Good post.
People do what they like to do. Those who stimulate their intellect discussing or learning about bodybuilding details do so because they like discussing or learning about them. There’s a good chance they enjoy the discussion MORE than they enjoy the work of lifting.
Not sure why people care so much about it what other people do though.
Best of the Best of the Back
by Scott Abel | Tue, Sep 04, 2007
Dorian Yates had a big back, but he trained it wrong. You heard me, wrong. At least that’s what Scott Abel says. But you know something? After we read this article, Scott convinced us. We’re now doing it the Abel way.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
esk221 wrote:
…when these “professor’s” realize that NO they are not stem cell researchers curing cancer, .
Dante hates Prof X? just summarizing
This post though reminds me of a few people on these boards[/quote]
I didn’t even bother to read the OP’s rant, but is that a real quote? REALLY?
Stem cell =/= cancer research. Sorry…
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Best of the Best of the Back
by Scott Abel | Tue, Sep 04, 2007
Dorian Yates had a big back, but he trained it wrong. You heard me, wrong. At least that’s what Scott Abel says. But you know something? After we read this article, Scott convinced us. We’re now doing it the Abel way.[/quote]
I also love how every picture of a beefed up Abel I’ve seen in articles has a caption (photo from 2002/2004).
So, what the hell does he look like NOW?
I’m sure he still looks decent, but that always cracked me up.
[quote]Synthetickiller wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
esk221 wrote:
…when these “professor’s” realize that NO they are not stem cell researchers curing cancer, .
Dante hates Prof X? just summarizing
This post though reminds me of a few people on these boards
I didn’t even bother to read the OP’s rant, but is that a real quote? REALLY?
Stem cell =/= cancer research. Sorry…[/quote]
First off, kick yourself for reading that much into it.
Second, here’s the first hit from a google search of “stem cell cancer”:
Although realistically I am the loser for bothering to reply to this.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Skinless wrote:
It seems its hard to get people to just fucking get under the bar.
People worry about the most miniscule things.
“should I get 24 or 25 1/2 grams of protein post workout?”
“When I do flat dumbbell flys should I supinate my forearms to hit the deep muscle fast twitch fibers?”
Or some dumb shit like that.
Its easy. Keep is heavy and simple. EAT!.
I have doubts as to people like that even having what it takes to significantly change the way they look. Some people have it and some don’t. The guys sitting at home for two years reading articles before they ever actually start working out DO NOT have it.
I actually vote for kicking more of these types to the curb quickly so we can make time for people who will actually make others say, “damn” in 12 months.
If some guy is focused on whether that last set was 6 reps instead of 7 as opposed to whether the overall weight is going up, they should be kicked off the bus.
I personally am not one who believes everyone has it in them. The ones who do show it quickly. The rest will look basically the same next year and the year after that in spite of making hundreds of posts focused on shit that doesn’t really matter.[/quote]
No way in hell I’m gonna be this guy. Fuck, just no.
cheat curls are alright…but in my opinion…i know I’ll get burned for this but ronnie coleman’s technique ain’t the best for most guys.
I used to do quite a bit of body english in my BB rows and now I’ve stopped.
I squeeze at the top and stretch at the bottom and I never thought my back could be so sore in that area. Maybe for a burnout set to do some body english but I think for the most part the bent over rows help quite a bit more, in a more-so strict fashion.
Anwyays I’m ready for the torches lol.
[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
Best of the Best of the Back
by Scott Abel | Tue, Sep 04, 2007
Dorian Yates had a big back, but he trained it wrong. You heard me, wrong. At least that’s what Scott Abel says. But you know something? After we read this article, Scott convinced us. We’re now doing it the Abel way.
I also love how every picture of a beefed up Abel I’ve seen in articles has a caption (photo from 2002/2004).
So, what the hell does he look like NOW?
I’m sure he still looks decent, but that always cracked me up.[/quote]
He looks better now, in my opinion.
[quote]rasturai wrote:
cheat curls are alright…but in my opinion…i know I’ll get burned for this but ronnie coleman’s technique ain’t the best for most guys.
I used to do quite a bit of body english in my BB rows and now I’ve stopped.
I squeeze at the top and stretch at the bottom and I never thought my back could be so sore in that area. Maybe for a burnout set to do some body english but I think for the most part the bent over rows help quite a bit more, in a more-so strict fashion.
Anwyays I’m ready for the torches lol.[/quote]
I think most people think Ronnie just jerks the weight around aimlessly. He doesn’t. He gets a stretch at the bottom, and he fully contracts his back every rep.
I would do what works for you, but I kind of doubt you used the same form as Ron.
And…As far as the OCD thing…I definitely fell into that category for awhile until I started worrying about what really mattered…reading posts by Dante definitely helped me realize that…
Man, I wish people in this world didn’t throw around OCD as lightly as they do. I see so many people claim (like my roommate for example), that they are obsessive-compulsive because they like to be clean or tidy. It’s like me complaining about being paraplegic with a torn ACL to a guy with no legs.
In regards to bodybuilding, the people that truly suffer from OCD probably suffer with a lot of other aspects in life. I agree with most over complicating things, but to say “toss them out for the others more capable” sounds a little messed up.
I suffer from OCD somewhat severely, (not Howard Hughes status, but close to it) and it bodybuilding and athletics for that matter have always been harder than someone without disability. That’s not to say were are incapable, in fact some of the best athletes in the world have struggled with terrible, REAL OCD. IMO it can be a gift as well as a curse, I personally have worked hard on harnessing it so that it doesn’t completely ruin me.
I made some of my best gains bodybuilding-wise when I just had someone standing over me, or telling me what to do.
Just my little insight to the matter.
[quote]Droogan Leader wrote:
Man, I wish people in this world didn’t throw around OCD as lightly as they do. I see so many people claim (like my roommate for example), that they are obsessive-compulsive because they like to be clean or tidy. It’s like me complaining about being paraplegic with a torn ACL to a guy with no legs.
In regards to bodybuilding, the people that truly suffer from OCD probably suffer with a lot of other aspects in life. I agree with most over complicating things, but to say “toss them out for the others more capable” sounds a little messed up.
I suffer from OCD somewhat severely, (not Howard Hughes status, but close to it) and it bodybuilding and athletics for that matter have always been harder than someone without disability. That’s not to say were are incapable, in fact some of the best athletes in the world have struggled with terrible, REAL OCD. IMO it can be a gift as well as a curse, I personally have worked hard on harnessing it so that it doesn’t completely ruin me.
I made some of my best gains bodybuilding-wise when I just had someone standing over me, or telling me what to do.
Just my little insight to the matter.[/quote]
Most definitely. I was diagnosed with OCD 3 years ago. It CAN be a curse, but in its stupid, annoying little ways, it CAN be helpful.
I truly do hate it when people say “well everybody has some form of OCD” and I’m like “no”. Unless you’re diagnosed with it, or suffer from SEVERAL aspects of life because of it, you truly don’t have OCD if you keep your room clean or wash your hands frequently.
I don’t think this thread was about people with the actual clinical form of OCD.
I obsess and I admit it. I’m an engineer; its what we do.
The notion of “just work hard and be consistent” is anything but intuitive because in everything else I do it doesn’t matter how hard you do it if you’re doing it wrong. There’s usually only one right way to do it, too, not a brazillion ways that will all work to varying degrees as long as you’re busting your ass.
So, I try to optimize. But I also try to find out if I have big misunderstandings that would make everyone agree that I’m doing it wrong or suboptimally. I’m still learning what’s important and what’s not.
And yeah, articles on here seriously mess with your head until you learn the concepts with which they were written and don’t just assume if you’re not doing this one exercise in a certian program that your tri’s won’t get any bigger.
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
I don’t think this thread was about people with the actual clinical form of OCD.[/quote]
Way to spoil their fun.
[quote]nschneid wrote:
And yeah, articles on here seriously mess with your head until you learn the concepts with which they were written and don’t just assume if you’re not doing this one exercise in a certian program that your tri’s won’t get any bigger.[/quote]
The articles mess with you if you haven’t made good progress already are looking for a magic bullet.
The best thing a confused newbie can do is stop reading 2000 articles and confusing his or her self.
Enough said:
[quote]nschneid wrote:
I obsess and I admit it. I’m an engineer; its what we do.
.[/quote]
Dante was an engineer as well, worked out for him.
I think the best thing a beginner can do is read Starting Strength and Practical Programming. Then, they will have a thorough understanding of how change occurs etc… and they can ignore all the rubbish to the contrary.
Also they will understand what defines a beginner, intermediate, advanced, and know how to stick a routine in one of those pigeonholes and not obsess over the minutia of advanced details but instead focus on the basics for a few YEARS until they can’t progress anymore on those.
Sadly I also think there are a lot of people - a high % of the population - who don’t put on muscle real fast and are a bit lost and maybe obsessed with looking for the secret. It is probably something real simple, like EATING. or SLEEPING. or, LIFTING HEAVIER WEIGHTS. But it eludes them. Go into any gym, and you see a whole bunch of people without a clue. And some of them work there. So what the heck gives? Is it any wonder they have OCD and are searching for the answer?
Also I wonder what % of people don’t know the answer because they don’t want to know the answer: that it takes YEARS, a lot of food, a lot of pain, a lot of effort, a lot of discipline.
Very wise words.
I have been quilty of the described behaviour as well - looking for the next secret supplement or training method to finally get me growing. However, it started after I had been training consistently for a few years with little results. Whereas I still do study the art of muscle and strength building, it’s out of professional or scientific interest. I think I learned everything there really is to know about muscle building some years ago and have merely been applying the knowledge since.
All it truly takes is the “basic knowledge” and time.
I do want to point out though that people always tend to go to extremes - either too scientific and of little importance or “JUST LIFT AND EAT, don’t waste time asking questions” type of thing. I think the truth lies in the middle. What I call basic information about bodybuilding does definitely take some thought and time to learn to apply. If you’re a natural trainee, you will have to know quite well what sort of training and nutrition will make you grow, whereas steroid-enhanced athletes can grow while making mistakes in many areas of training and nutrition.
So what I’m trying to say is, the best recipe for success is to look for the right information fast and start applying it fast. Neither alone works well. For bodybuilding, I’d probably recommend reading Max-OT rather than Starting Strength, even though it is a great book.
[quote]Tero_Physio wrote:
Very wise words.
I have been quilty of the described behaviour as well - looking for the next secret supplement or training method to finally get me growing. However, it started after I had been training consistently for a few years with little results. Whereas I still do study the art of muscle and strength building, it’s out of professional or scientific interest. I think I learned everything there really is to know about muscle building some years ago and have merely been applying the knowledge since.
All it truly takes is the “basic knowledge” and time.
I do want to point out though that people always tend to go to extremes - either too scientific and of little importance or “JUST LIFT AND EAT, don’t waste time asking questions” type of thing. I think the truth lies in the middle. What I call basic information about bodybuilding does definitely take some thought and time to learn to apply. If you’re a natural trainee, you will have to know quite well what sort of training and nutrition will make you grow, whereas steroid-enhanced athletes can grow while making mistakes in many areas of training and nutrition.
So what I’m trying to say is, the best recipe for success is to look for the right information fast and start applying it fast. Neither alone works well. For bodybuilding, I’d probably recommend reading Max-OT rather than Starting Strength, even though it is a great book.[/quote]
More wise words, really - Especially about MAX-OT.
But I can’t agree more about your point concerning bodybuilding information. So many want to know everything, and so many are unwavering in their thoughts and ideas without any real knowledge on the subject. As far as I’m concerned, if someone really wanted to gather good starting information for physique changes, they ought to invest in a physiology book, or something like that. It obviously wouldn’t have to be of academic standards, but I think once you start to learn how the body actually WORKS you can then determine why you’re actually doing something, instead of “Someone told me to.”
My issue comes with nutrition. Maybe I’m being a hypocrite to my own previous point, but I think people break down food issues WAY too much. “What kind of percentages of waxy maize should I mix with my proteins 37 minutes after I digest my creatine and glutamine?” etc etc etc. All the insane shit you see over on the S&N forum. For God’s sakes, why are people so worried about the most minute details when it comes to diet? Just watch your body - it’s really not that difficult.