you might want to approach higher weights with the same technique. 20's are very good for that, since you gradually increase weight.
What partials are concerned, they might or might not be good. If your weak point is around or slightly above the parallel position (as I guess it is for most people) 1/4 reps will do nothing to help you there. In that case full squats with less weight are much better but require more flexibility in your hips (don't curve your lower back) and a slightly different technique.
If you are a taller individual, you may just be at a biomechanical disadvantage, especially if you suffer from sore back/big butt syndrome. If this isn’t the case, I’d throw in front squats, really targeting the quads. I was stuck at 315 for 5 a couple of months ago, threw in fronts as my main movement, and two months later did 315 for 8 for TWO sets. Again, this may be individual, but it is worth a shot, as well as all the other solid advice so many others have given.
I am always amazed at the quality of responses I read on this board. There has been some good info posted here. I was in the same position a few years back, but it was my own fault, I hated to squat! I loved to bench and deadlift, but squatting always hurt my back, and because I sucked at it, I didn’t want to do it. Today, my squat is my best lift because I decided I didn’t want to suck at it anymore. Two things jump out at me when reading your post. 1. You can touch your knees to your thighs. If you compare that picture to the technique Dave Tate describes in “Squat 900 lbs” you have to realize your stance is way too narrow. 2. If you can go that low, your back has got to be rounding at the bottom, which is probably bad, and not a position to generate much power. Go to the Tate article and look at the pics. Dave’s feet are as wide as the inner collars on the bar. Also, a trick I learned from a local powerlifter/gym owner is to step up to a bench, with your knees touching the bench, keep your lower leg upright and squat by lowering your ass backward. This requires you to keep the bar low on the back, your stance wide, and the weight on your heels. Once you learn to squat like his, work on your hams and you should make progress again. Go back to box squats also, they rock!
It doesn’t matter what you squat unless you are a powerlifter or strongman. Even in strongman it is debatable as usually there isn’t a strict squat lift. As long as you are making progress that is all that matters. BTW, I don’t think anyone on this planet has perfect squat form.