A lot more bodybuilders then you think use platforms when deadlifting, a little less snatch grip. I think your relating regular gym rats and beach muscle guys with more focused bodybuilders. The former is more likely to workout with less intensity.
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
detazathoth wrote:
Yo, I need a wingman when I get to SC, is one of your roomies cool enough to do some hilarity?
Ooo! Pick me! Pick me!
I’ve been watching The Pickup Artist a lot lately.[/quote]
I think you’ll be too busy with Stronghold working on hip flexibility.
[quote]detazathoth wrote:
buckeye girl wrote:
detazathoth wrote:
Yo, I need a wingman when I get to SC, is one of your roomies cool enough to do some hilarity?
Ooo! Pick me! Pick me!
I’ve been watching The Pickup Artist a lot lately.
I think you’ll be too busy with Stronghold working on hip flexibility.[/quote]
I think you’re right.
First Snatch grip deads from a platform drastically change the technique of the exercise, if you should happen to have the flexibility to actually get into position properly.
You used rugs for your example. This does not give a good example of the position involved when using an actual platform that the bar can travel over. The start position is much more like a squat than a pull. This drastically changes muscle recruitment patterns and technique. Additionally, your set-up in your case leaves you very exposed to injury potential regardless of training goal.
This is inefficient if your goal is increasing your effectiveness at a competitive pull.
I have used these in the past and still do, but I use them as assistance lift to work my upper back, flexibility and grip, since that’s about the only thing that gets stressed heavily. I have gotten 405 with straps and 315 for 4 without straps. I use a smaller deficit as well. For reference I pulled 585 from a 4 inch platform conventionally today. So it’s only about 52% of my best pull (60 something with straps).
Other than grip and flexibility, there’s not a whole lot they offer you unless you compete in Oly lifting and even then you would use a smaller platform because perfect competitive technique is so important.
It is not a good substitute for regular deadlift training. If you’re talking about muscle hypertrophy, then as multiple people have said already you are in the wrong forum. This forum cares dick-all about “complete hypertrophy” or “complete development” except in lagging groups as required to move up a competitive. You should post in Bodybuilding if that’s the case.
[quote]Alffi wrote:
Maybe if you work the short competition lift in training,you will do better in competition but if you do the larger lift in training,then you will be stronger over a larger range of motion than you would be otherwise.[/quote]
Use your mind here. You want to teach your body to deadlift 500 lbs…so youre going to do that by doing a completely different exercise with only 250 lbs? You still havent managed to explain to me how using less weight across a greater range of motion is going to help one to pull 2x+ as much weight in a shorter ROM.
[quote]Alffi wrote:
Competitors may do their thing and the non-specialized training crowd can do theirs. But the training lift of the PL crowd has been hammered into the public concious as a complete exercise,while it seems like it could be easily improved on, and the more complete variations are seen as just that; freak ‘assistance’ work or whatever that one may include now and then.[/quote]
Once again, you are missing the point. Circus deads ARE NOT a “more complete exercise” for many reasons and they do not improve upon anything in relation to normal deadlifts.
[quote]Alffi wrote:
If you care about performance beyond competition and are you saying that no competitor does that?[/quote]
Performance in what? In dish washing? Clothes folding? Intramural Ultimate Frisbee? Get this functional bullshit out of here.
[quote]Alffi wrote:
Competition aside (already addressed), larger ROM is praised in every other exercise. Plus reserve strength. [/quote]
ROM for the sake of ROM is not praised. Greater ROM’s are trained in order to strengthen specific parts of the lift. Im not arguing against pulling from an inch or two up, Im arguing against your assertion that your party trick deadlifts are somehow a superior exercise for anyone who deadlifts, as you asserted in your first post.
What is reserve strength? If this is something that is critical to your argument (I use that word loosely), then you would be best to explain what you mean rather than simply dropping sciency sounding terms.
[quote]Alffi wrote:
Your muscles are not going to think; “that’s only X pounds,not going to get stronger now!” They decrease the amount of load because the movement is harder. Just like you can’t strict curl what you can cheat curl.
But if all you care about is the load rather than the stress itself,the time under tension and the range of motion in which you develop,then you should inflate the numbers to eternity.[/quote]
Your analogy is seriously flawed and if you cant see that, then you need to sit down and think about what youre saying here for a second.
Once again, look at the top of the forum. This is the Strength Sports section. “Inflating numbers to eternity” is the fucking bottom line. Go back to the bodybuilding section.
[quote]rudilerm wrote:
Matt Kroc squats ATG in parts of his training. But not in competition. I think we can agree he knows something about powerlifting?[/quote]
OK, one powerlifter does this occasionally. How many 1000 lb squatters regularly train with a range of motion greater than what they will be using in competition?
By the way, Matt Kroc also nearly kills himself to cut 30 lbs to lift in the 220’s. Is Kroc a phenomenal powerlifter? Of course. Should everything he does be emulated? Of course not.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
OK, one powerlifter does this occasionally. How many 1000 lb squatters regularly train with a range of motion greater than what they will be using in competition?
By the way, Matt Kroc also nearly kills himself to cut 30 lbs to lift in the 220’s. Is Kroc a phenomenal powerlifter? Of course. Should everything he does be emulated? Of course not.[/quote]
A slightly below parallel training squat depth is not a bad idea. Then again, neither is occasionally going above parallel. Basically, variety is nice.
Don’t forget the quad tear that was the result of some very deep raw squats. (No. I’m not saying that’s what happens when you squat deep…)
I didnt read all that came before, but imo:
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full rom is only necessarily beneficial when training for hypertrophy, and still you need a decent load - so if lifting for strength the argument that full (or excessive) rom is a moot point
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if you competing in PL, then your motor learning is going to be different if you pull from a deficit all the time
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It is very hard on different muscles, and especially the Ns to always lift from a deficit, and considering it might double the TUT, the time holding the bar and the time the body is taxed, ould lead to the conclusion that there is unnecessary body taxing being done my lifting from a deficit at all times.
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most elite DLers dont get stuck off the floor, so no need for the deficit training