Hi I have next question. Jim (and everyone else) tell me what about touch and go deadlift? Is there any other difference than hold in tension? I noticed that for me first rep is hardest and with touch go I can do more reps than dead stop. For example my last record was about 3 x 370 lbs with dead stop and 3 x 400 lbs with touch and stop. For some time I am doing only dead stop but I think about back to touch and go. Is that good method for build strength and muscle? Or maybe it’s worse than dead stop. What do you think?
I noticed that you Jim also doing touch and go, that’s why I am asking about.
You pretty much answered your own question. Personally, I dead stop all of my warm ups and first set last work. I touch and go my work sets but you should not be bouncing the weights even then. Fill control on the way down, touch and explode up. I have found that dead stop have helped me to really build strength off the floor where most folks are weakest.
If you’re going to do touch and go for your BBB sets make sure to stay as tight as possible so your form doesnt break down too bad. Really activate your lats and drill your heels into the floor.
I can only speak from my own experience, but I get a lot more results with resetting after every rep. I use touch and go with high rep assistance stuff or first set last. Test both and see which works best for you.
[quote]jkt123 wrote:
If you’re going to do touch and go for your BBB sets make sure to stay as tight as possible so your form doesnt break down too bad. Really activate your lats and drill your heels into the floor. [/quote]
I second this. It’s easy to underestimate the weight on the 5 x 10 sets, especially if you really went hard on the final work set and hit a big rep count. The first time I added the BBB sets, I did just that and the first rep of the first set was absolute crap, even though the weight was (seemed like it should have been anyway) light. It’s also easy, once you’ve realized that the sets are going to be serious work, to try and bang them out quick and get them over with. Unless your form is nailed down, even with tired muscles, that’s a mistake.
I personally cannot touch and go with perfect form. I have never seen anyone do it perfectly either and I work at two different gyms…hips will be too high, abs too lose, backrounding, etc ,etc too much to mess up.
[quote]RAWRER wrote:
Hi I have next question. Jim (and everyone else) tell me what about touch and go deadlift? Is there any other difference than hold in tension? I noticed that for me first rep is hardest and with touch go I can do more reps than dead stop. For example my last record was about 3 x 370 lbs with dead stop and 3 x 400 lbs with touch and stop. For some time I am doing only dead stop but I think about back to touch and go. Is that good method for build strength and muscle? Or maybe it’s worse than dead stop. What do you think?
I noticed that you Jim also doing touch and go, that’s why I am asking about.[/quote]
I think I get asked this a million times per week - for most strong lifters, it doesn’t matter. If your form gets shitty using one kind, don’t do it. People like to qualify deadlifts and squats but at the end of the day, strong people lift big weights.
I will never criticize a man that can deadlift, touch and go, 800 for multiple reps.
Many strong people do it both ways so my advice is to experiment and use the way that helps you increase your DL. And here’s the thing - if you are one of the people who train hard and smart, you won’t get weaker.
My past few cycles were FSL paused reps for my assistance. I noticed in the book there was only Bench, squat and OHP listed as the paused reps movements. For my deadlifts I did every rep as a complete single. Let go of bar step back and go through the entire setup etc.
It felt great and really helped my deadlift technique and breaking it off the floor.
I sometimes, for some unexplainable reason, start to worry about this. On the one hand, I think, you don’t do dynamic effort touch and goes, why do max effort touch and go. My personal compromise is…I do the required reps from a dead stop. Then, on say rep 4 of the final set on the 3’s week, I let it rip with touch and goes. I do get wicked sore from it, and the continuous tension on my back and hams has to be good for me.
Rave, funny, but I actually do the opposite. I find that my “touch and go’s” will turn into a bounce as I get fatigued on the set. So for instance, when I’m doing my set of 3s, I will touch and go until I feel myself with the urge to bounce it(say around the 6th rep), then I will reset and do a couple of more from a dead stop.
I think touch and go’s are fine, but I also think that what many people think are touch and go’s are really more of a bounce. The problem with bouncing is that any back position problems you start having during the set can’t get corrected until you do reset. So, in short, touch and go’s, fine. Bouncing, bad.
edit I just read what i wrote and it read to me like I was criticizing what Rave said. Or saying that what I do is better. That wasn’t my intent. I was just saying how I did it.
[quote]KCthick wrote: edit I just read what i wrote and it read to me like I was criticizing what Rave said. Or saying that what I do is better. That wasn’t my intent. I was just saying how I did it. [/quote]
KC, I read it like intended. Don’t know how Rave feels about it though.
On topic. I never touch and go, but I don’t let go of the bar until the set is over.
1x5: 5 paused reps, holding on to the bar until the 5th has been put down
5x1: 5 singles, letting go of the bar, resting in between
I now rest the bar on the floor a 1-2 seconds between each rep, but I still find that the 1st rep is the hardest. I used to touch and go. I switched it up because I am very weak off the floor, but honestly i’m not sure it helped with the off the floor problem that much.
By design deadlifts are hardest off the floor, as this is the portion of the lift with the greatest inertia (no momentum). Most people I would imagine are “weak off the floor” in maximal attempts I would imagine,especially without gear. The solution is always to get stronger…oh and to lift quicker too. Don’t be lazy on the lift up fast eh
Also this illustrates why rack pulls are easier…better leverages
KC - None taken - didn’t even cross my mind - I may try what you do though. I know this may be unpopular - and I ONLY do this with deads - I swear (for all the PL police out there) But I have always felt a little different about the dead lift. I am a little sick in the head and I realize this. I approach my deads like Kroc rows. I try, I really do, to maintain form. But at some point in every max effort/ max rep set, all order breaks down and it becomes dirty, violent, evil. Usually between reps 7 and 12 depending on the week. At that point, I employ every dirty and underhanded trick I know to hoist that shit. It is NOT pretty, form-conscious, nothing. Like I said, like Kroc rows. By any means necessary. Beginners and professionals, I am a BAD example. I am also getting a little older (46). That may seem counter intuitive to use bad form later, but I also know my body and limits.
FYI,
It is also quite possible to use momentum on pause and pulls. I have done it often - After I land, I flex my hams/ dip the hips like Coan once and pull again. It becomes very rhythmic and I am telling you, despite a few seconds down, there’s momentum. Thing is, even with the pause, I am staying tight and pulling quick. If you are serious about keeping your hands on the bar - at least in my case - I have to pull quick because I get a little light headed bent over - nothing serious - but also not the way I want to initiate the pull. The other option, and I have seen people do this, is to stop, stand for a second, then go down and pull again. Not my style though.
You cant compare a deadlift to a krock row… the danger fr9m loose form on both is like comparing a punch to a bullet. Do you honestly think youre that much fit5er fr9m extra reps that you would compromise your spine? You do realize y9u wont be able to do much with a f up spine right? If your back is really rounding excessively why bother? Risk reward isnt panning out here. If youre trying to achieve more volume do ajother set. The extra reps arent kaking you stronger at the deadlift because the muscles inv9lv3d are utiliz8ng a different recruitment pattern…i hope people dont follow suit
Jamesliftsheavy,
That is why i prefaced my comment with I realize I am a little off regarding this and “I am a BAD example” - and yes, I CAN compare a deadlift to a Kroc row and did just that. It is the attitude I am comparing. I am 46 years old and been doing deads for 20+ years and still walking upright like most homo-sapiens. Like I also said, usually between reps 7-12, not all of them.
And where exactly did I say anything about my back “rounding excessively?” Please read the words, “Thing is, even with the pause, I am staying tight and pulling quick.” Does that sound even remotely similar to “loose form” from your post?
C’mon man, relax, I’ll be ok.