[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]Yogi wrote:
can you really get an extra 400lbs out of a bench shirt???[/quote]
Idk, this at least put things into context a bit for someone unfamiliar with gear
Vid blew me away first time I saw it. It’s insane to me that 4 plates just floats like that. Love the “you drive an F-1 car differently than your mom’s minivan” line.[/quote]
actually makes me like powerlifting even less!
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
People downplaying the dramatic effects of PROPERLY using AAS are as retarded as those who believe they are LITERALLY magic. I personally find the former camp worse since they are usually people who know better and are lying, while the latter are typically simply ignorant.
Perfect example is the whole Bostin Loyd abortion on the interwebz. Sure taking in 12g of AAS/week is not what the average pro is doing to get where they are, but at the same time it surely isn’t predominately hard work and only just a tiny bit of AAS. Blast & cruising with 3g+/week + a buttload of HGH and Insulin for 5-10+ years will turn ANYONE (who is serious!) into a MONSTER. Yes, the chances that they will be the next Ed Coan or placing well at the Mr Olympics are very slim (genetics card), but monsters they will be nonetheless.
[/quote]
Agreed. There are a couple of posters here who claim natty status but defend juicing tooth and nail at every available opportunity. Also a couple of guys who claim they’re on trt (at above trt doses) but tell everyone they’re natural and downplay the drugs when called out. Personally give two shits if someone’s juicing, just don’t give out advice as if the same rules apply to natty’s. It’s irresponsible at best.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
People downplaying the dramatic effects of PROPERLY using AAS are as retarded as those who believe they are LITERALLY magic. I personally find the former camp worse since they are usually people who know better and are lying, while the latter are typically simply ignorant.
Perfect example is the whole Bostin Loyd abortion on the interwebz. Sure taking in 12g of AAS/week is not what the average pro is doing to get where they are, but at the same time it surely isn’t predominately hard work and only just a tiny bit of AAS. Blast & cruising with 3g+/week + a buttload of HGH and Insulin for 5-10+ years will turn ANYONE (who is serious!) into a MONSTER. Yes, the chances that they will be the next Ed Coan or placing well at the Mr Olympics are very slim (genetics card), but monsters they will be nonetheless.
[/quote]
Agreed. There are a couple of posters here who claim natty status but defend juicing tooth and nail at every available opportunity. Also a couple of guys who claim they’re on trt (at above trt doses) but tell everyone they’re natural and downplay the drugs when called out. Personally give two shits if someone’s juicing, just don’t give out advice as if the same rules apply to natty’s. It’s irresponsible at best.
[/quote]
From what I remember the few studies done larger than TRT doses showed substantially better gains in sedentary people juicing than in naturals who trained.
There was a thread on here that discussed a study on steroids where they came to the conclusion that even if the individual did nothing in the form of exercise they still experienced some positive physical benefits
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
There was a thread on here that discussed a study on steroids where they came to the conclusion that even if the individual did nothing in the form of exercise they still experienced some positive physical benefits[/quote]
I’ve seen that study referenced a few times, but I don’t buy it.
I - and I’m sure many others on this site - have seen guys use steroids, train half assed, eat like shit and get nothing out of their cycle.
As a guy who is on TRT…I will steadfastly defend the idea that I should be bunched in with the same guys who are taking test (for example) in supra maximal doses.
In fact all my lifts have dropped since doing trt renegade style (due to injury). I didnt go on TRT for the gym I wanted to have better quality of life. I truly believe the gym gains have been slight at best.
Edit … Now the better energy and mood certainly helped gains in the gym. But if I ever do a cycle of whatever I would hope and would think the results would be superior to gains while on trt
Lyle McDonald cited a study showing that gains were greater in people who did steroids and didn’t train vs those who were natural and trained. That speaks volumes I think.
[quote]1000rippedbuff wrote:
Lyle McDonald cited a study showing that gains were greater in people who did steroids and didn’t train vs those who were natural and trained. That speaks volumes I think.[/quote]
Someone should tell all those bodybuilder dudes to save their money!
edit to add: sorry, didn’t mean to exclude the powerlifters training their asses off, then using a little assistance to try to get to the next level -save your money bros!
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
People downplaying the dramatic effects of PROPERLY using AAS are as retarded as those who believe they are LITERALLY magic. I personally find the former camp worse since they are usually people who know better and are lying, while the latter are typically simply ignorant.
Perfect example is the whole Bostin Loyd abortion on the interwebz. Sure taking in 12g of AAS/week is not what the average pro is doing to get where they are, but at the same time it surely isn’t predominately hard work and only just a tiny bit of AAS. Blast & cruising with 3g+/week + a buttload of HGH and Insulin for 5-10+ years will turn ANYONE (who is serious!) into a MONSTER. Yes, the chances that they will be the next Ed Coan or placing well at the Mr Olympics are very slim (genetics card), but monsters they will be nonetheless.
[/quote]
Agreed. There are a couple of posters here who claim natty status but defend juicing tooth and nail at every available opportunity. Also a couple of guys who claim they’re on trt (at above trt doses) but tell everyone they’re natural and downplay the drugs when called out. Personally give two shits if someone’s juicing, just don’t give out advice as if the same rules apply to natty’s. It’s irresponsible at best.
[/quote]
What is wrong with a natty defending juicing?
What is wrong with someone juicing giving advice to natties if he has built most of his foundation naturally?
[quote]dt79 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
People downplaying the dramatic effects of PROPERLY using AAS are as retarded as those who believe they are LITERALLY magic. I personally find the former camp worse since they are usually people who know better and are lying, while the latter are typically simply ignorant.
Perfect example is the whole Bostin Loyd abortion on the interwebz. Sure taking in 12g of AAS/week is not what the average pro is doing to get where they are, but at the same time it surely isn’t predominately hard work and only just a tiny bit of AAS. Blast & cruising with 3g+/week + a buttload of HGH and Insulin for 5-10+ years will turn ANYONE (who is serious!) into a MONSTER. Yes, the chances that they will be the next Ed Coan or placing well at the Mr Olympics are very slim (genetics card), but monsters they will be nonetheless.
[/quote]
Agreed. There are a couple of posters here who claim natty status but defend juicing tooth and nail at every available opportunity. Also a couple of guys who claim they’re on trt (at above trt doses) but tell everyone they’re natural and downplay the drugs when called out. Personally give two shits if someone’s juicing, just don’t give out advice as if the same rules apply to natty’s. It’s irresponsible at best.
[/quote]
What is wrong with a natty defending juicing?
What is wrong with someone juicing giving advice to natties if he has built most of his foundation naturally?
[/quote]
Absolutely nothing. But pretending to be natural and claiming it was your hard work when in reality it was your good drugs is lame. And, I’m talking about people who’ve made minimal natural progress who get “on” then start throwing around advice as if they were natural. There’s quite a bit of that.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]dt79 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
People downplaying the dramatic effects of PROPERLY using AAS are as retarded as those who believe they are LITERALLY magic. I personally find the former camp worse since they are usually people who know better and are lying, while the latter are typically simply ignorant.
Perfect example is the whole Bostin Loyd abortion on the interwebz. Sure taking in 12g of AAS/week is not what the average pro is doing to get where they are, but at the same time it surely isn’t predominately hard work and only just a tiny bit of AAS. Blast & cruising with 3g+/week + a buttload of HGH and Insulin for 5-10+ years will turn ANYONE (who is serious!) into a MONSTER. Yes, the chances that they will be the next Ed Coan or placing well at the Mr Olympics are very slim (genetics card), but monsters they will be nonetheless.
[/quote]
Agreed. There are a couple of posters here who claim natty status but defend juicing tooth and nail at every available opportunity. Also a couple of guys who claim they’re on trt (at above trt doses) but tell everyone they’re natural and downplay the drugs when called out. Personally give two shits if someone’s juicing, just don’t give out advice as if the same rules apply to natty’s. It’s irresponsible at best.
[/quote]
What is wrong with a natty defending juicing?
What is wrong with someone juicing giving advice to natties if he has built most of his foundation naturally?
[/quote]
Absolutely nothing. But pretending to be natural and claiming it was your hard work when in reality it was your good drugs is lame. And, I’m talking about people who’ve made minimal natural progress who get “on” then start throwing around advice as if they were natural. There’s quite a bit of that.
[/quote]
Gotcha. Agreed, that’s fucked up.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]dt79 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
People downplaying the dramatic effects of PROPERLY using AAS are as retarded as those who believe they are LITERALLY magic. I personally find the former camp worse since they are usually people who know better and are lying, while the latter are typically simply ignorant.
Perfect example is the whole Bostin Loyd abortion on the interwebz. Sure taking in 12g of AAS/week is not what the average pro is doing to get where they are, but at the same time it surely isn’t predominately hard work and only just a tiny bit of AAS. Blast & cruising with 3g+/week + a buttload of HGH and Insulin for 5-10+ years will turn ANYONE (who is serious!) into a MONSTER. Yes, the chances that they will be the next Ed Coan or placing well at the Mr Olympics are very slim (genetics card), but monsters they will be nonetheless.
[/quote]
Agreed. There are a couple of posters here who claim natty status but defend juicing tooth and nail at every available opportunity. Also a couple of guys who claim they’re on trt (at above trt doses) but tell everyone they’re natural and downplay the drugs when called out. Personally give two shits if someone’s juicing, just don’t give out advice as if the same rules apply to natty’s. It’s irresponsible at best.
[/quote]
What is wrong with a natty defending juicing?
What is wrong with someone juicing giving advice to natties if he has built most of his foundation naturally?
[/quote]
Absolutely nothing. But pretending to be natural and claiming it was your hard work when in reality it was your good drugs is lame. And, I’m talking about people who’ve made minimal natural progress who get “on” then start throwing around advice as if they were natural. There’s quite a bit of that.
[/quote]
I’ve got a buddy like that. Made moderate progress from 2.5 years of lifting naturally then got on the juice. Now he posts shirtless selfies and “progress updates” all over social media and hands out advice like its candy on Halloween. All the while he doesn’t know the first thing about programming and downplays the role of drugs in his literally immediate strength and size gains.
I never understood why people would care who was on which drugs or who was a “fake natty” until I got to see this silliness first hand.
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
People downplaying the dramatic effects of PROPERLY using AAS are as retarded as those who believe they are LITERALLY magic. I personally find the former camp worse since they are usually people who know better and are lying, while the latter are typically simply ignorant.
Perfect example is the whole Bostin Loyd abortion on the interwebz. Sure taking in 12g of AAS/week is not what the average pro is doing to get where they are, but at the same time it surely isn’t predominately hard work and only just a tiny bit of AAS. Blast & cruising with 3g+/week + a buttload of HGH and Insulin for 5-10+ years will turn ANYONE (who is serious!) into a MONSTER. Yes, the chances that they will be the next Ed Coan or placing well at the Mr Olympics are very slim (genetics card), but monsters they will be nonetheless.
[/quote]
THIS!
[quote]TrevorLPT wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]dt79 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
People downplaying the dramatic effects of PROPERLY using AAS are as retarded as those who believe they are LITERALLY magic. I personally find the former camp worse since they are usually people who know better and are lying, while the latter are typically simply ignorant.
Perfect example is the whole Bostin Loyd abortion on the interwebz. Sure taking in 12g of AAS/week is not what the average pro is doing to get where they are, but at the same time it surely isn’t predominately hard work and only just a tiny bit of AAS. Blast & cruising with 3g+/week + a buttload of HGH and Insulin for 5-10+ years will turn ANYONE (who is serious!) into a MONSTER. Yes, the chances that they will be the next Ed Coan or placing well at the Mr Olympics are very slim (genetics card), but monsters they will be nonetheless.
[/quote]
Agreed. There are a couple of posters here who claim natty status but defend juicing tooth and nail at every available opportunity. Also a couple of guys who claim they’re on trt (at above trt doses) but tell everyone they’re natural and downplay the drugs when called out. Personally give two shits if someone’s juicing, just don’t give out advice as if the same rules apply to natty’s. It’s irresponsible at best.
[/quote]
What is wrong with a natty defending juicing?
What is wrong with someone juicing giving advice to natties if he has built most of his foundation naturally?
[/quote]
Absolutely nothing. But pretending to be natural and claiming it was your hard work when in reality it was your good drugs is lame. And, I’m talking about people who’ve made minimal natural progress who get “on” then start throwing around advice as if they were natural. There’s quite a bit of that.
[/quote]
I’ve got a buddy like that. Made moderate progress from 2.5 years of lifting naturally then got on the juice. Now he posts shirtless selfies and “progress updates” all over social media and hands out advice like its candy on Halloween. All the while he doesn’t know the first thing about programming and downplays the role of drugs in his literally immediate strength and size gains.
I never understood why people would care who was on which drugs or who was a “fake natty” until I got to see this silliness first hand. [/quote]
That’s exactly it and I’ve seen this over and over myself over the years. A sure a guy who uses may still need to work hard, but I think he’s got a lot more room for error than someone who is natural. If Lyle’s study is true, then a guy who is on may not need to do anything correctly and look amazing. If he goes and tells a new kid who’s natural how to train he’ll likely get nothing out of it.
[quote]1000rippedbuff wrote:
[quote]TrevorLPT wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]dt79 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
People downplaying the dramatic effects of PROPERLY using AAS are as retarded as those who believe they are LITERALLY magic. I personally find the former camp worse since they are usually people who know better and are lying, while the latter are typically simply ignorant.
Perfect example is the whole Bostin Loyd abortion on the interwebz. Sure taking in 12g of AAS/week is not what the average pro is doing to get where they are, but at the same time it surely isn’t predominately hard work and only just a tiny bit of AAS. Blast & cruising with 3g+/week + a buttload of HGH and Insulin for 5-10+ years will turn ANYONE (who is serious!) into a MONSTER. Yes, the chances that they will be the next Ed Coan or placing well at the Mr Olympics are very slim (genetics card), but monsters they will be nonetheless.
[/quote]
Agreed. There are a couple of posters here who claim natty status but defend juicing tooth and nail at every available opportunity. Also a couple of guys who claim they’re on trt (at above trt doses) but tell everyone they’re natural and downplay the drugs when called out. Personally give two shits if someone’s juicing, just don’t give out advice as if the same rules apply to natty’s. It’s irresponsible at best.
[/quote]
What is wrong with a natty defending juicing?
What is wrong with someone juicing giving advice to natties if he has built most of his foundation naturally?
[/quote]
Absolutely nothing. But pretending to be natural and claiming it was your hard work when in reality it was your good drugs is lame. And, I’m talking about people who’ve made minimal natural progress who get “on” then start throwing around advice as if they were natural. There’s quite a bit of that.
[/quote]
I’ve got a buddy like that. Made moderate progress from 2.5 years of lifting naturally then got on the juice. Now he posts shirtless selfies and “progress updates” all over social media and hands out advice like its candy on Halloween. All the while he doesn’t know the first thing about programming and downplays the role of drugs in his literally immediate strength and size gains.
I never understood why people would care who was on which drugs or who was a “fake natty” until I got to see this silliness first hand. [/quote]
That’s exactly it and I’ve seen this over and over myself over the years. A sure a guy who uses may still need to work hard, but I think he’s got a lot more room for error than someone who is natural. If Lyle’s study is true, then a guy who is on may not need to do anything correctly and look amazing. If he goes and tells a new kid who’s natural how to train he’ll likely get nothing out of it.
[/quote]
Have you read “Lyle’s study”?
[quote]1000rippedbuff wrote:
That’s exactly it and I’ve seen this over and over myself over the years. A sure a guy who uses may still need to work hard, but I think he’s got a lot more room for error than someone who is natural. If Lyle’s study is true, then a guy who is on may not need to do anything correctly and look amazing. If he goes and tells a new kid who’s natural how to train he’ll likely get nothing out of it.
[/quote]
“may need to work hard”? “Guy who is on may not need to do anything correctly and look amazing”??
Buddy, you really have no clue.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]dt79 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
People downplaying the dramatic effects of PROPERLY using AAS are as retarded as those who believe they are LITERALLY magic. I personally find the former camp worse since they are usually people who know better and are lying, while the latter are typically simply ignorant.
Perfect example is the whole Bostin Loyd abortion on the interwebz. Sure taking in 12g of AAS/week is not what the average pro is doing to get where they are, but at the same time it surely isn’t predominately hard work and only just a tiny bit of AAS. Blast & cruising with 3g+/week + a buttload of HGH and Insulin for 5-10+ years will turn ANYONE (who is serious!) into a MONSTER. Yes, the chances that they will be the next Ed Coan or placing well at the Mr Olympics are very slim (genetics card), but monsters they will be nonetheless.
[/quote]
Agreed. There are a couple of posters here who claim natty status but defend juicing tooth and nail at every available opportunity. Also a couple of guys who claim they’re on trt (at above trt doses) but tell everyone they’re natural and downplay the drugs when called out. Personally give two shits if someone’s juicing, just don’t give out advice as if the same rules apply to natty’s. It’s irresponsible at best.
[/quote]
What is wrong with a natty defending juicing?
What is wrong with someone juicing giving advice to natties if he has built most of his foundation naturally?
[/quote]
Absolutely nothing. But pretending to be natural and claiming it was your hard work when in reality it was your good drugs is lame. And, I’m talking about people who’ve made minimal natural progress who get “on” then start throwing around advice as if they were natural. There’s quite a bit of that.
[/quote]
So you want people to admit to illegal things? You expect that of people?
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]1000rippedbuff wrote:
That’s exactly it and I’ve seen this over and over myself over the years. A sure a guy who uses may still need to work hard, but I think he’s got a lot more room for error than someone who is natural. If Lyle’s study is true, then a guy who is on may not need to do anything correctly and look amazing. If he goes and tells a new kid who’s natural how to train he’ll likely get nothing out of it.
[/quote]
“may need to work hard”? “Guy who is on may not need to do anything correctly and look amazing”??
Buddy, you really have no clue.[/quote]
Dear jeezus please go actually look at the study. And not the abstract and not what someone else says is in it. Learn to read for yourself and form your own opinions…hopefully they will be better then juice and sitting on the couch is better than being a natty and training hard.
There are so many things wrong witht that I have no idea where to begin
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]1000rippedbuff wrote:
That’s exactly it and I’ve seen this over and over myself over the years. A sure a guy who uses may still need to work hard, but I think he’s got a lot more room for error than someone who is natural. If Lyle’s study is true, then a guy who is on may not need to do anything correctly and look amazing. If he goes and tells a new kid who’s natural how to train he’ll likely get nothing out of it.
[/quote]
“may need to work hard”? “Guy who is on may not need to do anything correctly and look amazing”??
Buddy, you really have no clue.[/quote]
Dear jeezus please go actually look at the study. And not the abstract and not what someone else says is in it. Learn to read for yourself and form your own opinions…hopefully they will be better then juice and sitting on the couch is better than being a natty and training hard.
There are so many things wrong witht that I have no idea where to begin [/quote]
At the same time, you and Greg should actually read what that guy said before said statement (“a guy who uses may still need to work hard, but I think he’s got a lot more room for error than someone who is natural.”) which is right on the money.
Don’t be pedantic.
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]1000rippedbuff wrote:
That’s exactly it and I’ve seen this over and over myself over the years. A sure a guy who uses may still need to work hard, but I think he’s got a lot more room for error than someone who is natural. If Lyle’s study is true, then a guy who is on may not need to do anything correctly and look amazing. If he goes and tells a new kid who’s natural how to train he’ll likely get nothing out of it.
[/quote]
“may need to work hard”? “Guy who is on may not need to do anything correctly and look amazing”??
Buddy, you really have no clue.[/quote]
Dear jeezus please go actually look at the study. And not the abstract and not what someone else says is in it. Learn to read for yourself and form your own opinions…hopefully they will be better then juice and sitting on the couch is better than being a natty and training hard.
There are so many things wrong witht that I have no idea where to begin [/quote]
At the same time, you and Greg should actually read what that guy said before said statement (“a guy who uses may still need to work hard, but I think he’s got a lot more room for error than someone who is natural.”) which is right on the money.
Don’t be pedantic.[/quote]
It’s not really “right on the money” though.
Someone using definitely needs to work hard, just like someone who isn’t using. The “more room for error” part is legit but that depends on the person, what drugs they’re taking and how good (not bunk or “watered down”) the drugs are.
This whole gym endevour is highly individual. If you have enough gym friends I’m sure you know guys who are natty who don’t do all the correct things and still look amazing. Then you probably also know guys who take “lots” (relative term I know) of PED’s and still don’t look as good as a lot of naturals.
It all depends… But I would say that the “more room for error” part is mostly correct but the “more” part is probably vastly overestimated.