Hi guys, I never used any gear before but I have finally decided to go for it and give it a shot. I found a reliable source at the gym, and plan on doing some “shopping” within the next couple of days. I’ve been trying to read every steroid article here on T-mag I could get my hands on, as well as viewed some drug profiles on other sites.
I was wondering what you guys think about running this cycle for my first time. I’m looking to gain maybe 10-15lbs. of lean mass but mainly harden up. I’m 5’7, 190lbs, about 13%bf. I’m thinking of running a cycle like the one below. Flame me if you will or let me know what I should add, leave in, or take out. Safety is also a big issue for me.
6 week cycle:
Deca- 400mg/week
Winny Depot- 50mg/eod
D-Bol- 40mg/ed
Also throw in some nolvadex every day.
It seems like a lot of guys on this board don’t really like deca, but a lot of people I talk to seem to love it. These drugs are like the classic old school roids. This is not a definite by any means, so please let me know if it sounds good, or if there is something I can change/replace. Thanks
NPP is a better option,easier to control. also boldenon is preferred to deca by many and is available underground even as a propionate ester (much better than acetate - pain free).
or a mix of boldenon prop and NPP.
I see a couple of problems with your cycle.
1st: No test! Test is an excellent starting point for any cycle especially your first.
2nd: Unless you can find some nandrolone phenylpropionate 6 weeks is too short a cycle to use deca. Decanoate is one of the longest acting esters and would probably do more harm then good in a 6 wk cycle.
3rd: You have alot of different drugs for a first cycle with no real method behind their use.
I would be inclined to try a test only cycle for 8-10 weeks. You could start it with 4 weeks of 30mg/day d-bol if you wanted or frontload the test on the first week.
hey i dont know a whole lot about juice but one problem i do see with the revised program is that you’ve got d-bol for all 8 weeks. Correct me if you want guys but isnt it not recommended to go over 6 weeks?? I would say weeks 1-4 with d-bol would be better, also you need to frontload the the test and maybe more overall?? If possible spreading your test injections to twice a week instead of once will help keep your blood chemistry more stable too which will help with such things as acne. Good luck though and listen to these guys on the thread they know A LOT! Keep us updated.
For me that looks like way too much oral( man I never thought there was such a thing). If I am reading your post correctly you will be on orals for 8 weeks straight and weeks 3-8 you will be on 90mgs ed orally combind. I would say to take the d-bol for only the first 2-3 weeks at 40mg ed only till your test kicks in all the way and then stop till a week after your last injection.Then for 2 weeks after that get on winny 50mg ed till you start your pct.
Also 200mg of test once a week is what a doc would prescribe an old man with no nuts. If you want to keep the test that low and use an enanthate ester you might as well add 2 more weeks to your cycle and go ahead and put the deca of EQ back into it at 400mg a week.
lastly I would say get rid of the 20mg of nolva ed during the cycle and run Letrozole .5mg eod for weeks 3-11.
Here is what it would look like with my revisions:
Weeks1,2
200mg test en
400mg EQ(or deca)
40mg D-bol ed
weeks 3-10
200mg test en
400mg EQ(or deca)
.5mg Liquid Letrozole eod
Week 11
50mg winny ed
.5mg Liquid Letrozole eod
6 caps ed Alpha Male
Week12
50mg winny ed
50mg clomid ed
4 caps ed Alpha Male
Weeks 13-14
50mg clomid ed
4 caps ed Alpha Male
please let everyone else look at this cycle and tell you anything I messed up on before you try it if you like the way it looks.
Hope this helps
DA
Thanks for the help Darkangel. So keep the test at the same dosage but throw in some deca and run that til week 10. Also just to clarify, the winstrol i’m going to get would probably be injected, so it wouldn’t be too many orals. From what it sounds like, the oral isn’t as good as the injections anyway. But since it is being injected, couldn’t it be 50mg every other day instead of every day? The main reason i want the winny is to help me harden up. Thanks again because I don’t wanna start the cycle until I get some positive feedback on it.
another option is to just use the winny for the first two weeks and the last two weeks. i had one guy take 50mg split up into two 25mg doses per day, 12 lbs in 4 weeks all retained. this would be in addition to the test and deca or eq, i like eq better, but that is a personal thing. also heed DA’s advice and use an anti-e.
you can, but you have to accept the fact that this is quite a load on some people’s livers due to the extended intake and high amounts. i would tend to agree with this being too much oral and not enough IM. if you are already shooting, and extra 1ml or 2 is not that much. winny is quite active orally, about 90% i believe and you do not have to deal with painful injects every day, save it for the test and or eq, it will be easier on your body, yet you get as much or more hormone than before.
that is why i recommended the winny for two weeks at beginning and end of cycle. at the beginning you will get the quick strength gain and a start to your growth, especially if you respond well to winny. at that dose, there is an upregulation of IGF-1 in the whole body, but only for around two weeks, after that it drops. at the end of the cycle it will lower SHBG which will help you to maintain as much possible coming off.
glad you like the cycle and I think it would work great for you. The only thing that you have to remember about the winny is that administerd orally or injected it is still hard on your liver since its chemical makeup is still the same. Winny is winny no matter how you take it.
DA
[quote]Darkangel wrote:
For me that looks like way too much oral( man I never thought there was such a thing). If I am reading your post correctly you will be on orals for 8 weeks straight and weeks 3-8 you will be on 90mgs ed orally combind. I would say to take the d-bol for only the first 2-3 weeks at 40mg ed only till your test kicks in all the way and then stop till a week after your last injection.Then for 2 weeks after that get on winny 50mg ed till you start your pct.
Also 200mg of test once a week is what a doc would prescribe an old man with no nuts. If you want to keep the test that low and use an enanthate ester you might as well add 2 more weeks to your cycle and go ahead and put the deca of EQ back into it at 400mg a week.
lastly I would say get rid of the 20mg of nolva ed during the cycle and run Letrozole .5mg eod for weeks 3-11.
Here is what it would look like with my revisions:
Weeks1,2
200mg test en
400mg EQ(or deca)
40mg D-bol ed
weeks 3-10
200mg test en
400mg EQ(or deca)
.5mg Liquid Letrozole eod
Week 11
50mg winny ed
.5mg Liquid Letrozole eod
6 caps ed Alpha Male
Week12
50mg winny ed
50mg clomid ed
4 caps ed Alpha Male
Weeks 13-14
50mg clomid ed
4 caps ed Alpha Male
please let everyone else look at this cycle and tell you anything I messed up on before you try it if you like the way it looks.
Hope this helps
DA[/quote]
you only need to use max 2.25 mg of femara a day.
frontload the deca or eq at double the dose for the first 2-3 weeks its a long acting ester that will take time to begin working in the system.
I recomend you do your dbol after week 3. It will take that long for your other injectables to kick in anyway, which will give you good synergy between your class 1s and 2s and at 40mgs per day, you don’t want to get that dbol - back pump 3 weeks into your cycle.
orals are not as liver toxic as people seem to think. Drinking is much more toxic then taking steroid orals, and it takes alcoholics 30-40 years to get to the point where they need a liver transplant. enough said.
P22, Im 'm a little confused. Are you saying he should start his dbol at week 3 or just that he should continue using it until after week three instead of stop after week 2 like I had outlined?
Another question. Is it really necessary to frontload Test and EQ/Deca on a first cycle?
I am still learning and appreciate the info I get from the vets on this forum weather for a person cycle or for one I am trying to help someone else out on.
Could I use proviron instead of the femara? I’m sorry for all the questions, but I think this is the best way to learn. I’m also a little confused about what P#22 wrote about the D-bol. Which week should I start it, and which week should I end it. I’ve read many of P#22’s posts and he definitely seems to know his stuff, so I would appreciate it if anyone could clear that up for me.
O.k, heres the deal. Both deca and eq have pretty long acting esters. Eq is about 10 days halflife and deca is around 15 days half. That means if you do only 400 mg of say deca in your first week thats 200 mg releasing into the body in 2 weeks - roughly (200/14=) 14 mg per day for the first week! excuse my french but that F-all! even if you continue, in the next week you are up to 28 mg, and the week following, 42mg. Of course these are rough estimates, but, I am sure you see my point. Now keep in mind that each mg of nandrolone decanoate is made up of both the steroid, and its ester. A rough estimate is that only 60 percent of each mg is the actual active component. That means by the end of three weeks you only have about 25mg of actual hormone releasing in you body each day. Thats why it is a good idea to get a good long front load in. I recomend doing shots eod of deca, and shots ed of equipoise (as it is usually lower dosed) for the first 3 weeks before droping to shots to twice a week.
You may think its alot to inject all at once, but you must understand that the actual drug that is becoming active in your body each day is 1/30th of what you have injected.
Now as for the dbol. The reason you have chosen dbol to add to your cycle is that it is a class 2 steroid, wheras your injectables are all class 1s. Dbol exerts its affect on the body rather diferently than the class one drugs, meaning you get a synergistic affect that wouldn’t be possible just using class 1 or class 2 steroids alone. That’s why I find it best to wait untill the end of week 3 to begin dbol, as this is when your injectables are finally begining to assert noticable effects (provided you front loaded). Add the dbol and you at this point are throwing gas on a bon fire. Its almost like engaging the nitro on a hotrod. My other point is that most people who use dbol will tell you that after you have been on dbol for about 3 weeks you don’t want to see another dbol for a while. The reason for this is that you aquire the dreaded dbol back pump - Its a condition where your back gets so pumped that it restrics its own blood supply causing an accumulation of lactic acid, it cripples your workout. I have tried every anti-e and have not found anything that counters this as of yet. Its possible diuretics may, but that is a whole different ball game. So my method is to shock your body with the dbol when it is already in an anabolic state - the momentum of your muscle growth has already begun. All you need then is to take it from weeks 3-4, 4-5, and 5-6. After this you cannot expect on that cycle to benifit any more from this drug.
On my last cycle while using dbol after doing one set of squats, deads, or anything involving my lower back I would have to lay down for several minutes and wait for the pump to begin to fade before I could do another set. And that started right around the second week and I dropped it after week 5. I felt fantastic otherwise.
[quote]Darkangel wrote:
Thanks for explaining the dbol timing to us P22. Post like that are why most guys on this board look to you for the answers.
On a side note would Winstrol have the same synergistic effect if it was used inplace of the dbol in a cycle like this?
[/quote]
Yes, of course, Winstrol is a class 2 and would be just as good, but in a different way: less water retention, less size, but a good finisher for the cycle. I have switched from dbol to winstrol mid cycle before - It is especially good when you become tired of that dam back pump, yet still want to keep your cycle going strong.