To any raw competitor who think the gear does it all for you…put it on and prepare to be humbled. Hoff is strong w/ or w/o gear.
[quote]gorillavanilla wrote:
StrengthDawg do you know that woman on your Avatar? I need to know that woman unless she is yours and I wouldn’t want to offend.[/quote]
I wish I knew. I stole this gif from a buddy on another forum I frequent.
I do think that gear is a viable portion of PL. I just wish judging was more strict. Judging is what hurts geared lifting in my opinion.
I also don’t care for how Hoff acts sometimes. He appears to be a douche at times.
[quote]Triceptaurus wrote:
If you REALLY want to see a mean raw, no gear, walked out, squat to full legal depth (hip crease below top of knee, I mean how hard can it be to see if that condition is met) then just look at the guys who do it all the time.
Ray Willams, Blaine Sumner and Michael Tuchscherer.
[/quote]
Using these 3 as examples for “perfect” (IPF) depth doesn’t exactly make you look good.
Troll mentions Hoff and this thread explodes with the gear vs raw thread… again. Hasn’t this been beaten to death in 100s of other treads?
[quote]Re.po wrote:
Troll mentions Hoff and this thread explodes with the gear vs raw thread… again. Hasn’t this been beaten to death in 100s of other treads? [/quote]
Maybe we could just sticky this one so that when everyone feels like reigniting the raw vs gear war, they can just come in here and rage.
This way all the other threads will be spared.
He wouldn’t be strong in a powerlifting sense because he would bomb out, due to inability to hit depth. His total was BS. This doesn’t make me think he’s “weak” or whatever, just that it’s not real. There are clear rules. In each lift, x condition must be met for lift to be good. It is extremely clear, those conditions were not met.
You don’t have to squat 1200 lbs to tell someone they can’t. You don’t have to be able to walk it out. The people who takes Barry Bonds drug tests can’t hit 500’ home runs. There are clear definitions. Hoff doesn’t meet them, thus his lifts are invalid.
Honestly I doubt he could total 1800 raw.
The whole argument about someone not being a high enough caliber lifter to question someone else is the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. I can’t squat 1200 lbs, and neither can he. He competes in powerlifting. Thus he had a standard to meet. He competes in the SPF, so his “hip crease” must be lower than the top of the knee. It isn’t, and thus his squats aren’t good. (Note the SPF is the only fed to actually use hip crease so if you are comparing definitions from other feds, something to keep in mind).
I have literally no idea what Hoff would total with hitting depth. Honestly he might hit the exact same numbers, or he might not be within 500 lbs. My intuition tells me that his squat isn’t even close to even the loose standards of the SPF for a reason, the bench was shaky but at least debatable and obviously a dead is probably the easiest to decide upon. When someone stuffs boards under their shirts, and then doesn’t even make some of their “record-breaking” lifts close enough to have a reasonable debate about, they deserve the scrutiny.
However, I’d also say he doesn’t train for raw, so I’m not going to freak out if his raw total is abnormally low. The 3005 wasn’t real though. Just because a judge says it’s real, doesn’t make it so. Everyone here knows what a squat is or isn’t. If you can look at that lift and say it’s good, then I think a) you aren’t being honest with yourself(you have skin in the game) b) you are in the wrong sport.
[quote]trivium wrote:
[quote]Re.po wrote:
Troll mentions Hoff and this thread explodes with the gear vs raw thread… again. Hasn’t this been beaten to death in 100s of other treads? [/quote]
Maybe we could just sticky this one so that when everyone feels like reigniting the raw vs gear war, they can just come in here and rage.
This way all the other threads will be spared.[/quote]
Yep and that’s a good name for it, sticky a new thread titled “raw vs gear war…” I’m sure it will have 10,000 posts in a week, mostly from the same people, however it would keep it separate from everything else.
Do you think that Dave Hoff could open a pickle jar without gear on?
I doubt it.
[quote]trivium wrote:
Do you think that Dave Hoff could open a pickle jar without gear on?
I doubt it.[/quote]
Does he have knee wraps under his arm pits?
How many years ago was that anyways?
[quote]deepsquats220 wrote:
He wouldn’t be strong in a powerlifting sense because he would bomb out, due to inability to hit depth. His total was BS. This doesn’t make me think he’s “weak” or whatever, just that it’s not real. There are clear rules. In each lift, x condition must be met for lift to be good. It is extremely clear, those conditions were not met.
You don’t have to squat 1200 lbs to tell someone they can’t. You don’t have to be able to walk it out. The people who takes Barry Bonds drug tests can’t hit 500’ home runs. There are clear definitions. Hoff doesn’t meet them, thus his lifts are invalid.
Honestly I doubt he could total 1800 raw.
The whole argument about someone not being a high enough caliber lifter to question someone else is the dumbest thing I’ve ever read.[/quote]
Some good comments in here. I don’t think anybody is particularly impressed with the judging on some of his bigger lifts. And he surely invites a lot of negativity stemming from the knee-wrap incident (which how many years ago?) and the way he acts at meets.
That being said, Dave has competed in multiple federations under a variety of judges. He hit (I believe) an 1102 squat and 950+ bench at the 2012 APF Senior Nationals. Both of those lifts were very clean from what I remember. Plenty of people bombed out at this meet and the fact that Louie didn’t attend gave it some credence that the “West Side crew” didn’t hamper the judging in anyway.
I think that criticism is healthy and I think everybody is entitled to their own opinion. That being said, you need to have SOME credibility to give a justifiable opinion on the matter. The keyboard warriors with absolutely no frame of reference wear on everybody’s (my) patience and do nothing but further divide the sport and cast negative overtones to it.
My gym runs 6-8 meets every year and I attend or work at most of them for free. Many times I’ll spot & load or help out in the warm up area. While there, I go out of my way to help out other lifters who are new or just need a hand. MANY other lifters do the same thing. And never once have I heard anyone bad mouth another lifter. It’s only the idiots on internet forums who usually have no meet experience let alone any base of strength.
[quote]frankjl wrote:
[quote]deepsquats220 wrote:
He wouldn’t be strong in a powerlifting sense because he would bomb out, due to inability to hit depth. His total was BS. This doesn’t make me think he’s “weak” or whatever, just that it’s not real. There are clear rules. In each lift, x condition must be met for lift to be good. It is extremely clear, those conditions were not met.
You don’t have to squat 1200 lbs to tell someone they can’t. You don’t have to be able to walk it out. The people who takes Barry Bonds drug tests can’t hit 500’ home runs. There are clear definitions. Hoff doesn’t meet them, thus his lifts are invalid.
Honestly I doubt he could total 1800 raw.
The whole argument about someone not being a high enough caliber lifter to question someone else is the dumbest thing I’ve ever read.[/quote]
Some good comments in here. I don’t think anybody is particularly impressed with the judging on some of his bigger lifts. And he surely invites a lot of negativity stemming from the knee-wrap incident (which how many years ago?) and the way he acts at meets.
That being said, Dave has competed in multiple federations under a variety of judges. He hit (I believe) an 1102 squat and 950+ bench at the 2012 APF Senior Nationals. Both of those lifts were very clean from what I remember. Plenty of people bombed out at this meet and the fact that Louie didn’t attend gave it some credence that the “West Side crew” didn’t hamper the judging in anyway.
I think that criticism is healthy and I think everybody is entitled to their own opinion. That being said, you need to have SOME credibility to give a justifiable opinion on the matter. The keyboard warriors with absolutely no frame of reference wear on everybody’s (my) patience and do nothing but further divide the sport and cast negative overtones to it.
My gym runs 6-8 meets every year and I attend or work at most of them for free. Many times I’ll spot & load or help out in the warm up area. While there, I go out of my way to help out other lifters who are new or just need a hand. MANY other lifters do the same thing. And never once have I heard anyone bad mouth another lifter. It’s only the idiots on internet forums who usually have no meet experience let alone any base of strength.[/quote]
Definitely cleaner than most of his lifts, though the squats still look high to me (not sky high like the rest of his big squats).
[quote]frankjl wrote:
[quote]deepsquats220 wrote:
He wouldn’t be strong in a powerlifting sense because he would bomb out, due to inability to hit depth. His total was BS. This doesn’t make me think he’s “weak” or whatever, just that it’s not real. There are clear rules. In each lift, x condition must be met for lift to be good. It is extremely clear, those conditions were not met.
You don’t have to squat 1200 lbs to tell someone they can’t. You don’t have to be able to walk it out. The people who takes Barry Bonds drug tests can’t hit 500’ home runs. There are clear definitions. Hoff doesn’t meet them, thus his lifts are invalid.
Honestly I doubt he could total 1800 raw.
The whole argument about someone not being a high enough caliber lifter to question someone else is the dumbest thing I’ve ever read.[/quote]
Some good comments in here. I don’t think anybody is particularly impressed with the judging on some of his bigger lifts. And he surely invites a lot of negativity stemming from the knee-wrap incident (which how many years ago?) and the way he acts at meets.
That being said, Dave has competed in multiple federations under a variety of judges. He hit (I believe) an 1102 squat and 950+ bench at the 2012 APF Senior Nationals. Both of those lifts were very clean from what I remember. Plenty of people bombed out at this meet and the fact that Louie didn’t attend gave it some credence that the “West Side crew” didn’t hamper the judging in anyway.
I think that criticism is healthy and I think everybody is entitled to their own opinion. That being said, you need to have SOME credibility to give a justifiable opinion on the matter. The keyboard warriors with absolutely no frame of reference wear on everybody’s (my) patience and do nothing but further divide the sport and cast negative overtones to it.
My gym runs 6-8 meets every year and I attend or work at most of them for free. Many times I’ll spot & load or help out in the warm up area. While there, I go out of my way to help out other lifters who are new or just need a hand. MANY other lifters do the same thing. And never once have I heard anyone bad mouth another lifter. It’s only the idiots on internet forums who usually have no meet experience let alone any base of strength.[/quote]
I agree with you, I guess the whole negativity side of powerlifting stems from people competing against each other, basically under different rules or interpretations/enforcement, which leads to people feeling threatened when they hear " so and so just got the best xx lift/total in yy class of all time."
I think one of the biggest problems with powerlifting is the negativity, and it is why as a sport it isn’t mainstream as is more of a tight group thing. However I can understand where a lot of the frustration comes from. In all other sports, the athletes compete under nearly the same conditions, yet in PL there is different weigh in policies/ definition of lifts/ favoritism to some lifters. Some of these occur in other pro sports( I’m sure people will throw out Lebron getting calls in the NBA) however it seems like there is a lot more consistency in other sports.
I guess I just wouldn’t call it bad mouthing. For instance, I still think Hoff is strong, I just don’t think he is right to claim his achievements that I don’t feel are justified. I guess that’s hating or disrespectful, but to be honest, I’d expect the same from others if I was the subject of discussion and had done the lifts. I look at the amount of his lifts being irrelevant- if someone squats 120 lbs vs his 1200 and they look the exact same, I feel the same way about them. I don’t understand the concept of giving people leeway based on the scope of their achievement.
[quote]frankjl wrote:
[quote]deepsquats220 wrote:
He wouldn’t be strong in a powerlifting sense because he would bomb out, due to inability to hit depth. His total was BS. This doesn’t make me think he’s “weak” or whatever, just that it’s not real. There are clear rules. In each lift, x condition must be met for lift to be good. It is extremely clear, those conditions were not met.
You don’t have to squat 1200 lbs to tell someone they can’t. You don’t have to be able to walk it out. The people who takes Barry Bonds drug tests can’t hit 500’ home runs. There are clear definitions. Hoff doesn’t meet them, thus his lifts are invalid.
Honestly I doubt he could total 1800 raw.
The whole argument about someone not being a high enough caliber lifter to question someone else is the dumbest thing I’ve ever read.[/quote]
Some good comments in here. I don’t think anybody is particularly impressed with the judging on some of his bigger lifts. And he surely invites a lot of negativity stemming from the knee-wrap incident (which how many years ago?) and the way he acts at meets.
That being said, Dave has competed in multiple federations under a variety of judges. He hit (I believe) an 1102 squat and 950+ bench at the 2012 APF Senior Nationals. Both of those lifts were very clean from what I remember. Plenty of people bombed out at this meet and the fact that Louie didn’t attend gave it some credence that the “West Side crew” didn’t hamper the judging in anyway.
I think that criticism is healthy and I think everybody is entitled to their own opinion. That being said, you need to have SOME credibility to give a justifiable opinion on the matter. The keyboard warriors with absolutely no frame of reference wear on everybody’s (my) patience and do nothing but further divide the sport and cast negative overtones to it.
My gym runs 6-8 meets every year and I attend or work at most of them for free. Many times I’ll spot & load or help out in the warm up area. While there, I go out of my way to help out other lifters who are new or just need a hand. MANY other lifters do the same thing. And never once have I heard anyone bad mouth another lifter. It’s only the idiots on internet forums who usually have no meet experience let alone any base of strength.[/quote]
So, what are your raw vs. gear numbers? =0)
I avoid the whole raw vs gear issue; as many have mentioned I consider them totally different types of powerlifting. What I rarely see is any T-members posting the difference between their raw and geared numbers…perhaps we don’t have many members that have competed both ways. I don’t have any experience with the modern gear, but FTR…
Gear: 1989 Inzer Champion w/knee wraps
Squat: 653 @ 215
Deadlift: 606 @ 215
Raw: no knee wraps
Squat: 585 @ 215
Deadlift: 573 @ 215
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
I avoid the whole raw vs gear issue; as many have mentioned I consider them totally different types of powerlifting. What I rarely see is any T-members posting the difference between their raw and geared numbers…perhaps we don’t have many members that have competed both ways. I don’t have any experience with the modern gear, but FTR…
Gear: 1989 Inzer Champion w/knee wraps
Squat: 653 @ 215
Deadlift: 606 @ 215
Raw: no knee wraps
Squat: 585 @ 215
Deadlift: 573 @ 215 [/quote]
Nice post.
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
Gear: 1989 Inzer Champion w/knee wraps
[/quote]
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
Gear: 1989 Inzer Champion w/knee wraps
[/quote]
[/quote]
From the day before back in the day.
That’s the year you born isn’t it youngster!
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
Gear: 1989 Inzer Champion w/knee wraps
[/quote]
[/quote]
From the day before back in the day.
That’s the year you born isn’t it youngster! [/quote]
I was 1 lol
I was watching this video thinking these guys look fast and all, but it seems like like their equipment is what is allowing them to go so fast.
How fast do you think they’d go if they were in bare feet or socks? I’ve never really skated, but I’m trying to figure out how fast I actually am compared to them in reality, you know, without equipment.