Creepy Guys in Class

Bigger Stronger Leaner
1

I started a thread in SAMA about a creepy guy in class and it evolved into a discussion about what you can tell about a guy through the way he rolls. Miss Parker and I thought it would be interesting to see what you guys thought. I’m going to be lazy and just copy and paste chunks of that thread. Sorry if it’s super long.

Miss Parker wrote:
Pch2, if you’re still around, you talk about how he rolls with some of the other guys - have you rolled or traded strikes with him yet? (Sorry, if you only do BJJ I guess you’re not trading strikes, but I don’t know if you cross-train).

pch2 wrote:
I haven’t rolled with him. I try not to roll with heavy new white belts, I don’t learn much from them and they just hurt me. The cost to benefit isn’t worth it. I’ve seen how rough he is with the other guys, and just am not going there until he learns to roll. I’m not going to pop another rib to be nice to a new guy. I’ve learned that lesson.

So I see how this gets into the whole if it’s self defense you should roll with anyone, and if BJJ works you should roll with anyone, but what I’m willing to do to some random attacker is not what I’m willing to do during free roll in class. And most of the time we’re not doing self defense, we’re sport rolling. In rolling you must engage, in a self defense situation you deescalate and leave. They’re different beasts. I don’t mean to sound harsh, it’s just a line of thinking I’ve been down before. Did you mean to go somewhere else though?

Miss Parker wrote:
Yes, I didn’t mean it to be critical, or to suggest that you should be able to ‘handle it’ if you were a ‘real’ fighter girl, which may be what you thought I was implying. From what I’ve seen you take your training seriously and you are very knowledgable, so I’m sure you can handle yourself very well whether its sport or self-defense.

Nor do I mean to imply that you SHOULD roll with him. I was just curious. You can tell a great deal about someone by how they roll or spar with you, especially across genders. Sometimes, I’ll do it just to confirm my suspicions about someone, positive or negative. Other times I’ll just say, ‘screw it, its not worth it’. This sounds like one of those times.

pch2 wrote:
Oh, I know exactly what you’re talking about, it’s why I included the initial observation about his rolling. He was beating up on a little new guy. I understand going hard once or twice, because it shows you respect the other person’s ability, but when you’re repeatedly and quickly owning them it’s just being mean. Neither person is learning, and that’s where he took it.

I’m not at a level where I can roll with someone that’s aggressive with out one of us actually getting hurt. I can defend myself, but that involve being rougher than I like to be. I wish I had the skill to dominate someone, let them know they’re being dominated, yet not doing any actual damage. It’ll just take a while. Not being able to stand up for new little guy sucked though. Regardless, I’ve ran way off topic.

What’d you do with students you can sense are there not to learn, but to hurt people? You must get some of those guys.

PonceDeLeon wrote:
This is probably true for the most part, but I will venture to say that some people just seem to lack some kind of emotional sensitivity in CERTAIN contexts, and it’s not necessarily because they are evil people.

pch2 wrote:
Okay, by ‘this’ I assume you mean my observation that how people roll with a variety of people reflects who they are as a person. So you’re saying maybe he is just an asshole while rolling and at no other times. I just can’t buy that. If I were judging on a single match, maybe. People have off days, I’ve had angry days where I’ve been quite mean, but that’s a match or two. My observation was based on two weeks of observations, and a few matches that really stood out. After two weeks, despite not knowing technique one does know how strong they are, and how easily they can move another person. Maybe he just goes hard and mean because he assumes his opponent is better than him? I can buy that if it was the first time he had rolled with that person, but most of the time it’s not. we don’t have that many people in class.

The instance that stands out and made me judge him as a puppy kicker, was after he had rolled with the kid once and proved he was better than the kid. He also has 50lbs and 6 in on the kid. He then proceeded to take the kid down and slam him, then submit him through just pain. That’s just not okay in my book. It means that he’s unnecessarily violent, and either unable to control himself, or unwilling. Why would I want to be around that?

Miss Parker wrote:
I agree with the poster who said the instructor should be handling the issue. The creepy guy should only be permitted to train with guys who can school him. ‘Free roll’ time is not an excuse to allow beginning students to be harmed.

To answer your question, it depends on the situation. As a student, if I truly believe someone will try to intentionally hurt me, I’ll refuse to train with them unless my skills are better than theirs. For instance, there is a big strong woman who has a compulsion to dominate others who sometimes trains with us. She is always ‘sorry’ if she hurts someone, but its happened more than once.

I’ll stand up & trade strikes with her because I’m confident that if she starts to try to take me out, I can put a definite stop to it. However, there’s no way I’ll roll with her. She’s stronger, bigger, and way more skilled than me on the ground. She’s injured me badly before. So I politely say no. At this point she generally only trains with brand new people, who she really will be patient and kind to, or advanced BJJ males.

As an instructor, I do what my boss has instructed me to do: give a very direct verbal warning, maybe two. If they continue to overdo it because they just don’t get it, I’ll make them partner with a stronger, more advanced student. If they’re malicious, I become their new training partner & dominate them or throw them out. Fortunately, I’ve never had to throw anyone out.

Obviously the other guys in your group either think he’s okay, or are willing to put up with him for some reason, or he wouldn’t have been in the group that stopped by your house. I wonder what the deal is there? Whatever the case is, I’m glad you’re continuing to listen to your gut about this guy.

And you should absolutely post a thread about this in the combat forum. I love those guys, they always have great insights.

2

Don’t really follow the entire discussion… probably missed some key points. But on the lines of going hard constantly… he may have been a wrestler in his past life… its just how hes wired. I know back when I first started jujitsu that was something I struggled with. I wasn’t trying to hurt anybody and luckily no one was hurt, but I did have aggression issues that I had to work out.

I know at our school my coach lectures us every other day on injuries and to not injure our partners etc… because that just cuts into the amount of people you can roll with and hurts you in the long run. But we roll with everyone because every person has something new or different about them and that’s the only way you get better. Have people gotten injured… sadly yes. Guy broke his collar bone a couple months ago and I’m still healing from cracked ribs… both accidents… other people different issues.

Basically shit happens, never know who you’re going to roll with… Imo you should train with anyone that you can, because that’s the only way you get better. I know I’ve gotten better because I’ve been completely dominated by people.

Can you read people based on how they roll… yeah. Maybe he doesn’t get much attention in his every day life and this is how he validates himself… should you avoid him because of fear of injury… imo no.

3

I was rolling with a brand new white belt last night and he was going hard core and getting nowhere. I was purposely chucking him in guard and then his way to pass guard was to dig his elbows in and try to crack me open. As I said to him, in comp that’s fine, but in training all that does is make me angry and not want to train with him. When I said this to him I swept him into side control and submitted him on a figure 4.

There are guys that just seem to want to roll hard and I think all that happens then is I either pick something I want to work on and just go at that. I tend to find even if you just do this they’re generaly so sloppy and hell for leather you tend to end up in a dominant position and submitting them anyway.

I guess the main thing is that I’ve rarely run into anyone more than a high white that isn’t taking it fairly easy and workign on technique when we’re rolling, it’s usually newbies.

I think that for guys that roll hard in the beginning there are two variants, either highly competitive guys that can’t stand to lose and they don’t process going quick means they’re likely to lose quicker :slight_smile: the other are guys that seem to think they’ll rock up for a BJJ class and just be one of those ‘naturals’, I think it’s frustration when they figure they won’t be.

For guys that I’ve seen that are high whites and further on still rolling hard they’re usually highly competitive, generally roll guys less skilled to maintain the illusion they’re good and they never really test themselves. None of our highly skilled guys roll hard unless it’s for comp training, even then… not really.

That’s just what I’ve noticed on the mats. I tend to keep it pretty slow and I want to work on techniques and pick something I’m bad at to work on, especially with higher belts. The good guys will actually give you some tips as you go which is great! The guys that are rolling hard are just competitive and think they’re better than they are generally. They don’t tend to challenge themselves.

4

(a) Why are you so obsessed with this guy?

(b) I think the “you can tell a lot about somebody by how they roll” bit is tough to say. One guy at one gym I train at is a low-level pro MMA guy and has some submission grappling wins. He’s extremely explosive in his grappling and very strong. I’ve only been training BJJ for about a month, so needless to say we are on two different levels. When we roll, he doesn’t show me any mercy. In the beginning, it was to the point where I couldn’t even mount a coherent defense before he overwhelmed me and choked me out in 5 seconds. If you looked at the way that guy treated me (and some other new guys) when we roll, you would call him an asshole and say it wasn’t helping anybody.

But the thing is, after a couple weeks of that, I’ve started to adjust. I’m getting used to the speed and violence that he attacks with. Often, I still fuck up some technique and get tapped in 5 seconds. But, every now and then, I see what he’s going for and am able to defend. A couple times recently I have even been able to improve position or attempt some offense before getting submitted. After class, he’ll tell me what I messed up or what I need to work on to not get swept a certain way or not give up a certain choke.

So, just based on watching that guy roll, you might call him an asshole, but the bottom line is that I’m getting so much better from rolling with him. When I roll with some other guys, shit seems to be in slow motion because I’ve trained at such a violent pace with him.

On the flip side, I am a 6’3", 200 pound guy with a decent amount of muscle on me and a collegiate athletic background. Yes, it’s still very possible for a better grappler to hurt me, but there’s not too many guys who are just going to be able to ragdoll me based on pure physical strength. It’s tough for me to put myself in position of a woman rolling against a man.

I think it also depends on the environment of your gym. As a student, I think it’s good to roll with lots of different guys and, if possible, in more than one gym. One gym that I train at is a much more relaxed atmosphere and very technique focused. The other is much more violent in it’s approach and it is harder to try new techniques sometimes because you are just worried about not getting crushed. And of course, different guys in the same gym have different approaches. I think it can be valuable training with the relaxed, technical guy as it gives you a chance to try new things and see things developing and also understand the threat that can be posed by someone with excellent technique and positioning. On the other hand, if you never train with a “violent sparrer,” then you can freeze up and get surprised by the explosiveness and pace that some people go with. If you get overwhelmed by a frenzied attack, you never get the chance to use your technique. So I think there’s always something that can be learned.

5

[quote]ozzyaaron wrote:
I think that for guys that roll hard in the beginning there are two variants, either highly competitive guys that can’t stand to lose and they don’t process going quick means they’re likely to lose quicker :slight_smile: the other are guys that seem to think they’ll rock up for a BJJ class and just be one of those ‘naturals’, I think it’s frustration when they figure they won’t be.[/quote]

I’m also interested to know the structure of your class. At some schools I have been to, almost the entire class is rolling. One thing I like is doing some drills where you are learning new techniques or going over different things and you are drilling that with a lot of repetition at a learning pace. Both guys are almost working together to help each other improve techniques. Then, you do some more general drills where you might be starting in one position and working to improve/defend or working a chain of submissions from a particular position. Then the pace is competitive, but still with the understanding of trying to work technique rather than power. Then you have the time to free roll and work on being more powerful and explosive. I like the setup where you are working all three.

But I’m a newbie who still doesn’t know shit, so…

6

rolling with girls is hard for guys…im typically much larger and stronger than the women that frequent our gym. i usually get paired with them, however, because i can be counted on to not muscle them around and usually let them work…and i have a gf so i can be counted on not to be a retard when the more attractive girls show up to class. that said, i frickin hate it. ive gotten used to it so i can actually do it without being all awkward, but i am not comfortable rolling around with girls (or guys for that matter) who are at a distinct size advantage, im always worried about injuring them. fortunately (i guess) ive only hurt a couple guys when they went all agro so i guess i should appreciate the fact that most women actually try to utilize technique rather than spazzing out like idiots.

7

Pch2, everytime you have a problem with a guy you seem to label them as creepy.

Fact of the matter is, if you ll ever need to use any rolling techniques in the real world with anyone, it ll be with a guy. While i’m not saying to go in and get yourself hurt, you should probably take a good hard look at yourself and ask yourself why it is you do what you do.

8

Our instructor(s) were always more cautious about who they had the female students roll with, even the advanced ones. Only those students who proved that they could show restraint and work with the female students both respectfully (let’s face it, some grappling positions could be interpreted as sexual or even traumatic to a female student) and in control were allowed to do so.

I don’t really know what your purposes of training BJJ are, but if you are more interested in sport JJ, or just really get a bad vibe from this guy then it’s completely your right to not roll/spar with him. It’s ultimately your body and your right to decide what you feel safe/comfortable doing with it.

If self defense is your goal, then realize that a real attacker isn’t going to show you any quarter, and you are very likely going to be smaller, weaker, and have to fight very rough/dirty if you want to get out of the situation in one piece. So, getting used to working with very aggressive, stronger, bigger opponents in a controlled environment (the dojo) is an important step. You don’t want the first time you do so to be when it’s for all the marbles, and don’t lie to yourself and think that you “know” that you’d be able to just do so if you had to. You don’t know until you are put into that situation. That of course doesn’t mean that it has to be this particular guy.

As far as judging someone by how they train, I’d agree with jtrinsey. Do you know for certain what this particular guy’s goals are in terms of training BJJ? Or, as someone mentioned earlier, what his training background is (if any)?

Perhaps he’s there specifically for self defense reasons, has been in some real fights and knows the ferocity with which they often occur, and is just training himself to fight the way he knows he’ll have to for real. When we used to roll (at least the more advanced guys/gals) we were actually encouraged by be very aggressive, fight “dirty” (the definition of which is somewhat system specific, we just called it “effective”), and take every advantage that we could. We weren’t training to win trophies though, we were training for survival.

The guy who I came up through the ranks with was extremely aggressive while sparring. But, he was also a great guy and absolutely not an asshole.

If someone who wasn’t used to that type of energy came in to try class I could see how they might be really intimidated/turned off by it. For us it was just the way it was. You also learn how to deal with it rather quickly, and eventually become somewhat desensitized to it, as well as becoming quite proficient at dealing with newb wild, big, strong, super aggressive students who try to simply overpower you. A lot of wrestlers also have a similar mindset of being very aggressive, rough, and trying to dominate their opponents rather than “work with” them.

Of course, when we were working with less aggressive, lower skilled, or significantly smaller/weaker people, we would often go easier with them and basically just try to “challenge them, but not conquer them”. Essentially giving them enough resistance to make they really work, but not just schooling them and tapping them quickly, as really that didn’t do either of us any good. Every now and then maybe you’d go a little rougher/harder with them to get them gradually used to that sort of energy though. There were also different intensities of rolling/sparring.

Or, perhaps he’s just suffering from low self esteem and feels like he has to prove something by beating up on the smaller/weaker people, since he knows that he can’t do so with the bigger/better people.

Okay, but enough of my rant. Bottom line is that he makes you feel uncomfortable, then trust your gut and don’t train with him specifically.

9

I think by creepy you most likely mean he is not attractive. I tried to read what you were saying but it is hard to read so much and remember it all to respond. So please bare with me.

1st- You said the guy was rolling with a little guy and was kicking his ass constantly. Here is how I look at that from having been in that situation. As a bigger guy I get so fucking pissed that I have to roll half go and not use full strength because they are always trying to get me to roll with little guys trying to prove they can take a bigger guy out. As a big guy this gets so fucking annoying so fucking quick, always having to hold back so much. That could have been this guys way to tell the little guy fuck off you are wasting my time.

2nd-If you are interested in Self Defense as you alluded to earlier that you are into both sport and selfD then you need to go up against guys that scare you or intimidate you. I am not saying you should roll with a guy that is a horrible training partner and will hurt you. But, if you tell any bigger guy hey I want you to roll with me just a little with escalating intensity to see if I can apply this stuff in a true attack most guys should be willing to accomodate you. To me there is a difference between rolling and drilling. Rolling implies go time to me I will go full go unless some one says roll at 50%. Drilling is technique based and is nowhere near full go, so definitely make the distinction, are we drilling? going half go, or full go rolling?

3rd- This is why women should never train with men…Ever. Honestly it is hard to train seriously as a man vs. women. When you roll with them you are not getting a thing out of it. Inevitably the woman is going to complain about unfair treatment of some kind. Men are Men-Women are Women, if you are going to try to train with men be prepared to be dominated or to have guys take it way to easy on you. The best thing for a woman as far as self defense is to get the biggest and strongest guy and tell him to attack you like a rapist for a minute or two and just try to defend yourself, if you can do it then your self defense is good if not you will be raped. If your interest is purely sport BJJ then never roll with men, because they don’t take you seriously.

10

[quote]mcstoots082 wrote:
If your interest is purely sport BJJ then never roll with men, because they don’t take you seriously.[/quote]
And also because you would only compete against women anyway.

11

[quote]mcstoots082 wrote:

3rd- This is why women should never train with men…Ever. Honestly it is hard to train seriously as a man vs. women. When you roll with them you are not getting a thing out of it. Inevitably the woman is going to complain about unfair treatment of some kind. Men are Men-Women are Women, if you are going to try to train with men be prepared to be dominated or to have guys take it way to easy on you. The best thing for a woman as far as self defense is to get the biggest and strongest guy and tell him to attack you like a rapist for a minute or two and just try to defend yourself, if you can do it then your self defense is good if not you will be raped. If your interest is purely sport BJJ then never roll with men, because they don’t take you seriously.[/quote]

Perhaps its true you get nothing out of it, Mcstoots, but don’t give up. If you keep practicing you will improve with time, and then the girls will take you seriously.

12

Pch2 is creepy, I hope she goes away

13

Im a pch2 fan.
so take this, with a smile

lost of people are into this for different reasons.
Lots of people are excited to actually do work
Maybe it is totally innocent of any malice- I dont know.
Lots of people - this is their ‘thing’ even if they absolutely suck and they are just always full on.

I try to roll casual.
or roll appropriately.

having been lucky enough to roll with the ‘big dogs’ or in the ‘big room’
I had a hard time in the beginning say rolling recreationally.
but again I had to learn how to roll appropriately and not want to compete,
and part of the things I had to work on very hard was coming back to strong with the wrong people.
or what is typical.
are we drilling?
is this fun between classes?
does johny blue gi have something I don’t know about at stake in this class.

sometimes I have ‘taken a shine’ to a new student usually its one who is being a prick. but again I roll appropriately.
And some people who should know better sometimes like to be a little rough.
sometimes people think its a way to motivate.

and this is two way I have been on both ends of this.
I have had many many training partners over the years who crushed me every time. every day.
and I ate it up when you compete thats your job.
when your johnny blue gi- well not so much.

It gets more tiresome with ‘noob’ freak outs nut kicks and face scratching maybe its more of a two way street- I wasn’t there so I don’t know.
sometimes its too hard to deal with a noob other then to school them a little bit.

I get just as frustrated , with say the kid who wants to roll hard.
Like real hard. Usually they happen to be larger then me. Surprised?

Usually its when they know I wrestled or played judo for a long long time- they want to ’ see how they compare’
and that is ok , if they are up front about it.
or it depends on where I am, If I am a few places, I went there to roll hard, and get beat up.
and every one else in the room is there for the same reason.

It happens all the time.
hey can we work take downs? usually means can you show me some other crap.
or "hey can we work on what we did last time, I think I got it’ its cool.

sometimes it means ‘im’ not going to let you take me down, or Im going to stop or sub you super hard ’
‘or watch how I catch this guy’
its a pain in the ass.

Lots of this is avoided - when you do it longer- you get to see whom you like or do not like to roll with.
I know it sounds snobby- but its true.

I do like to work hard, and go hard when I can- when health allows :slight_smile: but I can usually gauge with whom its ok or not cool
and Id like to hope most people think the same way with me.

any way if you dont like how this guy conducts himself at a place you pay to go you can
avoid dude . discuss it with a teacher or older student or even just ask him.
You might be surprised- or not.

and what is with all the large guy anger?
its not the power cage.
its a fucking grappling class.

get your collective panties out of your ass, and stop with the sexism.
I’m sure for those of you who want to use your ’ full strength’ not that that has much to do with grappling.
you can find a club where you can do so.

they do have absolute class at almost every tournament for that very reason.

14

It seems like every man under the sun is trying to fight off the sobriquet “creepy”. Yeah, it’s annoying, but a) it’s not the major point of the post b) I’m sure it’s justified for her to be posting it over and over with a description of the guy’s character deficiencies. Some guys just don’t want to play nice, and don’t want to be seen losing, big guys or small, I’ve had one friend (super competitive dude) say he’s never been tapped, I politely remind him of the time I got his back and he tapped to a body triangle. He denies it ever happened. Huh, you forgot? CREEPY.

15

[quote]Miss Parker wrote:

[quote]mcstoots082 wrote:

3rd- This is why women should never train with men…Ever. Honestly it is hard to train seriously as a man vs. women. When you roll with them you are not getting a thing out of it. Inevitably the woman is going to complain about unfair treatment of some kind. Men are Men-Women are Women, if you are going to try to train with men be prepared to be dominated or to have guys take it way to easy on you. The best thing for a woman as far as self defense is to get the biggest and strongest guy and tell him to attack you like a rapist for a minute or two and just try to defend yourself, if you can do it then your self defense is good if not you will be raped. If your interest is purely sport BJJ then never roll with men, because they don’t take you seriously.[/quote]

Perhaps its true you get nothing out of it, Mcstoots, but don’t give up. If you keep practicing you will improve with time, and then the girls will take you seriously. [/quote]

Miss Parker I know it is a sexist view but we had the same issue in high school wrestling. It is not fair to have women training with men and definitely not fair to have women compete with men, especially in a combat sport. The women get hurt and the guys dont get good training. This is not at all a constant, but is more often then not how it is.

16

[quote]kmcnyc wrote:

and what is with all the large guy anger?
its not the power cage.
its a fucking grappling class.

get your collective panties out of your ass, and stop with the sexism.
I’m sure for those of you who want to use your ’ full strength’ not that that has much to do with grappling.
you can find a club where you can do so.

they do have absolute class at almost every tournament for that very reason.

[/quote]
Listen I understand most of what you are saying, but here is my point about bigger guys getting pissed from having to roll with little guys and women.

1st- When I do a grappling tourney and I am in my own weight class rolling with guys my own size is completely different then rolling with little guys/women. Now I have to go full go with a guy my own size, and I am not used to that because I have had to baby all the weaker people I have been rolling with.

2nd- I will admit right now I am no BJJ badass and I do not know everything or claim to. Infact I bet most of you are better at BJJ then me. But I have been wrestling/grappling since 8th grade. You saying strength has nothing to do with grappling is wrong, it is not the most important aspect but if you are not comparably as strong as your opponent you will have a lot harder time with said opponent than if you were stronger then him. In any combat sport strength is important, not as important as some would think but it does matter.

I have never tried to hurt anyone in a BJJ class or seminar, I learned how to be a good training partner in high school wrestling. I was a wrestler though and early on had to learn to take it a bit slower in BJJ classes, even when it was full go. But, if I was working with some one way under my level I would sub the shit out of them so they can either go train with some one else or bring more intensity. I am a firm believer in you compete how you practice, I like to practice hard, then when I am competing it is a normal day for me.

17

[quote]mcstoots082 wrote:

[quote]Miss Parker wrote:

[quote]mcstoots082 wrote:

3rd- This is why women should never train with men…Ever. Honestly it is hard to train seriously as a man vs. women. When you roll with them you are not getting a thing out of it. Inevitably the woman is going to complain about unfair treatment of some kind. Men are Men-Women are Women, if you are going to try to train with men be prepared to be dominated or to have guys take it way to easy on you. The best thing for a woman as far as self defense is to get the biggest and strongest guy and tell him to attack you like a rapist for a minute or two and just try to defend yourself, if you can do it then your self defense is good if not you will be raped. If your interest is purely sport BJJ then never roll with men, because they don’t take you seriously.[/quote]

Perhaps its true you get nothing out of it, Mcstoots, but don’t give up. If you keep practicing you will improve with time, and then the girls will take you seriously. [/quote]

Miss Parker I know it is a sexist view but we had the same issue in high school wrestling. It is not fair to have women training with men and definitely not fair to have women compete with men, especially in a combat sport. The women get hurt and the guys dont get good training. This is not at all a constant, but is more often then not how it is.[/quote]

This is better. There is a big difference between pointing out that women are more likely to get hurt when they go hard with men “more often than not” and saying they should never ever train with men and aren’t taken seriously when they do.

I actually have seen it from your side - I occasionally have trained with the 12 & 14 year old sons of one of our schools instructors. These boys are half my size & strength, so of course I could dominate them with no effort at all, if I chose to do so. They even have the body issues some of the women y’all train with will present: they are nervous as cats in a room full of rocking chairs when its time to get into my guard, & when a technique required one of them to push with his hand against my chest, his face got so red I thought his head would explode. And yeah, its weird to train with someone whose body is so much smaller than mine. I am forced to exhibit something called control. No, I would not care to train with them all the time. Sometimes I need to go hard, or my own training will suffer.

But I DO take them seriously - they are there to train and learn just like I am, and I respect anybody who is willing to work hard, regardless of their current level of ability. And I DO get something out of working with them - by focusing just on technique, I am able to improve my technique, instead of muscling through.

I notice you accuse women of complaining of unfair treatment, yet you are the one complaining that its “definitely unfair” because “the guys don’t get good training” when they train with women.

That being said, I also believe that outside of a team environment you should not be required to train with anyone you don’t want to. If I should be allowed to refuse to train with someone, then you should also have that right.

18

OP- What’s your point? You don’t like guys that roll agressively? This makes them creepy? State your purpose in one or two sentences instead of the meandering posts which don’t make sense.

If you don’t like people who roll very hard, you wouldn’t like me. I’m not going to willingly lose and I’ll do what I have to not to.

The fact that I’ve actually been able to turn off my instinct that is screaming “Grab his jugular” whenever I’m rolling is, to me, an accomplishment.

19

[quote]mcstoots082 wrote:
I think by creepy you most likely mean he is not attractive. I tried to read what you were saying but it is hard to read so much and remember it all to respond. So please bare with me.

1st- You said the guy was rolling with a little guy and was kicking his ass constantly. Here is how I look at that from having been in that situation. As a bigger guy I get so fucking pissed that I have to roll half go and not use full strength because they are always trying to get me to roll with little guys trying to prove they can take a bigger guy out. As a big guy this gets so fucking annoying so fucking quick, always having to hold back so much. That could have been this guys way to tell the little guy fuck off you are wasting my time.
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^^^Yes, this.

Back when I did BJJ regularly there was myself and one other larger, in shape guys (lots of larger fat guys). Instructor for awhile was an internationally ranked Gracie Black Belt (was Brown when we first met) woman.

Anytime a half-way experienced female would show up (new or visiting, friend of hers, whatever) first thing they’d insist on doing was rolling with this other guy or myself.

It got really old, really quick, being asked to roll with every girl with a chip on her shoulder wanting to demonstrate her “amazing” technique.

Not fun, didn’t learn anything, and they often ended up throwing a fit after about how x, y and z should have worked.

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[quote]mcstoots082 wrote:

[quote]Miss Parker wrote:

[quote]mcstoots082 wrote:

3rd- This is why women should never train with men…Ever. Honestly it is hard to train seriously as a man vs. women. When you roll with them you are not getting a thing out of it. Inevitably the woman is going to complain about unfair treatment of some kind. Men are Men-Women are Women, if you are going to try to train with men be prepared to be dominated or to have guys take it way to easy on you. The best thing for a woman as far as self defense is to get the biggest and strongest guy and tell him to attack you like a rapist for a minute or two and just try to defend yourself, if you can do it then your self defense is good if not you will be raped. If your interest is purely sport BJJ then never roll with men, because they don’t take you seriously.[/quote]

Perhaps its true you get nothing out of it, Mcstoots, but don’t give up. If you keep practicing you will improve with time, and then the girls will take you seriously. [/quote]

Miss Parker I know it is a sexist view but we had the same issue in high school wrestling. It is not fair to have women training with men and definitely not fair to have women compete with men, especially in a combat sport. The women get hurt and the guys dont get good training. This is not at all a constant, but is more often then not how it is.[/quote]

just to be devils advocate :stuck_out_tongue: unlike Texas in Alaska women wrestle with men because there isn’t enough women wrestlers. This girl wrestles in Oklahoma now with a couple of my friends… also women wrestlers.