Deadlifting the Day After Upper Body?

[quote]dtheyer wrote:
Ok, my current training scheme has me training two days in a row (upper/lower body split) followed by a day of rest and repeat.

Now, if I do deadlifts on my lower-body day after training my upper body hard the day before, is this counterproductive?[/quote]

If you want to minimize overlapping, as others said, avoid HORIZONTAL pulling (any kind of row) the day before DL. In my experience, you can go with VERTICAL pulling (pull-up, chins, lat pull down…). I deadlift the day after vertical push/pull, and didn’t notice any problem.

I have never seen a upper/lower split with Deads in the upper body day

OP, if your so concerned about it, try doing:

Day 1: upper
Day 2: Off
Day 3: Lower
Day 4: off

and repeat. Personally I think you’ll be fine, but maybe you can do the current split for a few weeks and then switch to the above and see if it makes any difference. I think most people underestimate how quickly their bodies can recover anyway, especially with enough food.

[quote]hardgnr wrote:
I have never seen a upper/lower split with Deads in the upper body day

OP, if your so concerned about it, try doing:

Day 1: upper
Day 2: Off
Day 3: Lower
Day 4: off

and repeat. Personally I think you’ll be fine, but maybe you can do the current split for a few weeks and then switch to the above and see if it makes any difference. I think most people underestimate how quickly their bodies can recover anyway, especially with enough food.[/quote]

Please…the avatar…

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
when did deadlifting become a lower body exercise?[/quote]

I know my glutes are ready to pick up and go home after deadlifting. I feel it all up and down my back, but my ass is saying “OH MY GOD!” at the end of my last set.

Edit: However, I, too do my DL’ing on back day, as the first lift of the day. I keep back day on Friday and leg day on Monday, so I get 2 days rest between them, as I need my glutes in top condition for both days.

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
when did deadlifting become a lower body exercise?[/quote]

I’ve read some dumb shit on here before but this must be up there with the best!

Generating force into the ground via your upper body eh buddy?? If Deadlifting on back day really needs to be discussed, then you shouldn’t be allowed out of the beginners forum.

[quote]stockzy wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
when did deadlifting become a lower body exercise?

I’ve read some dumb shit on here before but this must be up there with the best!

Generating force into the ground via your upper body eh buddy?? If Deadlifting on back day really needs to be discussed, then you shouldn’t be allowed out of the beginners forum.

[/quote]

just out of curiosity, what do you deadlift? im hoping the guy saying i shouldnt be allowed out of the play pen is at least stronger than me

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
Rape Weight wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
Rape Weight wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
Rape Weight wrote:
kylec72 wrote:
Rape Weight wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
when did deadlifting become a lower body exercise?

Yeah guys, why is it a lower body ME exercise at Westside??

Touche. But you can’t deny the back muscles are the primary movers for deadlifts, and in fairness there is a big difference between low intensity lat/upper back work and heavy bb rows.

If you’re deadlifting with your back primarily, you’re going to experience some nasty injury.

2009 strikes again

fml

How? By saying if you’re not initiating the pull with leg drive you’ll probably hurt your back? How the fuck are YOU deadlifting?

i deadlift on back day, so i guess im lifting with my back? amazing that i dont even get lower back pain when i deadlift, and i dont use a belt either.

i guess i would fuck up my back doing RDLs too? cause you dont use any leg drive to get the weight up, its all back.

I’m not sure I understand your point. I was responding to the post that said “back muscles are the primary movers” of the deadlift. That is false and when initiating the movement with your back, you are at a far greater risk of injury.

I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic with the RDL bit or not. I hope you are…

no, im not. yea you cant deadlift without using a little leg drive, its impossible. but theres a reason a lot of guys deadlift on back day…and it isnt because you mostly use your legs.
[/quote]

Exactly.

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
stockzy wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
when did deadlifting become a lower body exercise?

I’ve read some dumb shit on here before but this must be up there with the best!

Generating force into the ground via your upper body eh buddy?? If Deadlifting on back day really needs to be discussed, then you shouldn’t be allowed out of the beginners forum.

just out of curiosity, what do you deadlift? im hoping the guy saying i shouldnt be allowed out of the play pen is at least stronger than me[/quote]

it depends how you perform the lift. conventional deadlifts can be done with a lot of ham, glute and lower back or upper back, dependign on the form. just because you do it on back day doesnt mean that everyone else is doing it wrong.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
kylec72 wrote:
Rape Weight wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
when did deadlifting become a lower body exercise?

Yeah guys, why is it a lower body ME exercise at Westside??

Touche. But you can’t deny the back muscles are the primary movers for deadlifts, and in fairness there is a big difference between low intensity lat/upper back work and heavy bb rows.

I’m denying it because there is almost no movement at all at the shoulder, neck, and elbows. There is movement the knees, ankles, and hips, hence why it’s considered a lower-body exercise. The upper back and erectors work at stabilizers, not movers.

Bodybuilders usually perform deadlifts at the end of a back workout; athletes and powerlifters perform them on lower body days.

You can do deadlifts the day after an upper body workout. I’ve done it for years. I don’t see how one wouldn’t be able to. Of course, there is a drawback to doing so, but EVERY program has drawbacks. You will never be as fresh during a workout done the day after another one compared to one after a day off.

My max-effort lower-body day is done after a workout that looks like this:

  1. Speed bench press
  2. Rack lockouts or 3-,4-, or 5-board press.
  3. Dumbbell bench press variation
  4. Row variation
  5. Pushdowns
  6. External rotations[/quote]

You can retract your shoulders at the top of the lift for upper back emphasis.

You certainly don’t want to move your elbows, as they Should be locked out.

The lower-body parts move, yes, but I believe you interpreted my phrase “primary movers” differently than I intended. My intention was to state deadlifts produce the greatest amount of workload or development, however you wish to view it, in the back muscles of the posterior chain. If one were to strictly use deadlifts as their only leg exercise, their leg development would be minimal, but if you were to do the same hypothetical as the only back exercise, the person could still potentially achieve significant back development. As Live pointed out, this is why most people treat deadlifts as a back exercise.

This is the bodybuilding forum, and unless stated otherwise, we are led to presume the OP is looking for a setup most conducive to bodybuilding. Following up on that statement, it would be beneficial to retract the shoulders at the top of the deadlift in order to make the lift most effective for overall development.

For a powerlifter, though, and in particular the Westside protocol, I agree it may make the most sense to do deadlifts on lower-body/squat day. However, if you look at Matt Kroc, for instance, his setup places deadlifts as its own day separate from squats. http://www.elitefts.com/documents/kroc_files2.htm

I never said one couldn’t do deadlifts the day after upper body; in fact, I did the same setup for quite a while. Any program will have drawbacks, like you said, but one should always try to minimize them as much as possible. Avoiding heavy bb rows the day before deadlifts is, in my opinion, one such way of minimizing program drawbacks.

I think IF you can move your elbows whilst deadlifting, you’re not doing enough weight. You should not be able to row what you’re deadlifting.

[quote]Cherrymennos wrote:
I think IF you can move your elbows whilst deadlifting, you’re not doing enough weight. You should not be able to row what you’re deadlifting.[/quote]

You’ll also tear your bicep or some shit.

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
Rape Weight wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
Rape Weight wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
Rape Weight wrote:
kylec72 wrote:
Rape Weight wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
when did deadlifting become a lower body exercise?

Yeah guys, why is it a lower body ME exercise at Westside??

Touche. But you can’t deny the back muscles are the primary movers for deadlifts, and in fairness there is a big difference between low intensity lat/upper back work and heavy bb rows.

If you’re deadlifting with your back primarily, you’re going to experience some nasty injury.

2009 strikes again

fml

How? By saying if you’re not initiating the pull with leg drive you’ll probably hurt your back? How the fuck are YOU deadlifting?

i deadlift on back day, so i guess im lifting with my back? amazing that i dont even get lower back pain when i deadlift, and i dont use a belt either.

i guess i would fuck up my back doing RDLs too? cause you dont use any leg drive to get the weight up, its all back.

I’m not sure I understand your point. I was responding to the post that said “back muscles are the primary movers” of the deadlift. That is false and when initiating the movement with your back, you are at a far greater risk of injury.

I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic with the RDL bit or not. I hope you are…

no, im not. yea you cant deadlift without using a little leg drive, its impossible. but theres a reason a lot of guys deadlift on back day…and it isnt because you mostly use your legs.
[/quote]

So when you’re RDLing you’re not utilizing your hamstrings at all? “All back?”

There’s a reason even more people deadlift on leg days…

[quote]Rape Weight wrote:

There’s a reason even more people deadlift on leg days…[/quote]

you use your hamstrings on the eccentric portion of the lift

you use your back to get the weight back to the starting postion. please explain to how a hamstring can move in that direction…without rotating your shin and foot 180 degrees.

i mean is this conversation really happening? are you really not aware of how the hamstrings work?

Holy shit what the hell is going on in this thread. Deadlifts, as has been said before, use the WHOLE posterior chain. Yes, glutes and hamstrings are involved, and yes as they insert into the joints that are MOVING, they tend to be considered PRIME MOVERS.

And romanian deadlifts emphasize hamstrings MORE, as you are getting huge hip extension.

And will someone please explain how the hamstrings ONLY work in the eccentric portion? Like, what? They aren’t used on the way up at all, but they magically take over the lift on the way down? Do goodmornings not work the hamstrings as well?

This is unbelievable.

I can generally do bench or OH Press the day before I deadlift without my deadlift suffering. Whatever I do the day AFTER deadlifting always sucks though, no matter what.

[quote]danchubb wrote:
Holy shit what the hell is going on in this thread. Deadlifts, as has been said before, use the WHOLE posterior chain. Yes, glutes and hamstrings are involved, and yes as they insert into the joints that are MOVING, they tend to be considered PRIME MOVERS.

And romanian deadlifts emphasize hamstrings MORE, as you are getting huge hip extension.

And will someone please explain how the hamstrings ONLY work in the eccentric portion? Like, what? They aren’t used on the way up at all, but they magically take over the lift on the way down? Do goodmornings not work the hamstrings as well?

This is unbelievable. [/quote]

you understand that a GM is the same movement as a RDL with different bar placement…right?

I never understood why hostility has to arise from discussions like this…you guys are arguing something really dumb, lol. It’s like you’re arguing whether the close grip bench press is a better tri-cep exercise, or a better chest exercise? or more your shoulders? or more your inner chest?? OH NOOOOOOOO. Relax!! The deadlift, originally was performed as a movement to display power mainly in the lower body. Of course it involves the back, forarms, bi-ceps, whatever. There’s no point in arguing any of these points. If done with correct form, the traditional deadlift will mainly emphasize the glutes, quads, and lower back. OBVIOUSLY every other muscle in your body is involved with this. Just do it right, and grow.

I consider myself a lurker mostly, as you can tell from my post count. That said I got to reply to this, cos there’s either some serious misinformation or misunderstanding in this thread.

The DL does work the back muscles, the lats, traps, and of course the spinal erectae. But the prime movers are always going to be the hamstrings, glutes and quads (the extent of each depends on the variation of deadlift).

My understanding has been that the lower back works in isometric fashion, holding the vertebrae in position in relation to the hip. There’s no way they actually move shit in the concentric portion unless you round your back on the eccentric, and if you’re using any appreciable weight, I doubt you can re-arch your back if you do.

The same goes with the RDL, or SDL, the lower back isn’t “lifting” shit, or shouldn’t be. They are working though, same with the upper back muscles. And just for the record, both variations shift even more focus on the leg muscles.

I can see why someone would include DL’s in an upper body session, due to the stimulus to the upper back (lots of weight will do that). However saying “your back is lifting” is misleading, if not somewhat ignorant.

i must be doing something wrong then.

because i get no glute or quad DOMS when i deadlift

but i get glute DOMS when i leg press

and while i do get DOMS in my hams from RDLing

i also get DOMS in my back, especially traps.

i guess your guys’ lower bodies start right below the chest

[quote]rundymc wrote:
I consider myself a lurker mostly, as you can tell from my post count. That said I got to reply to this, cos there’s either some serious misinformation or misunderstanding in this thread.

The DL does work the back muscles, the lats, traps, and of course the spinal erectae. But the prime movers are always going to be the hamstrings, glutes and quads (the extent of each depends on the variation of deadlift).

My understanding has been that the lower back works in isometric fashion, holding the vertebrae in position in relation to the hip. There’s no way they actually move shit in the concentric portion unless you round your back on the eccentric, and if you’re using any appreciable weight, I doubt you can re-arch your back if you do.

The same goes with the RDL, or SDL, the lower back isn’t “lifting” shit, or shouldn’t be. They are working though, same with the upper back muscles. And just for the record, both variations shift even more focus on the leg muscles.

I can see why someone would include DL’s in an upper body session, due to the stimulus to the upper back (lots of weight will do that). However saying “your back is lifting” is misleading, if not somewhat ignorant.[/quote]

So in summary: my original point a page back.