Exactly, DC says himself, in fact I’ll look for the interview, that his warm up sets in no way tax him. They are purely warm-up. Do not criticize that which you do not know about.
" That scenario does not apply to DoggCrapp I assure you. The warmup sets are just that. Warmups nowhere near working sets. :
I just lol.
So ok you warm up your chest with 4 sets ? that involve heavy weights , unless 315 pounds consider low weight or somehting and we live in a world of giants.
And why wamring up each bodypart , dont u think that if you do chest and back or legs the whole body wont warm up? what do you think warm up is , failure train?
Anyway apart that its a low volume training , and low volume is no good for muscle mass , and theres research supporting this for the last 20 years.
Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is an increase in the volume of the non-contractile muscle cell fluid, sarcoplasm. This fluid accounts for 25-30% of the muscle�??s size. Although the cross sectional area of the muscle increases, the density of muscle fibers per unit area decreases, and there is no increase in muscular strength (2). This type of hypertrophy is mainly a result of high rep, high volume , bodybuilder-type�?? training (3).
Chiu, L.Z.F and Barnes, J.L., 2003. The Fitness-Fatigue Model Revisited: Implications for Planning Short- and Long-Term Training. Strength and Conditioning Journal: Vol. 25, No. 6, pp. 42�??51
Benedict,T. 1999. Manipulating Resistance Training Program Variables to Optimize Maximum Strength in Men: A Review. The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research: Vol. 13, No. 3, pp. 289�??304
Gillam, G.M.1981. Effects of frequency of weight training on muscle strength
enhancement. J. Sports Med. Phys. Fitness. 21:432�??436.
btw theres also reaserch that supports , that you cannot train each bodypart unless 4-5 days have passed in order to full recuparate. And the rest is history
Good thing bodybuilding is done in gyms and kitchens and not a freaking laboratory.
References might impress people in your biology class but in the real world where results matter you need to check the DC scoreboard lol.
I guess all those top amateurs and handful of pros that DC train must be experiencing a placebo effect.
If you are going to make an assertion, post the research instead of saying “studies show” because that doesnt mean shit. Dont just post a reference to the study either because none of us know what that study says and no one cares enough to go look.
You can take your lab coats and libraries of studies and it still wont mean jack shit up against the small army of guys that Dante has turned into 230-280 lb monsters.
If a person is warming up with 315 lbs, then they are likely a monster. You dont get it do you? In DC, you do ONE working set after your warm ups. The warm ups are NOT challenging weights and they dont incur any sort of fatigue.
For someone who is inclining 400+ lbs for 10-15 reps (and thats what we are talking about in the case of Big Nasty, Cormier, Levrone, Justin Harris, etc), 315 IS a low weight. If youve got a brain, please use it and think some before you post again.
Is he the type that looks up in the sky at a helicopter and tells everyone around him that “it’s impossible for that thing to fly”?
I can’t even discern what his point is.
[quote]derek wrote:
Is he the type that looks up in the sky at a helicopter and tells everyone around him that “it’s impossible for that thing to fly”?
I can’t even discern what his point is. [/quote]
His point is lifting weights will not build muscle and if it does it will not make you stronger. I think.
I’m sure he’s from the squats are bad for your knees club. Along with the association of feet up while bench pressing affecianados (the studies show that this “isolates” the pectorals better dontcha know?)
I’ve tried DC, but I was not ready for it yet. I didn’t have the mental discipline to go to failure. Once I grow a set and can push myself the way I need to, I will go back to it. It’s obvious that it does work.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
Good thing bodybuilding is done in gyms and kitchens and not a freaking laboratory.
References might impress people in your biology class but in the real world where results matter you need to check the DC scoreboard lol.
I guess all those top amateurs and handful of pros that DC train must be experiencing a placebo effect. [/quote]
Maybe they don’t have gyms and kitchens in Greece?
Guys like this kill me.
I’m ALMOST to the point where “studies show” are the magic I stop listening words.
What are all the big guys who live their lives in utter defiance of all these studies supposed to do? Look in the mirror and talk themselves into believing they’re not really seeing all that muscle because “studies show”?
Lol, a study?
ROFL. This world is very sad, I wonder how huge this guy is…
i bet you all beleve in scientology shit right ?
keep mocking 20 year research wont make you cool or smart , is just make you ignorant.
no im not a fun of sqauts will hurt your knee , and obviously i do beleve that the best way to increase muscles is by weight lifting.
what you guys howerver dont understand , is that stength and hypertrophy are two seperate things.
Dave tate which obviously knows much about strength have stated that strength for the bodybuilder comes as a by product , so does mass for the powerlifter.
sarcoplasmatic hypetrophy is your aim , and this occurs with high volume training.
that means 8-12 reps at a 301 tempo usually as the main training program heavier days or light would occur obviously but rather as change.
Also each muscle should be given adequate amounts of rest and as scietific research shows this is around 4-5 days for upper body.
So high frequency fails as well
thank god there scientific research for all those years , so actually some guys have gains.
of course if you still like to mocking countries rather than read facts , u.s is the country which devine design came right ?
closing , if you want to beleve that by doing one set of an exercise will make you big be my guest.
But wait it sais here 3-4 warm up sets for every body part everytime , what a joke
[quote]topoulo wrote:
Dave tate which obviously knows much about strength have stated that strength for the bodybuilder comes as a by product , so does mass for the powerlifter.
[/quote]
This would indicated that strength and hypertrophy are NOT separate entities, they are just specialized. DC advocates getting stronger in a bodybuilding sense. Tons of guys have gotten huger on his programs. So what are you really arguing here?
And what the hell does scientology have to do with anything?
[quote]topoulo wrote:
i bet you all beleve in scientology shit right ?
keep mocking 20 year research wont make you cool or smart , is just make you ignorant.
no im not a fun of sqauts will hurt your knee , and obviously i do beleve that the best way to increase muscles is by weight lifting.
what you guys howerver dont understand , is that stength and hypertrophy are two seperate things.
Dave tate which obviously knows much about strength have stated that strength for the bodybuilder comes as a by product , so does mass for the powerlifter.
sarcoplasmatic hypetrophy is your aim , and this occurs with high volume training.
that means 8-12 reps at a 301 tempo usually as the main training program heavier days or light would occur obviously but rather as change.
Also each muscle should be given adequate amounts of rest and as scietific research shows this is around 4-5 days for upper body.
So high frequency fails as well
thank god there scientific research for all those years , so actually some guys have gains.
of course if you still like to mocking countries rather than read facts , u.s is the country which devine design came right ?
closing , if you want to beleve that by doing one set of an exercise will make you big be my guest.
But wait it sais here 3-4 warm up sets for every body part everytime , what a joke[/quote]
I love how you completely contradict yourself. If thing B comes about as a BYPRODUCT of thing A then they are not completely different things. In fact, they are by definition related and increasing strength will inherently increase size.
Where’d you get the idea that DC requires warm up sets everytime? It is totally your own discression. He says himself that he doesn’t always warm up everything. I don’t either, I need very minimal warm up for tri’s after I’ve done chest and shoulders. I really don’t know why are you arguing against a program that you clearly no very little about. Again I want to know how big you are with all your decided knowledge.
[quote]topoulo wrote:
i bet you all beleve in scientology shit right ?
keep mocking 20 year research wont make you cool or smart , is just make you ignorant.
no im not a fun of sqauts will hurt your knee , and obviously i do beleve that the best way to increase muscles is by weight lifting.
what you guys howerver dont understand , is that stength and hypertrophy are two seperate things.
Dave tate which obviously knows much about strength have stated that strength for the bodybuilder comes as a by product , so does mass for the powerlifter.
sarcoplasmatic hypetrophy is your aim , and this occurs with high volume training.
that means 8-12 reps at a 301 tempo usually as the main training program heavier days or light would occur obviously but rather as change.
Also each muscle should be given adequate amounts of rest and as scietific research shows this is around 4-5 days for upper body.
So high frequency fails as well
thank god there scientific research for all those years , so actually some guys have gains.
of course if you still like to mocking countries rather than read facts , u.s is the country which devine design came right ?
closing , if you want to beleve that by doing one set of an exercise will make you big be my guest.
But wait it sais here 3-4 warm up sets for every body part everytime , what a joke[/quote]
A person who is unmoved by empirical evidence cannot be meaningfully debated with.
Keep on readin chief, that’s the ticket.
This post represents everything that is wrong with the bodybuilding community nowadays.
[quote]topoulo wrote:
i bet you all beleve in scientology shit right ?
[/quote]
Completely irrelevant. Attempting to change topic and throw random insult.
As does ignoring 50+ years of actual real world research in the gyms around the world as to what builds muscle. My favorite definition of science is “observing the world around you, coming up with hypothesis based on these observations and testing them”.
So, from that definition, bodybuilders have been scientifically testing their methods (on themselves) for the greater part of a century now. No amount of skinny people in lab coats doing 12 week studies on untrained individuals is going to outweight that amount of research and testing.
The sport of bodybuilding is the single largest and most conclusive research study ever done on what builds muscle.
Good, by far your best comment in this whole post.
You keep telling yourself that buddy.
And doesn’t this somewhat contradict your last statement? You admit that weight lifting is the best way to increase muscle. But why? Why is weight lifting the best way? The answer is because you need to continually expose your muscles to greater loads (heavier weight) in order to get them to grow.
So, you need to get stronger to get bigger. Wow, look at that, they’re not two separate things after all. Who would’ve guessed.
Which once again proves that the two are related.
First, bodybuilders aim is maximal hypertrophy. That means a combination of myofibril and sarcoplasmic hypertrophy.
Second, those rep ranges and tempo are way too overgeneralized. You’re basically suggesting that all people are carbon copies of each other. This also ignores huge amounts of empirical evidence. Lots of guys have gotten bigger using lower reps, and different tempos, and others have used higher reps and different tempos.
Once again ignoring individual differences in terms of lifestyle, nutrition, recovery abilities, experience levels, etc…
LOL. Yeah, as opposed to all those small Mr. Olympia guys who built their bodies before these scientific studies. Man, if only they had the scientific research to draw from maybe they’d have build some muscle. 
“Facts” is a pretty big stretch. How about looking in your local gym and seeing with your own two eyes some walking breathing facts. How about looking at some professional (natural or enhanced) BB’ers and asking yourself whether or not these so called “facts” really hold up in the real world?
[quote]
closing , if you want to beleve that by doing one set of an exercise will make you big be my guest.
But wait it sais here 3-4 warm up sets for every body part everytime , what a joke[/quote]
You still seem to fail to understand what a “warm-up” set means, and no, you don’t do 3-4 warm-ups for every body part every time.
I’ll take countless real world flesh and blood examples of people who have had success with something over years of time over some statistical data gathered in a lab somewhere during a 12 week study.
You can do whatever you want. My guess though is that in 10 years (or hopefully less), you’ll realize that you’ve been citing the wrong source of information and wish that you would have listened to what we were trying to tell you.
If you think that none of us have ever read these studies, or know nothing about what the “scientific” community says about muscle building you’re kidding yourself. It’s just that we also aren’t blinded by it, and have realized what actually works in the real world is more important. Hopefully you’ll do the same some day.
I really can’t believe I’m responding to you again…
[quote]topoulo wrote:
i bet you all beleve in scientology shit right ?
[/quote]
That’s a little off topic don’t you think? lol
Somehow completely bypassing the fact that this training has worked wonders for many(and the principles behind it even more) screams of ignorance here man.
Yes you can gain strength without gaining size, and you sometimes can get bigger withotu getting stronger. BUT the biggest guys on the planet(your top pro bodybuilders, WSM competitors, SHW powerlifters, sumo wrestlers what have you) are really strong. Does that confuse you somehow? If you go from benching 135x10 to 405x10 over 5 years and eat your way up 75 lbs do you somehow think you won’t have a massively larger chest? Forget tempo and number of sets and frequency, would it be bigger?
Dave Tate built a massive physique training powerlifter for 20+ years, how are you ignoring that? If you look at the muscularity of bodybuilders vs powerlifters on an amatuer level(local gym rats) the powerlifters DWARF the bodybuilders as a group. Why? They always train to get stronger and most understand the role of eating to fill out a weight class. If this principles of getting really strong and eating your way up to new sizes is lost on you I really fear what your other training opinions are.
I’ll take nice dense muscle that comes from powerbuilding heavy iron for years thank you.
What do you think we do in DC? I am seriously asking this because you don’t seem to understand. a 11-20RP set would likely need to be, 7-12 reps lol. And we control the negative(for some exercises probably 3 seconds) and have an explosive raising phase.
Here’s the question for you and I want you to answer this or don’t bother posting in this thread again. Assuming someone trains several sets 8-12 reps at a 301 tempo with 225 lbs on the bench press, 315 on the squat and 365 on the dead. They are currently 190 lbs in reasonable shape at 5’10. What would YOU do to make them 275 lbs in the quickest way possible?
Did this scientific research happen to test low volume RPing maniacs who extreme stretched and inhaled protein? And again… do you know how DCers train? The average 2 way split person will train muscles every 3-4 days, the more advanced trainees will hit them every 4-5 days. It’s highER frequency but it’s not that high. Your posts reek of not even understanding what you jumped into.
The number one thing in DC is recovery so you can train again(progress) over and over, you failing to understand this shows you just read about it in Flex and made your judgments.
Is this scientific community that egotistical? lol Ever seen Ronnie Coleman talk? Does the guy(or most big guys) seem like he poured over Pubmed late at night figuring out what the latest research said? No the guy trained heavy as often as he could(eek bodyparts 2x week) and became a freakin mountain. I’m sure you could school people on what studies have shown works best for hypertrophy but if they dwarf you by 50+ lbs of LBM mass maybe you should put the books down and pick up a steak and get strong.
[quote]
closing , if you want to beleve that by doing one set of an exercise will make you big be my guest.
But wait it sais here 3-4 warm up sets for every body part everytime , what a joke[/quote]
Please find a serious DC trainer and watch him train. Tell me 1 work(you keep glossing over this) set isn’t enough. If it isn’t enough for you then guess what? You aren’t the badass trainer most people fancy themselves to be.
People just have to put DC under some sort of umbrella, low volume high volume high frequency etc etc. Just take it as face value of what it is, 1(sometimes 2) work sets after progressive warmups. If it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy to call that 3-6 sets go ahead.
Do me a favor as well when you are doing more research, find me a study on advanced bodybuilders and what it requires to turn them into a 4 lbs/inch tank. I’ll be waiting… lol
Anyhoo, talking about DoggCrapp. I’d like to expand on LiveFromThe781’s small gripe (slightly edited below).
Some of Dante’s posts are really inspirational and piqued my interest in DC. Things about saying screw your genetics, and not being a spaz with switching training programs, and one in particular about being embarassed that you’ve been lifting for X years and no one can tell when you put your t-shirt back on.
Plus, there’s a really great post by (I think his name was) gollum saying that he started at a real soft 180 and now has abs and serratus showing at forty pounds heavier from training DC.
My point is, there’s sometimes a disconnect between the audience being addressed and the product. Do you really think someone advanced, ready for DC, is going to disappear in a t-shirt? Is he going to say “I’ve honestly assessed myself and feel that I’m advanced enough in my lifting to train DC, even though nobody I know or meet can tell I lift”?
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
…
My only beef is that youre expected to be some jedi knight before you can ever try it. theres other programs which require you to go to failure every set and then push more.
…
I really dont think you need to train 3 years before you do it. i think if you can really push yourself to failure then you can push yourself to failure,i dont see why you can ONLY know how to do that after 3 years. anyway, i think if you can seriously gauge yourself you know whether or not youre cut out for it.
…[/quote]
Keep in mind Gollum was 5’5 and had been away from training for some time…
The advanced part comes from Dante not wanting to deal with typical teenagers and other over analyzers who question and tweak to their hearts desire, don’t know how to eat or understand their body when it’s telling them something etc. Hopefully by training for 3+ years someone has put on some muscle themselves, figured out the role eating and training intense and heavy have in their success and are able to listen to DC’s demands.
You take a person who just started training 5 months ago and ask them to pound down 400 grams of protein and do fasted cardio 3 days a week on top of hardcore RP training and it’s just not going to happen for the most part you know?
Live can get pissed at me(again lol) if he wants, but when he brought up DC training he was attempting to tweak it, trained at a home gym, and acted like the typical young guy does and that’s why he was told not to DC train. A young guy that comes with the right attitude and has done his homework is going to be given the go ahead to try this out by me at least.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
Live can get pissed at me(again lol) if he wants, but when he brought up DC training he was attempting to tweak it, trained at a home gym, and acted like the typical young guy does and that’s why he was told not to DC train. A young guy that comes with the right attitude and has done his homework is going to be given the go ahead to try this out by me at least. [/quote]
Glad to hear this. Because I plan to begin training DC in 11 weeks. Currently, I am running Westside for Skinny Bastards III and I am not technically a “young guy” at 26, but I am farily newbish with only 14 months of training under my belt. I have been researching DC for a couple of months now and plan to continue doing so for the next 11 weeks until I am ready to run it (1.5 yrs in). This is the split I have been toying with and Scott, if you have time, I’d appreciate any input that you might have.
Hammer Strength Press (11-15rp)
Military Press (11-20 rp)
Close-Grip (11-20rp)
Front Pulldowns (11-15rp)
Deads (6-9ss + 9-12ss)
DB Curls (11-20rp)
Hammer Curls (10-20ss)
Seated Calf (10-12)
Leg Curls (15-30rp(
Squats (6-10ss) 3 min rest (20 rep set)
Incline Smythe Press (11-15rp)
Hammer Strenth Shoulder (11-15rp)
Skull Crushers (15-rp)
Chins (11-20rp)
T-Bars (10-12ss)
Preacher Curls (11-20 rp)
Reverse Curls (10-20ss)
Calf Machine (10-12ss)
Leg Curl (15-30rp)
Squats (6-10ss) 3 min rest (20 rep set)
Also, I have a question about the Extreme Stretches. I have found pictures on IM that show the stretches themselves, but haven’t found anything on exactly how they are to be done. Thanks to Scott and anyone else who might be able to help with any of this,
Guerillazen I do have some thoughts on this but amout of time to respond so maybe Sentoguy can answer your questions, otherwise I will be back late tonight to respond.