I have to agree, the dream deflates.
1 coach: fallow me you will gain 15 pounds in 3 months, well if you fallow me you will in 2, well fallow me in 2 u will gain 25…
You know the GOMAD, well many go that route.
You worked so you gained. If we forget what each letter represents there is something in that spelling.
[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Needless to say, that’s why you’ll hear every successful competitor talk about how their perspective changes after that very first diet.
S[/quote]
While I never competed or got to a true stage condition, my first serious cut with Shelby taught me exactly what you mean. Talk about eye-opening and soul-crushing. ha
[/quote]
What do you guys think contributes to this?
…or just simply that most people over estimate how much muscle they actually have?[/quote]
For me it was definitely the overestimation part. It’s really hard to go through hell and then not like the end product.
But you aren’t bad at all since you trained like a BBer. Before my 1st cut with Shelby I trained like a powerlifter with some half-assed assistance work thrown in. End result: decent PLing total, big legs, shitty upper body.
ps: After my next cut I might post a cool series of transformation pics on here.
Paulie, sorry for the slight derail, but I’d be really interested to see a log!
Keep up the good work, you look great.
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
ps: After my next cut I might post a cool series of transformation pics on here.[/quote]
cool man, sorry, I wasn’t trying to put you on the spot or anything, just fucking love looking at people’s transformation picks after they’ve worked with a coach!
[quote]furo wrote:
Paulie, sorry for the slight derail, but I’d be really interested to see a log!
Keep up the good work, you look great.[/quote]
appreciate ya, I may actually make one after my next deload when I start fresh.
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Needless to say, that’s why you’ll hear every successful competitor talk about how their perspective changes after that very first diet.
S[/quote]
While I never competed or got to a true stage condition, my first serious cut with Shelby taught me exactly what you mean. Talk about eye-opening and soul-crushing. ha
[/quote]
What do you guys think contributes to this?
…or just simply that most people over estimate how much muscle they actually have?[/quote]
For me it was definitely the overestimation part. It’s really hard to go through hell and then not like the end product.
But you aren’t bad at all since you trained like a BBer. Before my 1st cut with Shelby I trained like a powerlifter with some half-assed assistance work thrown in. End result: decent PLing total, big legs, shitty upper body.
ps: After my next cut I might post a cool series of transformation pics on here.[/quote]
I think there are a couple of things that factor in.
-Very few people REALLY know what single digit bodyfat looks like. I don’t mean “dude, this trainer at my gym hit me with the calipers, and I was 9.8575%!”, I mean “if they were to medically dissect my body and weigh out the fat tissue” or even hydrostatic weighing.
-Very few even lean people REALLY know what ‘contest winning level’ lean looks like (It’s not healthy, so don’t tell me about your buddy who walks around contest-ready all year long!)
-Because what is considered ‘lean’ by average people and non-competitors is not the same thing as an experienced competitor, you can be relatively lean, with a good amount of muscle and have a very different impression of your physique than what a contest coach would have from looking at you. The experienced coach would view your as having considerably LESS muscle than you would most likely think (and 99% of the time you’d be insulted from hearing this fact).
Generally, playing off of these issues, people do overestimate how much muscle they have. You’ll hear people project just how much they’d weigh if they were to ever cut down, but until it happens, I never put any faith in those #s. These are the same people who even though they may acknowledge that the human body can only put on so much LBM per month (there’s a genetic limit, no matter how much you eat), still like to throw out how much weight they’ve put on in the last few weeks/months/years.
Also, it’s just cooler feeling like the ‘big guy’, and when you’re peer group constantly reinforces how jacked you are (unless they’re all experienced competitors, and jerks besides), you don’t really want to (or are incapable of) accept that you’re carrying more “non-muscle” than you like to think.
S
[quote]ESX wrote:
First proper cut i did i got past the weight i thought i’d be and was like “i’m actually rather small”! Going from a big in shirts at 195 to less than 170 and old clothes hanging off you sucks![/quote]
x2
Making XL shirt look like a M > hawt abs
But dam having both is prefection.
[quote]Cron391 wrote:
[quote]ESX wrote:
First proper cut i did i got past the weight i thought i’d be and was like “i’m actually rather small”! Going from a big in shirts at 195 to less than 170 and old clothes hanging off you sucks![/quote]
x2
Making XL shirt look like a M > hawt abs
But dam having both is prefection.[/quote]
…and that takes time. I weigh about 250lbs right now. That took a shit load of time to reach without having a gut at all and having a flat stomach at my height.
Yes, getting super lean may be eye opening…especially if you expect to be there in a relatively short period of time unless you have genetics like Phil Heath and plan to start anabolics use relatively early.
The problem is, everyone thinks that every guy who might bulk up won’t ever diet down for some reason or get leaner.
In terms of competition I could see it being very important. I see it being relatively useless for the non-competitive bodybuilder other than periodic assessment.
[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Needless to say, that’s why you’ll hear every successful competitor talk about how their perspective changes after that very first diet.
S[/quote]
While I never competed or got to a true stage condition, my first serious cut with Shelby taught me exactly what you mean. Talk about eye-opening and soul-crushing. ha
[/quote]
What do you guys think contributes to this?
Even though I’m not very lean yet I’ve noticed over the close to 40lbs I’ve lost that I never look anywhere near how I thought I would at the beginning of the cut.
For instance assuming I’m around 18% bodyfat (give or take) my estimated LBM would be roughly 177ish lbs.
But it’s becoming very clear that if I were to diet down to contest condition I could definitely weigh under 177.
Is it a lost of muscle, or change of fluid retention (since water is technically LBM) or just simply that most people over estimate how much muscle they actually have?[/quote]
You don’t know what you would weigh…but yeah, you probably would. You had good size for your age. You just need to understand that the guys who actually do look lean over 200lbs are gorillas when not in contest shape. They are not the “kinda big” guys who weigh a smooth 240lbs. They are the guys who, if they are smooth, are sitting over 250-280lbs with the outline of abs showing.
Getting that kind of size takes a long time if you started out skinnier.
Apologies for the derail, but what was your MOS in the Army?
[quote]Legionary wrote:
Apologies for the derail, but what was your MOS in the Army?[/quote]
25R my dude. Visual Equipment Operator/Maintainer, but I did SatCom for Psyop.
You’re looking great Paulie. I remember when you first started cutting, and you’ve made a shit ton of progress since then.
Curious, what were/are some of your numbers on the ‘bigger’ lifts?
Good job Paulie. I’m impressed!
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
You’re looking great Paulie. I remember when you first started cutting, and you’ve made a shit ton of progress since then.
Curious, what were/are some of your numbers on the ‘bigger’ lifts? [/quote]
I’m just not that strong man ha.
everything I workout with is about bodyweight give or take 10-20lbs for sets of 10 (i weight 212-216.
this is for every compound lift pretty much, dumbbell bench press, lat pulldowns, squats of course there are movements where pounding heavy weight is not a problem, leg press/shrugs stuff like that but yeah man for the most part I’m just not nearly as strong as I look. I would also say I use a lot better control and form than most people. It’s a rarity that I look like I’m cheating on anything other than maybe some barbell curls.
I wonder if this is where my low testosterone levels come into play. not sure though getting some size wasn’t really a problem.
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Good job Paulie. I’m impressed![/quote]
thanks man, hopefully in 3-6 months I’ll be as lean as you and I can start focusing on strength and size again.
[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Good job Paulie. I’m impressed![/quote]
thanks man, hopefully in 3-6 months I’ll be as lean as you and I can start focusing on strength and size again.[/quote]
You’ll def get there man. I’m trying to get ripped right now, after the holidays at least.
[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:
Does having a coach help significantly? What were the biggest differences in your diet/training from having a coach vs. not?
[/quote]
The biggest advantage for me is that I had the fat guy perma bulk complex.
I spent a lot of time just making sure I got “bigger” at any cost. When you spend a lot of time doing this it’s hard to watch yourself shrink even though you know in the end you will look much better. Because at times it seems as though you are getting “smaller” without looking much better.
This is where a coach was important in my situation. Dealing with my hormones out of wack and a stressful life in the military there were times I wanted to lose it.
If I were doing this my self I probably would have rebounded or re-fed way too often, changed my strategy or given up without somebody to tell me to chill the fuck out and help to make adjustments for me.
I would definitely reccomend anyone cutting for their first time after a permabulk to get a coach.
EDIT: this video explains the mindset well for those of you that have gotten too heavy.
This is why ive recently contacted TheMightyStu to aid me with my cut starting very soon. I have spent almost 4 years gaining over 100lbs, and while i did it without getting as fat as you did (nothing meant by that at all) i still have a hard time cutting on my own and breaking the perma-bulk mindset. The biggest thing for me is second-guessing - Do i really know what im doing? Am i seeing the type of results i should be seeing? Am i losing fat or just getting smaller in general?
It will greatly ease my mind to be able to put my trust in someone who has proven beyond a doubt that they know how to get it done, and for me that is worth the investment.
[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
You look like shit. You really failed at this aesthetics thing you are trying to do.
What a waste of your time and energy.
[/quote]
haha thanks
EDIT: I’m not mad at this comment.
I get it man, I’m not an amazing looking guy. I still have a large amount of bodyfat and I’m continuing to lean down slowly over time.
I know I’ve mentioned aesthetics a lot and this is a relatively new concept to me. I spent most of my time building just trying to get massive and add size at any cost.
But now the goal is to look better over all.
and every year I will continue to look better and better. You’ll see these pictures over the years too.
by the way, not to be mean but where are your pics?[/quote]
Why are you even bothering giving this guy time of day? Id bet money he looks terrible, and even if he had pics that looked like yates, hes still way out of line. Hes another youngster543210, but doesnt even have a photoshopped pic. lol
POS
[quote]Cron391 wrote:
I haven’t read the entirety of this whole thread, but I think most would agree after you get to certain level of weights, you CANT do 2 major muscles groups in the same day. IMO after a major muscle group you should be pretty dam tired…
Awesome work though![/quote]
Ill definitely agree with this. My back and triceps day is so brutal i can barely walk out of the gym after, the thought of adding another major muscle group in there makes me sad.
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
You look like shit. You really failed at this aesthetics thing you are trying to do.
What a waste of your time and energy.
[/quote]
haha thanks
EDIT: I’m not mad at this comment.
I get it man, I’m not an amazing looking guy. I still have a large amount of bodyfat and I’m continuing to lean down slowly over time.
I know I’ve mentioned aesthetics a lot and this is a relatively new concept to me. I spent most of my time building just trying to get massive and add size at any cost.
But now the goal is to look better over all.
and every year I will continue to look better and better. You’ll see these pictures over the years too.
by the way, not to be mean but where are your pics?[/quote]
Why are you even bothering giving this guy time of day? Id bet money he looks terrible, and even if he had pics that looked like yates, hes still way out of line. Hes another youngster543210, but doesnt even have a photoshopped pic. lol
POS
[/quote]
Agreed.
I think he and Ryan all come from the same high school.