Counting The Bar?

Training Bodybuilding
81

To the angry dentist,

Fitness first near my house had 2 Olympic bars. One was a good 18kg bar and the other was a plastic 12kg bar.

You may have never found the need for micro loading, but I was the only way I could get to pressing the 50kg dumbbells. I added 0.5kgs to one side of the dumbbell each week. Not everyone is as genetically gifted as you big fella.

Point being the 6kg difference between the bars would make a big difference if youre at close to your max.

Of course it doesn’t matter if you’re at the same gym, using the same bars all the time…I’ve just being traveling for 9 months so I rarely saw the same gym more than 3 times.

82

I have never considered that people could think about this differently than I do. I count the total weight 135, 225, 315, 405, etc. As long as the total weight increases who the F cares.

83

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Why do you think everyone needs to write anything down? While I have nothing against keeping records, some of the least developed people I see are the ones who do. I have never had any trouble remembering what I am lifting.
[/quote]

Contrary to popular belief, I am not trying to make you look bad. I ask questions to learn, not to be ridiculed.

I fully understand that not everyone needs to keep a log. You have certainly made excellent gains without the use of one. However, many of the top strength athletes keep a log to track their gains. If they make a change to their program, of they hit a plateau they can look back and see what worked and what didn’t.

If you don’t need one, or wouldn’t benefit from one, that’s fine. You know what works best for you.

Certainly that’s one way of training, and if you’ve made good progress, then by no means am I suggesting that you switch. I make progress by lifting a weight for specified range. Currently that is 1-3 reps. If I get 1,2 or 3 reps at the desired weight, I push it up the next week. And yes, that could be by as little as 5lbs. If I hit it again, I raise it again the next week. This is true whether I’m doing 1-3’s, 5x5, 10x3 or whatever. It’s just another way of training.

My focus is on getting stronger right now, with size being an added benefit. I would hazard to guess that your focus is on size with strength being an added benefit (If I’m wrong, I apologize for assuming).

Please don’t assume that I don’t push myself. You have no idea how I train. Maybe I do push myself, maybe I don’t. Unless you’ve seen me train, it is foolish to imply that I don’t bust my ass in the gym. That would be as careless as implying that someone was using steroids or just genetically gifted because of their size or strength, it takes away from the effort. It is simply a way of demeaning another based on nothing other than assumptions.

This was a silly thread to begin with, and it has just gotten worse. I didn’t mean to insult you, I was honestly just looking for information from you.

84

[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:

You may have never found the need for micro loading, but I was the only way I could get to pressing the 50kg dumbbells. I added 0.5kgs to one side of the dumbbell each week. Not everyone is as genetically gifted as you big fella. [/quote]

He’s not the only one who doesn’t microload. I never use 2.5’s, and only use 5 lbs if I absolutely have to. Maybe I set my weight goals too high? I doubt it.

85

STOP IT EVERYONE STOP IT!!! this guy is obviously a troll, he makes a thread wondering whether you should count the bar or not and then calls out Prof X in another, without provocation. This queer has pitted everyone against each other on a subject that has NO REAL VALUE. Let this troll’s thread die.

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[quote]tora no’ shi wrote:
exactly the way i feel…

Professor X wrote:
Most people not trying to impress anyone simply count plates unless they are involved in a powerlifting meet, and that is simply for their own tracking of progress. I never even used the term, “405lbs” until I first explained it to someone else who wasn’t involved in my training at all. Other than that, it was simple, “4 plates a side”.

[/quote]

i have to disagree with the “most people” here. i think that most people, when asked how much they can bench press- as almost everyone that looks like they lift gets asked at some point, by somebody (more like by your friends, at every social gathering)…they definitely answer with the number than includes the bar.

it just makes sense. the bar weighs 45lbs, so do the plates- youre counting the plates, why not count the bar?

now, i guess what you meant by trying to “impress” people comes into play here. if my friends ask me how much i can bench press, i tell them the answer. ive known them long enough, been through enough, etc, etc- i dont care so much about trying to impress them.

in fact, if a girl asks how much i can lift in this or that, its kind of embarrassing, and then its necessary to make a conscious effort not to come off as a meathead.

87

[quote]dez6485 wrote:
tora no’ shi wrote:
exactly the way i feel…

Professor X wrote:
Most people not trying to impress anyone simply count plates unless they are involved in a powerlifting meet, and that is simply for their own tracking of progress. I never even used the term, “405lbs” until I first explained it to someone else who wasn’t involved in my training at all. Other than that, it was simple, “4 plates a side”.

i have to disagree with the “most people” here. i think that most people, when asked how much they can bench press- as almost everyone that looks like they lift gets asked at some point, by somebody (more like by your friends, at every social gathering)…they definitely answer with the number than includes the bar.

it just makes sense. the bar weighs 45lbs, so do the plates- youre counting the plates, why not count the bar?

now, i guess what you meant by trying to “impress” people comes into play here. if my friends ask me how much i can bench press, i tell them the answer. ive known them long enough, been through enough, etc, etc- i dont care so much about trying to impress them.

in fact, if a girl asks how much i can lift in this or that, its kind of embarrassing, and then its necessary to make a conscious effort not to come off as a meathead.
[/quote]

I refuse to believe the level of comprehension on this site is so disturbingly low that this is still being argued. OBVIOUSLY IF SOMEONE OUTSIDE OF THE GYM ASKED HOW MUCH YOU BENCH THE ANSWER WOULD BE THE TOTAL WEIGHT INCLUDING THE BAR AND THE FUCKING PLATES.

I even wrote that in this thread yet it is still being argued against.

WHY?

Most people who ask that question are NOT the regular gym members who see you lifting the damn thing but random people on the street, most of which don’t even lift.

Not to mention that I specifically wrote my answer to most of them is, “I don’t bench” which leaves them dumbfounded.

Could at least another 30 people log on to argue against this just so I can be sure that all is lost when it comes to the existence of basic language skills and the lost ancient art of “common sense”.

If you are explaining how much you lift to someone NOT in a gym and NOT in some powerlifting meet, you are trying to impress them. Why? Because if they don’t lift regularly, the number means relatively nothing to them. They will simply say, “wow” at pretty much any number that comes out of your mouth as long as it weighs more than they do.

This entire discussion, again, simply shows those who aren’t all that developed. Someone who was wouldn’t be so caught up in the fact that someone counts plates when they lift.

The most ridiculous post has to be the guy who wrote he would think you were a waiter. Yes, if you were in a gym and someone said they were lifting 4 plates a side, your dumb ass would think “restaurant”. Thanks for sharing.

Dumbest thread of the year award, right here.

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The counter weight you are talking about would be used when determining centroids and moments of inertia about a point.

For example, when you bench, the y axis centriod is irrelevant so you’re only concern is the x centroid. Using int(xdA)/int(dA) or just straight up centroids by shapes, the bar would have an x centroid at the center of the x-axis. This weight is still pushing down, but it’s evenly spread so you have an even load on each hand.

When I put weight on the bar, I put the same amount of weight on each side (i know, call me nuts). This keeps the centroid between my hands, putting an even load on each.

Counter weighting the bar in this case would mean if your right hand/arm was experiencing an increased load due to the centriod being somewhere besides the middle, you would put more weight on the left, or shift the current weights further to the left.

When you lift the bar, you are still lifting the weight of the bar. In order to counter the weight of the bar, you would have to attach -45lb weights, or sit on top of a magnet excerting 45lbs of upward force in a uniform field. Seeing as there are no such thing as negative weights, or magnets with a uniform field as r goes to infinity, you’re SOL there.

Hopefully this kills the thread :slight_smile:

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[quote]dez6485 wrote:

in fact, if a girl asks how much i can lift in this or that, its kind of embarrassing, and then its necessary to make a conscious effort not to come off as a meathead.
[/quote]

This is when the old top gun “I can hold my own” comes in. For most girls, knowing exactly what you can lift will only confirm their opinion of you.

I would say something “I just lift for fun. The amount of weight’s not that important”.

Of course, I know exactly what I can lift but my Dad would say “You don’t need to make everyone else as smart as you”.

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[quote]Fulmen wrote:
Andrew Dixon wrote:

You may have never found the need for micro loading, but I was the only way I could get to pressing the 50kg dumbbells. I added 0.5kgs to one side of the dumbbell each week. Not everyone is as genetically gifted as you big fella.

He’s not the only one who doesn’t microload. I never use 2.5’s, and only use 5 lbs if I absolutely have to. Maybe I set my weight goals too high? I doubt it.
[/quote]

I got the idea after reading Beyond Brawn. I highly recommend for those struggling to put the weight up. The smallest I have is 1lbs. ‘Plate Mates’ come in much smaller increments I believe.

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let’s clarify this, correct me if im wrong but i don’t think i am. The reason why Prof X doesn’t use small increments like five pounds or ten pounds, etc.(the reason this micro load thing started is b/c i believe he stated this) is because he uses rep progression with a certain weight. He starts off doing it a few times, then progresses till he can rep it ten times or so. That constitutes a big move up in weight so that is the reason why he doesn’t have to move up in small incriments. I believe he stated this but apparently, nobody read it.

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[quote]That One Guy wrote:
I believe he stated this but apparently, nobody read it. [/quote]

That’s because it’s Idiot Season…and these fuckers breed like rabbits.

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[quote]That One Guy wrote:
let’s clarify this, correct me if im wrong but i don’t think i am. The reason why Prof X doesn’t use small increments like five pounds or ten pounds, etc.(the reason this micro load thing started is b/c i believe he stated this) is because he uses rep progression with a certain weight. He starts off doing it a few times, then progresses till he can rep it ten times or so. That constitutes a big move up in weight so that is the reason why he doesn’t have to move up in small incriments. I believe he stated this but apparently, nobody read it. [/quote]

Its much harder to up a rep than to go up 0.5kgs. Both systems will work, you just go up every session with micro loading. Maybe the Prof X can go up a rep each time, but I can’t when pushing near max.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
I believe he stated this but apparently, nobody read it.

That’s because it’s Idiot Season…and these fuckers breed like rabbits.[/quote]

So sorry I missed it. Do you still love me?

95

[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:

Its much harder to up a rep than to go up 0.5kgs.
[/quote]

Bingo. I do believe I stated that in this thread already. I think some of you train and then write down even the smallest increase as a great accomplishment.

That would mean that over the same amount of time, someone pushing harder will probably make more progress even though your “log” shows that you have improved by the speific weight lifted, the overall increase over the same amount of time may actually be less. I credit HIT with thinking much the same way.

This is the point where others claim that they are training hard and that the reason they haven’t actually grown much is due to a whole host of excuses.

But hey, at least you and others are stopping people from the horrible act of saying, “let’s go up to 4 plates a side”.

96

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Andrew Dixon wrote:

Its much harder to up a rep than to go up 0.5kgs.

Bingo. I do believe I stated that in this thread already. I think some of you train and then write down even the smallest increase as a great accomplishment.

That would mean that over the same amount of time, someone pushing harder will probably make more progress even though your “log” shows that you have improved by the speific weight lifted, the overall increase over the same amount of time may actually be less. I credit HIT with thinking much the same way.

This is the point where others claim that they are training hard and that the reason they haven’t actually grown much is due to a whole host of excuses.

But hey, at least you and others are stopping people from the horrible act of saying, “let’s go up to 4 plates a side”. [/quote]

Dear God, please let this thread die.

97

[quote]Modi wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Andrew Dixon wrote:

Its much harder to up a rep than to go up 0.5kgs.

Bingo. I do believe I stated that in this thread already. I think some of you train and then write down even the smallest increase as a great accomplishment.

That would mean that over the same amount of time, someone pushing harder will probably make more progress even though your “log” shows that you have improved by the speific weight lifted, the overall increase over the same amount of time may actually be less. I credit HIT with thinking much the same way.

This is the point where others claim that they are training hard and that the reason they haven’t actually grown much is due to a whole host of excuses.

But hey, at least you and others are stopping people from the horrible act of saying, “let’s go up to 4 plates a side”.

Dear God, please let this thread die.[/quote]

Modi,

haven’t you learned your lesson? this kind of stuff is why I don’t post outside of the Westside thread anymore.

meat

98

[quote]Modi wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Andrew Dixon wrote:

Its much harder to up a rep than to go up 0.5kgs.

Bingo. I do believe I stated that in this thread already. I think some of you train and then write down even the smallest increase as a great accomplishment.

That would mean that over the same amount of time, someone pushing harder will probably make more progress even though your “log” shows that you have improved by the speific weight lifted, the overall increase over the same amount of time may actually be less. I credit HIT with thinking much the same way.

This is the point where others claim that they are training hard and that the reason they haven’t actually grown much is due to a whole host of excuses.

But hey, at least you and others are stopping people from the horrible act of saying, “let’s go up to 4 plates a side”.

Dear God, please let this thread die.[/quote]

bump

99

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Modi wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Andrew Dixon wrote:

Its much harder to up a rep than to go up 0.5kgs.

Bingo. I do believe I stated that in this thread already. I think some of you train and then write down even the smallest increase as a great accomplishment.

That would mean that over the same amount of time, someone pushing harder will probably make more progress even though your “log” shows that you have improved by the speific weight lifted, the overall increase over the same amount of time may actually be less. I credit HIT with thinking much the same way.

This is the point where others claim that they are training hard and that the reason they haven’t actually grown much is due to a whole host of excuses.

But hey, at least you and others are stopping people from the horrible act of saying, “let’s go up to 4 plates a side”.

Dear God, please let this thread die.

bump[/quote]

I was struggling to go from pressing 99lbs dumbbells for 8 reps to the next available dumbbell which was 104.5lbs for 8 reps. The jump was too big and I could only manage a couple of reps.

I got my own dumbbells and made up some 100.1’lbs - 8 reps. The next week I made up 101.2’s 8 reps. I managed to add each week until I got to 110 lbs for 8 reps.

I know its not super high numbers, but I was happy with the result.

Could there have been another way to achieve the same result? Probably.

100

I guess if theres no such thing as stupid questions, then theres no such thing as stupid answers, or stupid arguments…
I bench 315.
That’s nothing, I bench 3 plates on each side…
what ho? I bench 3 quarters on each side plus 6 dimes on each side.
Beat that.
well I bench ya motha