@BrickHead and @robstein thanks for all the great info yall have put in this thread. Really good source of info. I’ll definitely be seeing how all carbs pre workout works. I’m guessing you’d take Indigo-3G before breakfast and try to fit all your carbs and workout into the six hour window? Or just stick with taking it before I chug my Plazma?
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push/pull/legs
I take my Indigo-3G before my second meal, which is about 4-4.5 hours before my pre workout meal. Since the last time I had carbs was almost 24 hours ago, I know my insulin sensitivity will be good and I’ll be ready to make good use of my breakfast carbs, no way they’ll be stored as fat. My breakfast carbs are two slices of Ezekiel bread and veggies so already very low GI and won’t spike blood sugar. By meal 2 four hours later, I take Indigo-3G so the rest of my carb meals are covered.
On my re-feed days of 350g carbs (like today woohoo!) I have 2 doses of Indigo-3G throughout the day. So if you have no carbs post workout and you train later in the day, I think if you can cover a few meals with the Indigo, go for it.
If I trained early in the AM, I WOULD have carbs later in the day to fit my numbers in. I usually hit the gym around 4 every day, so I can fit my carbs in all pre training.
I’ve been doing a 3 day split, but on a 4 day week(M, W, F, Sat) to increase frequency a bit beyond once per week.
Back/calves- I figure ok to train biggest group(back) with smallest(calves)
Chest/Hams/Biceps
Delts/Quads/Triceps- biggest leg group with smallest upper body group
I do the leg work first for prioritization purposes.
What does everyone’s peri-workout nutrition look like? I like to eat a meal(chicken and rice for example) an hour or two prior. Then I’ll have intra workout(Vitargo and whey). Sometimes I’ll have BCAA post(although I think I’m wasting money on it because I don’t think I need it because I think my diet is pretty well-rounded). Then post workout meal(pasta and ground turkey or beef for example).
I believe it was lee Haney who first talked about eating for what you’re GOING to do instead of the post-workout nutrition obsession at the time. Jump ahead several years and you had people examine nutrient timing, and the effects of different approaches of pre/during/post nutrient on performance and recovery.
During a cut, the main goal for any physique athlete should be muscle retention. IMO what you do in the gym plays a big role in holding onto (if not still gaining) lbm. If you’re someone who truly feels a difference in your trainin when you’ve had a good bit of carbs pre-gym, then you should be focusing on that approach no question.
Post carbs won’t hurt you, but they don’t need to be the primary focus. If your body needs carbs and they’re not available (which is almost never for most people) it will make them anyway.
S
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@The_Mighty_Stu that makes a lot of sense. I’ve been waking up, drinking plazma, gym, then getting a shit ton of carbs the couple hours after training. I’ll try switching that around, getting most of my carbs pre workout then just getting a little bit post workout and see how it goes.
How do you feel about John berardis new article about IF? Getting all your food in an eight hour window? I’ve always thought of berardi as an authority on nutrition, but I know a lot of “in the trenches” guys that think IF is shit
Since I’m in Keto, I eat a high sodium meal and drink a ton of water prior to training. I find it helps me with feeling full and getting a pump.
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@The_Mighty_Stu, as always, is dead-on. Since you asked for examples of peri-workout nutrition, here’s mine:
1 hour or so before training: chicken and rice
15 minutes before training: pre-workout drink…usually contains some hydrolized casein, highly branched cyclic dextrin, and stimulants (if necessary)
During Training: conction with hydrolized casein, highly branched cyclic dextrin
Post Training I agree with Stu that carbs aren’t necessary…but if I’m trying to grow or gain, I eat them. Cream of wheat or quick-oats along with the protein shake. This is usually 30-60 minutes after training…I just wait until I’m hungry.
My question for those talking about a 3 day split is why you have to train the entire body in 3 days over the same week?
My current program, because of my school schedule, has me training the entire body over 8 days, in about 4 workouts.
why you have to train the entire body in 3 days over the same week?
Well, the typical reason to train the entire body over the course of ANY split is to progress proportionately. Of course, if your goal doesn’t involve proportions, then I suppose you don’t need to train the entire body.
Chris and Iron, thank you. I like to research others and get some ideas or confirmation.
I guess it comes down to desired frequency. If you’re training your whole body over 4 sessions in 8 days, that’s obviously less frequency than training your whole body over 3 sessions in 5 days(assuming no back to back days off).
Sure, but doing it in 5 days is the same principle, my point is that no one needs to do a 7 day split if their body recovers more quickly or slowly.
after using a 3 day push / pull / leg split for years, i got so bored that i had to stay away from gym for 10 days. i didnt even want to see the weights. i definitely needed a change.
then i came back to the gym and wanted to try something new. for the first time in my life i did a full body routine and really liked it. now i designed 3 different full body routines and will prepare for 01.06.2017 by training like this.
im excited.
To all that have contributed so far: Thank you guys for a great thread! And thank you BrickHead for getting my head straight when it comes to bodybuilding routines and natties (along with Steve Loh’s thread “Sloh’s 3 Year Offseason”).
Got my hands on Thib’s and Paul Carter’s “Maximum Muscle Bible” book, and I must say that I actually find myself gravitating more towards that Clay Hyght bro-split…
Seeing that some of the posts are about splits and training styles, I was wondering if any of you have heard the Geard Up podcast with Thibs and Carter?
A very good point was made by CT that he has mentioned on here before. His message is basically that the most effective training style or split is the one that turns you on.
You could be given THE most effective training routine by Brad Schoenfeld himself, but if it doesn’t “speak to you”… Well…
I know that one of the reasons I’ve been looking for the next big thing, spinning my wheels and have suffered from paralysis by analysis is that I found it hard to get motivated by the “build a strength base first” programs. At the othe end of the spectrum I came across the Mountain Dog programs. But I have no business doing them at the level I’m at.
Somehow I’ve now come full circle and found that I should’ve just stuck to what Mighty Stu told me years ago…facepalm
My apologies if this post seems irrelevant and out of context. Just wanted to express my sincere gratitude for what some of you are doing on this site, sharing info and your experiences for effin’ free. Brick, Stu, EyeDentist, Yogi, dt79, IronAndMetal… Probably forgot someone.
/asskissing
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All his programs are are intelligently laid out Body part splits. You can certainly do those of you feel you get good results from standard BB training.
His “advanced” training only really differs from his “intermediate” training in that he likes to keep volume a bit lower and an exercise is kept in for his intermediates to gauge progress (for example, the incline press for chest/shoulder day would be done every week) whereas his advanced programs could rotate exercises every week.
There’s an article on here called “mountain dog for intermediates” that has a bit more info but you can definitely do this training if it looks good to you
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“#itaintrocketscience” 
S
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“Before I learned the art, a punch was just a punch, and a kick, just a kick.
After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick, no longer a kick.
Now that I understand the art, a punch is just a punch and a kick is just a kick.” -Bruce Lee
Yeah… Now a split is just a split again.
However, the “rocket science phase” did teach me a lot, and I believe that in order to really appreciate simplicity, you have to come full circle somehow.
What does your training look like these days, Stu?
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I’m actually not crazy about the constant changes (even though the intermediate template has a staple strength lift). I have several of his programs, including his first high frequency program (I wanted to get a deeper understanding of how he does things and how his training has evolved), but I prefer my own exercise sequencing. Which sort of defeats the purpose of doing his programs, imo.
I do, however, use some of his principles.