Cut and Then Bulk?

Training Beginners
21

[quote]serge1188 wrote:
ok thanks a lot guys, so i will try to bulk up as best i can before deciding to cut. THe thing is my stats r misleading, thought iam 155, i look around 170 , my legs r really skinny. My quads r much thinner than normal so my upper body doesnt look like a twig and has some definition.

DO you guy recommend taking creatine monohydrate while i try to bulk up?[/quote]

S,

At your age, height and weight like the other’s have mentioned you need to focus first on increasing the muscle mass and strenght.

What is your current diet? Do you know how much protein you consume on a day to day basis? I ask you this question because as much as you are young and you have the highest amount of natural test you will have in your life, if you are gaining “fat” while increasing your weight there has to be something wrong with either your macronutrient ratios or the timing of your meals.

Diet has been covered extensively here before but if you want just look up Berardi’s 10 principles and stick to that until you figure out your baseline maintenance cals. Also take the time to know how much protein you are ingesting every day. This information is so valuable for physique transformation goals that I don’t think it gets stressed enough.

As far as supplementation It will depend on your budget and how fast you want the muscle. However at your age, with the commitments, education and partying that you will do it is better to take a sensible approach. Just get a good protein supplement and save the rest of your (or your parent’s) money to go out with some hot girls.

For training It is so individual that I can not even start to comment. WS4SB is a good program and you should look into it, however since you mention that your legs are seriously lacking I would look into a more traditional 4 day split working out 3 days a week and adding some light cardio 2 extra days.

For training choose some compounds (give some priority to your legs and back) and just try to work out for 1 hour to 1 hour and a half (not counting warm up). The cardio can be anything you like and you don’t need to actually do it in the gym. Now that the summer is approaching go out and have some fun.

I hope this helps

22

My diet… well iam in college so here it goes:

This is based on yesterday:

breakfast -eggs, pancakes, french toast, chocolate milk - i would say about 600 calories.

Meal 2- 2 pieces of chicken breast, salad, chili, beef casarole, apple- 750 calories id say

Meal 3- Chicken terryaki, white rice -= about 600 calories

Meal 4- tuna salad on a sub- 600 calories

Meal 5- chicken wrap- 500

so about 3050 calories

and my current lifting is mon- chest, tues- bi n tri, wed- back, thurs- chest, fri- pushups, cardio, sat- sometimes legs

23

[quote]serge1188 wrote:
My diet… well iam in college so here it goes:

This is based on yesterday:

breakfast -eggs, pancakes, french toast, chocolate milk - i would say about 600 calories.

Meal 2- 2 pieces of chicken breast, salad, chili, beef casarole, apple- 750 calories id say

Meal 3- Chicken terryaki, white rice -= about 600 calories

Meal 4- tuna salad on a sub- 600 calories

Meal 5- chicken wrap- 500

so about 3050 calories

and my current lifting is mon- chest, tues- bi n tri, wed- back, thurs- chest, fri- pushups, cardio, sat- sometimes legs[/quote]

Scrap this workout for now because it clearly isn’t working for you. Do a search for Bill Starrs 5x5 workout and start doing something similar to that.

Westside for skinny bastards is a routine you can find on this site and would also be good for someone like you.

You need a workout that prioritizes building strength in major lifts especially lower body lifts like squats because that is your weak spot now.

Make and work towards a modest but substantial goal in improving your squat. Something like squat 315 in six months.

I can promise you that you will see more results in that six months than your previous 2.5 years regardless of whether you fully reach the goal or not.

One more thing. Eat More! If you really are eating 3000ish calories a day now bump it up to 3700 calories while you are pushing your new squat goal. At your age you might need even more but an extra 700 calories is a good start.

24

[quote]serge1188 wrote:
My diet… well iam in college so here it goes:

This is based on yesterday:

breakfast -eggs, pancakes, french toast, chocolate milk - i would say about 600 calories.

Meal 2- 2 pieces of chicken breast, salad, chili, beef casarole, apple- 750 calories id say

Meal 3- Chicken terryaki, white rice -= about 600 calories

Meal 4- tuna salad on a sub- 600 calories

Meal 5- chicken wrap- 500

so about 3050 calories

and my current lifting is mon- chest, tues- bi n tri, wed- back, thurs- chest, fri- pushups, cardio, sat- sometimes legs[/quote]

Too much guessing. Find out for sure exactly how much protein, carbs and fats you’re eating. Do some homework, man. No one’s gonna give you muscles. Eat 230 grams protein a day, 300 grams carbs and 80 grams healthy fat.

As for your workout… what can I say? What’s your set/rep scheme? What weight you throwing around? What exercises? I bet all of these suck. I’m gonna hook you up kid. Read these two articles. Learn them.

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=811783

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1474118

Thank me later. Eat and lift now.

25

Bulk man…unless you wanna look like Jack from “Nightmare before Christmas”. Im currently bulking and I started about 6 months ago at 165…Im up to 193 and still counting…Ive gained a belly and people do look at only the fat but who cares…

just make sure you do one thing…Carry food with you ALWAYS. That was the diffrence between the last time I tried to bulk and had little success. Everyone here is Giving you the right advice…just follow it and you will be Golden…thats what I did =).

26

thanks guys, i will do that … c what the summer brings me =D

As for my workouts:

chest day i do 5 for 5( 5 reps 5 sets) of flat bench at 195 lbs
incline- 135 8 x 3
decline 175 8 x 3
flys/dips… etc

shoulder press db- 65s

pull downs- 180
rows- 180

biceps rope curl- 100 with the easier wheely system, and 150 tricep pull down

as for legs… eh… well it is low since i never worked them out really but will do in the summer… but prob like 155? squat heh 210 pushthrew… etc

27

Eat, eat squat. You’ll hate it but learn to love it.

Trust me i was in same postition as you only worse. 5’6" and i was 130lbs. Started to bulk beginning of april im up to 142.

28

You’re doing a strength program. Nothing wrong with that, but it won’t get you large. If you want to get large, do sets of 12 reps. 12 - 20 sets per body part. If you can’t make it to 12 reps, set the weight down and rest five seconds and then try and finish the set.

As for legs… do you want to be taking your pants off in front of a girl, be all muscular up top and then BAM - chicken legs?

29

There’s no reason to go into a cutting phase unless you’re going into a bodybuilding contest. Avoid it as long as possible.

But not cutting doesn’t mean you’re trying to get fat as fuck. If you get your surplus of calories from good food and you work out smart then you shouldn’t get fat.

30

[quote]serge1188 wrote:
thanks guys, i will do that … c what the summer brings me =D

As for my workouts:

chest day i do 5 for 5( 5 reps 5 sets) of flat bench at 195 lbs
incline- 135 8 x 3
decline 175 8 x 3
flys/dips… etc

shoulder press db- 65s

pull downs- 180
rows- 180

biceps rope curl- 100 with the easier wheely system, and 150 tricep pull down

as for legs… eh… well it is low since i never worked them out really but will do in the summer… but prob like 155? squat heh 210 pushthrew… etc[/quote]

S,

For the diet part, you will have to do a little bit of homework. It is not easy and maybe a little bit boring, but it is important to know:

  1. How many grams of Protein am I really consuming

  2. How many grams of Fat is in the food I am putting in my mouth

My guess looking at the samples you gave in your meals for saturday is that there is close to baseline for protein (not above) and too many grams of fat.

Now there are many factors that go into setting your own type of diet. I understand where you are coming from since I also studied in and American University (UVA) and still remember those meal plans. Try to be creative and like I mentioned before just focus on eating clean with the counting of the proteins as the only mandatory requirement.

Once you have this down to a habbit (sic) then you can look into the fat or carbs to manipulate how much fat are you gaining. However since this is spring / summer why not go out and play touch football, go hiking, bike riding and do them not with the purpose of a “workout” but to enjoy it. See where that takes you.

As for workouts remember this suggestion “Big Muscles = Strong legs and back”. The other muscles are important and if your goal is to look good for the ladies it is ok to train them, but the main point is that many men make the mistake of training only the muscles that can be seen in the front and we sometimes don’t realize that women tend to look at you when you are not looking.

Guess what? that means the will be looking at your back more often than what you imagine. And with the summer approaching means shorts…you get my idea.

WS4SB, Full body workouts, Body part splits all work. It is just that YOU need to sit and come up with a plan and then we can review it together. Many guys here have given you nuggets of information, but why not be part of the action instead of a participant and devise your own plan of attack. How would you go into bringing those legs up to par with the rest of your physique?

As a suggestion here are 2 templates that have worked very well for me in the past. Note that I am no longer a teenager and I have been doing this for quite a long time.

Template 1 (some winters)
Mon
Whole Body
(cardio 12 min)

Tue
Calves
(cardio 12 min)

Wed
Whole Body
(cardio 12 min)

Thur
Calves
(cardio 12 min)

Fri
Whole Body
(cardio 12 min)

Sat
Grip and forearm Training
(cardio 12 min)

Sun
Swimming, stretching

Template 2 (summer at the beach)
Sunday
Upper Body (back focus)
(cardio 10 min)
(go to beach and have fun)

Mon
Lower Body (hip focus)
(cardio 12 min)

Tues
Go to beach (walking) watch women in bikini

Wed
Upper body (push focus)
(cardio 12 min)

Thur
Go out bike riding near boardwalk. Watch more women :wink:

Fri
Lower body (quad focus)

Sat
Grip

Calves done every day

This is the one I did last winter (a little more advanced)

Day 1
Legs

Day 2
Chest

Day 3
Back

Day 4
Arms & shoulders

Working 3 on 1 off 2 on 1 off
Cardio 10 min at end of each workout

You can use any of those templates and just focus on 1 exercise for the front of the legs, one for the back of the legs, one pushing one pulling and some for abs

Hope this clears things more for you!

J

31

[quote]kroby wrote:
You’re doing a strength program. Nothing wrong with that, but it won’t get you large. If you want to get large, do sets of 12 reps. 12 - 20 sets per body part. If you can’t make it to 12 reps, set the weight down and rest five seconds and then try and finish the set.

As for legs… do you want to be taking your pants off in front of a girl, be all muscular up top and then BAM - chicken legs?[/quote]

12 reps to gain size? i never herd this, from what i always herd was 12 reps per set = supposed cutting, and from my understanding that is just simply because you waste more energy so u burn more calories… So would 12 reps per set really do it?

My problem is iam skinny and have a fast metabolism. I was thinking of trying out the Ws4sb program, and trying to consume 3500+ calories with the proper nutrition sources. And yes, i will focus on legs and upperbody.

So… if the 12 reps is really the way to go… should i get rid of my chest 5by5 workout? I was hopin to bench press more, but if it wont help my muscles grow screw it.

Sawadeekrob,

Idk about that fully body workout, it seems like ill end up being in the gym for 3 hrs at a time, or i simply wont stimulate my muscles enough. But than again i never really tried it, and dont have more experience. What do u guys feel about this instead of the Ws4sb… cus i was thikning of attempting that over the summer, or maybe the HSS-100 program?

What do u guys feel should be more effective for someone like me. I was hopin to get to 170ish by end of summer, dont see much problem with that since my legs can easily add me weight if i start working them out.

Thanks
Serge

32

[quote]serge1188 wrote:
12 reps to gain size? i never herd this, from what i always herd was 12 reps per set = supposed cutting, and from my understanding that is just simply because you waste more energy so u burn more calories… So would 12 reps per set really do it? [/quote]

Yes. Overtaxing your muscles trigger more growth. With 10-12 reps, you’re flooding the area with blood, to boot.

[quote]My problem is iam skinny and have a fast metabolism. I was thinking of trying out the Ws4sb program, and trying to consume 3500+ calories with the proper nutrition sources. And yes, i will focus on legs and upperbody.

So… if the 12 reps is really the way to go… should i get rid of my chest 5by5 workout? I was hopin to bench press more, but if it wont help my muscles grow screw it.[/quote]

Why not do both? Do some flat bench with your 5x5. Then go to incline and do 5x12. Then do flys until you can’t move. Success.

[quote]Sawadeekrob,

Idk about that fully body workout, it seems like ill end up being in the gym for 3 hrs at a time, or i simply wont stimulate my muscles enough. But than again i never really tried it, and dont have more experience. What do u guys feel about this instead of the Ws4sb… cus i was thikning of attempting that over the summer, or maybe the HSS-100 program?

What do u guys feel should be more effective for someone like me. I was hopin to get to 170ish by end of summer, dont see much problem with that since my legs can easily add me weight if i start working them out.

Thanks
Serge[/quote]

I understand you want results fast. Don’t think this way. You can get to 170 by eating alone. I suggest you try a few different approaches. Try the full body routine for a month. If it works, keep going. If you’re not getting the results you want, try another program for a month. Keep trying programs. Keep logbooks for eating and training. Look back, crunch the numbers. Which program works the best?

This is the most important thing you can learn. You have to experiment. Your body won’t react like others’, so you can’t expect their training to yield you their results.