[quote]Alffi wrote:
I specifically said that for a competitor (in PL) the situation may be different but for anyone else who simply wants to get strong in the regular dead ROM AND MORE,then increasing the range would help. Maybe comparing to rack pulls would have been a better analogy. And I’m talking about training. What’s the use of maximizing leverage and piling up tons of weight when you could be using far less weight (wasting less time and chance of injury) and still developing just the same,or better? In training,that is.
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Rack deads are done to overload a specific portion of the lift and the muscles involved in lockout as well as grip and allowing a lifter to get used to holding heavier weights. This differs from circus deads in that circus deads do not allow a lifter to apply a greater load to the targeted muscles than a normal deadlift. In fact, they significantly decrease the amount of load a lifter can use. This is why they are impractical.
Please explain to me how performing an exercise with less carryover to the competition lift than the competition lift itself is not “wasting time”.
You are more likely to get injured doing your silly circus deads than you are doing rack pulls due to the extreme positions into which circus deads place the body.
It sounds to me like avoiding more effective exercises in favor of less effective ones that present a greater chance of injury is a bad idea. Use some logic here.
[quote]Alffi wrote:
You don’t squat low in competition either but you do squat low in training,right?
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I mainly box squat in my training, but both my box squats and my free squats are to the depth to which I will be squatting in my competition. Whats the point of using less weight in order to perform the lift with a range of motion that isnt conducive to my goals (ie, why spend my time trying to squat 315 atg when my goal is to squat 495 to parallel)? Logic my friend. Logic.
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
Wait. Always follow through? Like always lockout deadlifts? That requires some powerful hips.
[/quote]
Indeed. I can show you some of the training principles I use for my lockout if you want…
You really are in the wrong forum.[/quote]
I think you should move beyond looking at mere numbers in the bar.
Alffi wrote:
I specifically said that for a competitor (in PL) the situation may be different but for anyone else who simply wants to get strong in the regular dead ROM AND MORE,then increasing the range would help. Maybe comparing to rack pulls would have been a better analogy. And I’m talking about training. What’s the use of maximizing leverage and piling up tons of weight when you could be using far less weight (wasting less time and chance of injury) and still developing just the same,or better? In training,that is.
Your muscles are not going to think; “that’s only X pounds,not going to get stronger now!” They decrease the amount of load because the movement is harder. Just like you can’t strict curl what you can cheat curl. But if all you care about is the load rather than the stress itself,the time under tension and the range of motion in which you develop,then you should inflate the numbers to eternity.
Competition aside (already addressed), larger ROM is praised in every other exercise. Plus reserve strength.
If you care about performance beyond competition and are you saying that no competitor does that?
[quote]Alffi wrote:
And I’m talking about training. What’s the use of maximizing leverage and piling up tons of weight when you could be using far less weight (wasting less time and chance of injury) and still developing just the same,or better? In training,that is.
[/quote]
What’s the point of maximizing leverages and moving lots of weight?!
Simple answer: to fucking win
“Using less weight and developing the same or better”
What does that even mean? The point of training is to develop strength. There are plenty of different approaches to get there and lots of other things come into play, but bottom line is that if you want to be stronger, you have to lift heavier and heavier things.
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
Alffi wrote:
And I’m talking about training. What’s the use of maximizing leverage and piling up tons of weight when you could be using far less weight (wasting less time and chance of injury) and still developing just the same,or better? In training,that is.
What’s the point of maximizing leverages and moving lots of weight?!
Simple answer: to fucking win
“Using less weight and developing the same or better”
What does that even mean? The point of training is to develop strength. There are plenty of different approaches to get there and lots of other things come into play, but bottom line is that if you want to be stronger, you have to lift heavier and heavier things. [/quote]
I agree. But outside competition,what need is there to lift like that except for technique work? Or if you do not compete,why not just do an enchanced version of the competition lift which is considered a good exercise? Maybe if you work the short competition lift in training,you will do better in competition but if you do the larger lift in training,then you will be stronger over a larger range of motion than you would be otherwise.
Competitors may do their thing and the non-specialized training crowd can do theirs. But the training lift of the PL crowd has been hammered into the public concious as a complete exercise,while it seems like it could be easily improved on, and the more complete variations are seen as just that; freak ‘assistance’ work or whatever that one may include now and then.
you’re not taking into different bodytypes, what may work for me won’t work for another person. In weight training there is no absolutues for a populace, or else everyone would be doing snatch grip deads to get bigger deads.
[quote]detazathoth wrote:
you’re not taking into different bodytypes, what may work for me won’t work for another person. In weight training there is no absolutues for a populace, or else everyone would be doing snatch grip deads to get bigger deads. [/quote]
Even with an armspan shorter than one’s height, it is possible. For whom would it not be?
[quote]Alffi wrote:
detazathoth wrote:
you’re not taking into different bodytypes, what may work for me won’t work for another person. In weight training there is no absolutues for a populace, or else everyone would be doing snatch grip deads to get bigger deads.
Allright. Well,my armspan is significantly lesser than my height,so I have bad leverages but it has not kept me.[/quote]
And I know that if I do deads standing on a block, I won’t be addressing my weakness which is in the mid-range part of the deadlift, rack pulls from below the knee is the best indicator lift of where my dead is at. I can do deads from blocks all day and it won’t increase my deadlift. What works for me, isn’t automatically going to work for everyone else, you’re not taking into consideration a variety of factors.
[quote]detazathoth wrote:
Alffi wrote:
detazathoth wrote:
you’re not taking into different bodytypes, what may work for me won’t work for another person. In weight training there is no absolutues for a populace, or else everyone would be doing snatch grip deads to get bigger deads.
Allright. Well,my armspan is significantly lesser than my height,so I have bad leverages but it has not kept me.
And I know that if I do deads standing on a block, I won’t be addressing my weakness which is in the mid-range part of the deadlift, rack pulls from below the knee is the best indicator lift of where my dead is at. I can do deads from blocks all day and it won’t increase my deadlift. What works for me, isn’t automatically going to work for everyone else, you’re not taking into consideration a variety of factors. [/quote]
Breaking sticking points seems like a discussion of its own to me. If you subscribe to the school of thought that you need special exercises to break through a plateau, then fine but I don’t think it denies the overall validity of the above mentioned exercise.
[quote]Alffi wrote:
If you subscribe to the school of thought that you need special exercises to break through a plateau, then fine but I don’t think it denies the overall validity of the above mentioned exercise.
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I didn’t realize that there was a special school of thought that said that exercises that target weak points will improve a lift. I thought that was just common sense.
[quote]Alffi wrote:
detazathoth wrote:
Alffi wrote:
detazathoth wrote:
you’re not taking into different bodytypes, what may work for me won’t work for another person. In weight training there is no absolutues for a populace, or else everyone would be doing snatch grip deads to get bigger deads.
Allright. Well,my armspan is significantly lesser than my height,so I have bad leverages but it has not kept me.
And I know that if I do deads standing on a block, I won’t be addressing my weakness which is in the mid-range part of the deadlift, rack pulls from below the knee is the best indicator lift of where my dead is at. I can do deads from blocks all day and it won’t increase my deadlift. What works for me, isn’t automatically going to work for everyone else, you’re not taking into consideration a variety of factors.
Breaking sticking points seems like a discussion of its own to me. If you subscribe to the school of thought that you need special exercises to break through a plateau, then fine but I don’t think it denies the overall validity of the above mentioned exercise.
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I thought you’re argument was that Snatch Grip Deads help increase your normal Dead because of the larger ROM, if we’re not talking about breaking sticking points, then what’s this whole thread about? Hypertrophy? Because this is the wrong forum for that discussion if that’s the case.
There’s a special school of thought that says that you need assistance work to help address weaknesses?
You are missing the point. Circus deadlifts are NOT a useful exercise for those looking to increase their standard ROM deadlift for several reasons:
They do not load the invovled muscles to a greater degree than other exercises (rack pulls, box squats, etc) or even to the same degree as the competition lift. So why the fuck would you waste your time doing something that is less effective? Because it looks cool? Have fun with that.
You conveniently neglected to address this point earlier, but deficit snatch grip deads carry with them a higher degree of risk of injury than other exercises (rack pulls, box squats, etc) and a higher of risk than the competition lift itself. So why the fuck take a higher risk of injury for less benefit?
[quote]Alffi wrote:
If you subscribe to the school of thought that you need special exercises to break through a plateau, then fine but I don’t think it denies the overall validity of the above mentioned exercise.
[/quote]
Special exercises? You mean like snatch grip deads from a 6 inch platform?
Alffi wrote:
If you subscribe to the school of thought that you need special exercises to break through a plateau, then fine but I don’t think it denies the overall validity of the above mentioned exercise.
Special exercises? You mean like snatch grip deads from a 6 inch platform?[/quote]
Oh, I see what you did there.
Yo, I need a wingman when I get to SC, is one of your roomies cool enough to do some hilarity?
