I know, I just say things way better
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It’s not magic at all because one can easily fail wit them if there is not the appropriate effort, lifestyle, and nutrition. Then there’s the genetic factor, which many like to bring up by saying that if one has ordinary genes, they will get better results with full body or upper-lower splits. Well, I say that if one has ordinary or subpar genes, they will likely get ordinary or unimpressive results with all routines!
You bring up some great points too.
This thread has been fantastic and the input from the people who regularly participate in it has been instrumental in my current training. Every time I see it’s been bumped it’s the first thing I look at.
If any of you want to have a look at my training log and give any criticisms or suggestions that would be appreciated.
Thanks to all involved.
@Yogi1 my hoop pal, your dog’s got tits (in a Scottish accent)
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What do y’all do to bring up your chest? Best isolation exercises, techniques, etc
As I’ve said a few times, I ditched ALL barbell bench pressing, both for incline and flat, and stuck to dumbbell presses, HS machines, cable crossover, and dumbbell flies.
So a workout would be:
Hammer Strength incline press
Incline cable or dumbbell fly
Flat dumbbell bench press
Dips
3 sets x 8-12 reps
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I know we’ve all had this debate before, but I’m glad that everyone’s mindset is pretty much mine. I don’t disagree that bodypart splits are better/worse than other splits; rather I very harshly disagreed with the absolute-rhetoric the other employed.
@BrickHead has posted multiple videos with Arash, and Arash himself has posted different videos on YouTube. The biggest theme I hear from Arash is this: It doesn’t ultimately matter what training style you adapt, but if you believe in it and attack it with intensity, you will get bigger and stronger (as long as your nutrition is on point). And that echoes @Yogi1 who said:
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@BrickHead gave some good advice concerning exercises and rep schemes. I’ve never had to bring up my chest, but the top two techniques I’ve learned from others is this: If your chest is lagging, your front delts typically are not. If this is the case, they are most likely taking over most of your chest movements. To get around this:
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Really squeeze your scapulae (shoulder blades) together and maybe arch your back a bit more during chest movements in order to help push your chest out further than your delts so that the chest is more likely to take most of the tension.
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Restricting your range of motion may help. When you get to lockout, most of the tension will move to your triceps and delts…so don’t lock out the movement. Conversely, your delts and triceps may take over in trying to create movement out of the hole (up from your chest)…so stop the weight an inch or two above your chest instead to help keep tension in the chest.
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That’s because there are so many other variables at play besides what their split is. See, this is what I always say is the problem with the people who write about training: they have to write about novel ideas, or call other people out as being wrong, or “less than optimal” or anything that is polarizing or shocking in some manner. There are countless trainers following abbreviated or even full body routines that aren’t pros as well, I’d even venture to say that there are much more of them.
I always acknowledged that I had been training for years before things magically started happening. Sure I trained hard, and I used whatever split the current “experts” were touting, BUT, my nutrition sucked, I was too concerned with what magical exercises or splits I should follow and not with how I actually performed each set in order to stimulate progress.
Sure we can argue that comparing ourselves to guys like Mr Olympia isn’t always a good idea, BUT, if you’re looking for the clues that success leaves behind, wouldn’t it be at least a somewhat decent idea to take a good, hard look at what the guys who have truly reached the top levels of development have done, instead of guys who look like a middle aged Dad who stays in shape? What’s the saying,… “If you aim for the moon, you might miss, but at least you’ll hit a star?”
S
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Am I the only one that thinks the split is one of the least important things in a total training program or at least entirely disproportionately focused on. Volume, intensity, exercise selection, consistency, not getting injured, just plan training hard, listening to your body, mind muscle connection and about a dozen other things add up to like 99.99% of training results. As long as you aren’t doing something stupid in your split, I really don’t think it matters.
I’m the engineering guy who used to spend inordinate amount of time trying to figure out the perfect split. Now you know what I do? I change it any time I get board with what I’m doing because changing to something new gives me a bump in motivation and that matters about 100 times more than the extremely small differences caused by the split itself.
I also want to mention anecdotally that, while I do not have in depth knowlege of him, Kai Green has been doing a good bit of full body training, and he’s as muscular as ever. While the full body workouts of his I’ve seen are insane and would probably kill mere mortals, one of the most muscular guys on the planet does incorporate at least some full body training sessions.
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I concur. Again, it’s people needing to imply that bodybuilders are all doing it wrong, and if you’ve not achieved your physique goals by now, that’s just what you need to hear to become a fan of who ever wrote what you’re reading.
You can’t teach dedication.
You can’t teach intensity.
You can’t teach desire.
Arash says it all the time: “Intensity makes physiques” Not splits, or the latest training articles/programs. Intensity and consistency.
S
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translated:
ma arse! Yer dug’s goat diddies
If you only had 3 days to train in the gym, wanted to follow a bodypart split, and trying to limit gym time to around 1 hour. What would it look like? How would you split it up?how many exercises per body part?
Most of the time I only have 3 days, some weeks I can get 4 and the split obviously works better, but on a 3 day there is always a session that I need to hit 2 parts, with the recent high volume approach I’m taking that session always takes a long time and feels like too much.
My plan is to split legs up between the 3 sessions, so it will be
chest/quads
back/hams
shoulders/calves
abs I train at least once a week in the gym and usually a bit at home on off days. Arms a alternate between training tris with chest, bis with back and then the next week I do a full arms tagged on to whatever session I feel I can give them the best effort, usually with shoulders or legs.
I think an hour is possible, if you keep the rest periods short and the intensity high. I personally would need to sacrifice volume and just ramp up intensity and weight. That being said, my split would look like:
- Superset Back with Chest (4 exercises for each, 3-4 work sets each)
- Legs (2-3 hams, 2-3 quads, 2 calves, 3-4 work sets each)
- Delts (3 exercises, 3-4 work sets each), superset Bis with Tris (3 exercises, 3-4 work sets each)
I did this exact split for a while (2-3 months) while I was travelling for work and my gym time was severely compromised. I did it like this: Monday = 1, Wednesday = 2, Friday = 3, repeat. This gave me enough time for my arms and shoulders to recover before doing back and chest again. I made a lot of progress with it because of the insane pumps.
Concerning abs, I have personally found that doing abs as a warm up keeps them in shape and then keeps my core tight during all my compound exercises. Abs are like any other muscle - if you train them with heavy weight, they will grow. If that’s the goal, go for it. For myself, I’d rather have a chiseled, tight midsection rather than a more bulbous, gorilla-like midsection.
But I’m just one dude.
I did a 3 day split when I had time constraints during grad school. I still wanted to come out looking like a bodybuilder, and despite the old school full body approach (which entailed some serious 2-3 hour workouts in case some people don’t realize), I knew that I would need to make the best use of my time.
So in trying to remember overlapping muscle groups, as well as make a good combination of compound work as well as some pre-exhaust for what I was hoping to target, I was able to maintain, if not make actual progress on a M/W/F split, of maybe 60-90 mins per session.
An example of using compounds and pre-exhaust with isolation for Chest and Delts could be:
-Incline Barbell presses (focus on chest, but also get some delts and tris)
-Flat DB flyes (or cables) / Flat DB Presses (superset to isolate pecs)
-DB Laterals / Abreviated ROM Military Presses (superset to isolate delts)
-Rear laterals facing down on incline bench
-Pushups (as finisher for chest and overall shoulder stability)
S
I tried this type of back training today and I have to say that I was probably the best back workout I’ve ever had. I also tried a few exercises I haven’t tried before
Pump: chest supported t-bar row(45+25lb plates for 2x12, 45 lb plate for 22)
Wide grip lat pulldowns 100x3x10
Destroy:
Chest supported t-bar rows(2 45s+25 lb plates for 3x6)
1 arm barbell rows 95x3x6-8
Stretch: meadows rows 3x12
Narrow, neutral lat pull downs 3x8
Pump: (1 giant drop set) BB shrugs 185x10, 135x15
Band pull aparts (band doubled over)x25, band pull aparts x 20
Finish up with biceps and I could barely move my arms I was so pumped
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@IronAndMetal thanks for the suggestions buddy, I did a similar routine before that had horizontal pushing superset with horizontal pull. Then another day was vertical push with vertical pull. Really enjoyed that, it was a 4 day routine but the last day was arms so this can be easily split.
I have pretty good abs to be fair, they are maybe chiseled gorilla crossbreed ones:grinning:
@The_Mighty_Stu thanks buddy, I’ve instinctively been pairing stuff together like you mentioned on the combined days. Paired chest with shoulders tonight and had a good session.
So just to clarify, post workout carbs aren’t “necessary” as long as you have pre and intra workout carbs? I’m guessing this is particularly true on a cut?
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That’s what I believe and have experienced. When I dieted for my show I did not have any intra-workout carbs for nearly six months. And towards the middle of it, on some days my only post-workout carbs were from one apple! I did not lose muscle. I had a good amount of carbs before every workout until the last four to six weeks. Like I’ve said a few times elsewhere, in that last phase of the prep, when everyday was low-carb, my only carbs for the day were either a cup of rice or an apple. And I did not lose muscle like that either, even though I did a lot of cardio also.
Keep in mind this is when already being near shredded, so I highly doubt some well-fed lean or fat guy is going to lose muscle simply from moving carbs around over the course of a day. Now, how you feel is totally different. If you feel good with carbs in you before or during a workout, you will likely perform better, and this makes a difference.
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Agreed here as well. The most important thing post workout is protein, protein synthesis post workout remains the same pretty much with or without carbs. There’s no rush to get carbs in post workout to replenish glycogen, as long as you have carbs before your next session, they’ll be there. During my prep now I consume all carbs within my first 3 meals before my workout to fuel up, post workout is all protein and fat for the last 2 meals. The next day I’ll have carbs starting with breakfast, and I’m fueled up by the time I hit the gym.
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