Considering for the 1st Time

Well said BBB, Sxio I admire your honesty, most of us wasted years of precious training time trying to follow pro bodybuilders routines when we were starting out, myself included.
There was a very interesting article on hear recently called ‘how tall guys get jacked’ I can attest that training for tall lanky people is different, I’m 6.2 and have always been crap at pretty much everything in the strength department except dead lifting, I could dead lift 390lbs in under 1 year of training the lift but lower back problems have pretty much forced me to stop doing that exercise (my main lower body exercise is the belt squat now) as a 6.2 ectomorph who weighed 150lb’s at 19 years old and couldn’t even do one press up when I began training i feel that me gaining 50lb’s naturally over 6 years isn’t some thing to be ashamed of, it’s certainly not my greatest achievement and I would liked to have done more, but we have to (and can only) work with what we have got right?

I actually believe that mesomorphs who are athletically orientated are no good at giving advice to people like me (they were the people I originally went to as I wanted to be like them) because they have never had to start form where I started (lucky them) like Dave Tate says, if you want to teach someone to squat 800, you better have squatted 800, if your a lanky ectomorph who wants to bulk up then a 6.4 ectomorph who’s done what you want to do is a good person to seek advice from, the captin of the football team never had to do what you wanted to do so how can he put himself in your place?

perhaps it is partly my fault, I never played any sport and ate such a piss poor diet when I was young I had a vitamin deficiency when i was 13, so maybe some of it is self inflicted. Anyone under about 6ft (as stated in ‘how tall guys get jacked’ ) will be able to gain differently to guys over that, I tried for years to make deep barbell squats work for me, and they just didn’t and don’t (and I’m flexible enough to over head squat in bare feet) I’m not looking for sympathy, but lets ask for some pics and a testimonial form some one who went from a 6ft plus ectomorph at 150lbs to a 250lb powerhouse naturally in less tha 10 years because I don’t know anyone who’s done that.

I have a friend who is about 5.10ft, 31 years old, who was a champion skier and boxer in his teens and early 20’s, he now only lifts weights.
He has benched 150kg’s naturally, and recently began a cycle (after about a 6 month layoff from the weights (he’s quite lazy now) of 100mg test prop eod and 8iu gh eod, in 3 months he dead lifted 260kg benched 190kg and squatted 200kg, and can also do one armed pull ups with either arm, how would you all respond if I came on here saying… anyone taking more juice than this, who has been training longer, is not training hard enough or properly if they cant do what he can. It’s obvious he is an athletically gifted mesomorph (and that boxing training teaches you to work hard,and I’ve seen him train, and he does train bloody hard) but at the other end of the spectrum are your lanky ectomorphs, and my point here is that people like him, and people like me are at polar opposites pretty much, but as my dear old mum say’s…“if we were all the same the world would be a boring place”

Hey Bushi. I too hear what you’re saying, but you do sound very convinced that you’re not meant to be strong. Don’t you think that’s influencing your training in some way?

I haven’t progressed as fast as some other dudes, but I continue to get stronger. I can’t foresee a day when I’m not. Yes I’m not built like a natural. I was always great at endurance sports and crap at power sports, but I’ve never admitted to anyone that I might be a hard gainer. That’s only going to hold me back. I’m progressing at my own rate and I’m going to own it. Still be nice to progress faster however. That’s why I’m here.

Thanks Samgold but it takes very little honesty to admit to things on the internet. Noone here knows me personally so I’m not worried about being judged. So what if some guy with good genetics says that my progress has been bad? It’s just an opinion. The haters can think what they like. I have no time in my life for that energy.

I’ve found that squats made my arse get bigger but did little for my legs. I still do them, but more as a mental exercise than in the expectation of crazy growth. I hear you on the bad diet front. Even now I can get in a routine where I don’t eat because I just don’t feel hungry. I find it quite tough to consistently get a meal every 3 hrs but that’s where the protein shakes come in.

At the end of the day, if you’re overloading your muscles, they have to adapt. That’s something that works for all of us. And if someone wants to put you down, it says more about their mindset than anything else. I worry about the man in the mirror. Everyone else can worry about themselves.

[quote]Sxio wrote:
I hear you on the bad diet front. Even now I can get in a routine where I don’t eat because I just don’t feel hungry. I find it quite tough to consistently get a meal every 3 hrs but that’s where the protein shakes come in.
[/quote]

There’s no excuse for this.

^ to reiterate, i have considered myself a hardgainer all my life. Skinny lanky kid of the skinnyest skinny kid ever - like seriously, you could see my ribs up until i was 18/19 (the drugs and student budget didn’t help :D)

For me the hardgainer label is a GOOD thing. It tells me i need to eat TWICE as much as the next guy to get the same results. And guess what? This is EXACTLY what i do. I have a fear, a constant one, that if i let up on the calories even momentarily, then my body will start to break down (and it generally does). This spurs me to eat like a mother fucker - it doesn’t make me give up.

It’s like the ghetto kid in the class who either accepts his parents don’t have the resources to put him through college, or realises he has to work twice as hard as the next kid to prove himself and winds up becoming president of the united states of gaymerica and nobel laureate FTW.

Knowing (or rather “thinking”) that i’m a hard gainer HELPS my bulking pursuit - if when i do have bulking pursuits (althoug i’m trying to stay within a weight class these day).

And honestly, having read some of your responses, i’m starting to side with the guise on here who are labelling your efforts over the last 10 years as pathetic.

I spent 3 months on a bulk over the summer, in preperation for my first steroid cycle, and i honestly can’t remember a single meal i enjoyed in that time. I woke up in the morning full and shovelled down breakfast. Forced down my midmonring snack. Ate lunch with a bucket next to me incase i threw up (i never did, i’m not stupid, i wouldn’t go to that extreme). Same deal the whole rest of the day - chow chow chow. It wasn’t pleasant, but i DID it.

Shit pays dividends yo. Paid da kost to be da boss.

(actually, your 95kg bench press for four aint that bad, that’s about what i can do, maybe a teeny bit more, but then strength training will never be my focus, max strength interferes with my speed strength and strength endurance which more of my focus with weights as per my MMA training).

I was going to leave this, but seeing as it’s been “opened up” again, I’ll clarify what I was saying ealier.

I am amazed with this thread. If anyone else had posted here with these piss poor stats and NO CYCLE PLAN, they would have been ripped to shreds. Being a member for longer leaves the OP with even less of an excuse.

Regarding the lifts. My “60kg deadlift after 20 years of training” example is of course an extreme to illustrate a point. The point being, there is general expectation for 10 years (ok…5 years “real”) training.
Not necessarily in terms of max lifts (not everyone is great at this), but maybe “strength for 10+ reps” or size or whatever.

I consider that there is something seriously wrong if you can only bench 95kg for 4 reps after 10 fucking years. This may not be due to lack of effort IN THE GYM ITSELF, but following it up with the lifestyle, day after day, year after year, takes a hell of a lot of commitment.

Fine, some people will be “naturally” weaker than others, but we’re still going to be noramlly distributed.

Is Sxio unlucky enough to be in the bottom 1-2%? Is anyone who persues strength training going to be at the shitty end of the curve? I highly doubt it. Most of us are somewhere in that nice chucky lump in the middle, and it’s dedication and consistency that separates us.

I suspect shit like…

[quote]Sxio wrote:
I hear you on the bad diet front. Even now I can get in a routine where I don’t eat because I just don’t feel hungry. I find it quite tough to consistently get a meal every 3 hrs but that’s where the protein shakes come in.[/quote]

Is a MUCH larger factor than any cop-out “ecto” or “hardgainer” labels.

I am one of the strong(er) guys because I have been in the gym consistently almost every night of my life for the past few years, almost rupturing organs and forcing myself to set a PR, no matter how small, every time I train, and following it up with decent eating and planning.

Almost every person I speak to with a “I just can’t gain no matter what I do” attitude is seriously missing the point, somewhere along the line. I have yet to meet ANYONE who consistently does everything that needs to be done, and still cannot gain.

Sxio, I am not just being an arse, I really do not think AAS will pay off for you right now with your current attitude and lifestyle. Sort your diet and your training until you are gaining (decently) again, then reconsider. I am not being elitist, I am just highlighting the fact that AAS are NOT a free ride, and if you can find excuses to not progress whilst “off”, then you will still find them whilst “on”. Just my opinion.

[quote]Dave_ wrote:
I was going to leave this, but seeing as it’s been “opened up” again, I’ll clarify what I was saying ealier.

I am amazed with this thread. If anyone else had posted here with these piss poor stats and NO CYCLE PLAN, they would have been ripped to shreds. Being a member for longer leaves the OP with even less of an excuse.

Regarding the lifts. My “60kg deadlift after 20 years of training” example is of course an extreme to illustrate a point. The point being, there is general expectation for 10 years (ok…5 years “real”) training.
Not necessarily in terms of max lifts (not everyone is great at this), but maybe “strength for 10+ reps” or size or whatever.

I consider that there is something seriously wrong if you can only bench 95kg for 4 reps after 10 fucking years. This may not be due to lack of effort IN THE GYM ITSELF, but following it up with the lifestyle, day after day, year after year, takes a hell of a lot of commitment.

Fine, some people will be “naturally” weaker than others, but we’re still going to be noramlly distributed.

Is Sxio unlucky enough to be in the bottom 1-2%? Is anyone who persues strength training going to be at the shitty end of the curve? I highly doubt it. Most of us are somewhere in that nice chucky lump in the middle, and it’s dedication and consistency that separates us.

I suspect shit like…
Sxio wrote:
I hear you on the bad diet front. Even now I can get in a routine where I don’t eat because I just don’t feel hungry. I find it quite tough to consistently get a meal every 3 hrs but that’s where the protein shakes come in.

Is a MUCH larger factor than any cop-out “ecto” or “hardgainer” labels.

I am one of the strong(er) guys because I have been in the gym consistently almost every night of my life for the past few years, almost rupturing organs and forcing myself to set a PR, no matter how small, every time I train, and following it up with decent eating and planning.

Almost every person I speak to with a “I just can’t gain no matter what I do” attitude is seriously missing the point, somewhere along the line. I have yet to meet ANYONE who consistently does everything that needs to be done, and still cannot gain.

Sxio, I am not just being an arse, I really do not think AAS will pay off for you right now with your current attitude and lifestyle. Sort your diet and your training until you are gaining (decently) again, then reconsider. I am not being elitist, I am just highlighting the fact that AAS are NOT a free ride, and if you can find excuses to not progress whilst “off”, then you will still find them whilst “on”. Just my opinion.

[/quote]

Winnar.

edit -

Good luck in the future, Sxio.

Comprehension is really lacking for some of you. Just because I said I CAN get by on 3 squares a day doesn’t mean I do.

I eat at least every 4hrs, protein with every meal. Average meal is protein with veges. Protein and carbs before and after a training session. Why low carbs? Because I personally think fat people are unhealthy. I have abs and I wish to keep them.

WHERE did I say I wasn’t making progress? A few times I’ve stated that I’m consistently making progress. All I stated was that others have progressed faster. Because I knew that would be pointed out to me by fellow t-nationers. But after the 10th time I’m getting quite sick of it being repeated. I fucking know already! The important thing is I am gaining!

And still we have people crapping on about 10 years of HARD consistent training. Did you all have trainers from when you started? Well lucky for you because I had flex magazine and that’s about it. I was fucking around for years, eating fuck all and training 6 times a week for over an hour + MMA 3 times a week for 2 hrs. I was ripped but puny. I’ve already stated that I only consider the last 4 or 5years of training to be effective. This has all been said before.

Dave you especially. Where the fuck did I say “I can’t gain no matter what I do”? Sorry for having some attitude now but I’ve only just gotten back from my leg workout. I finished it off with 2 sets of leg press with 380kg for 15 reps. That maxed out the machine. It literally cannot go heavier.

Does anyone seriously think those weight lifted themselves?

So to sum up. I don’t give a shit where the fuck others think I fit in the scheme of things. I am getting stronger. I am getting fitter. I just was looking for advice on how to accelerate my gains.

In my book, if you’re gaining and you’re enjoying training, you’re set for a good life. How the fuck could anyone on a website such as this one have a problem with that? If you’re stronger good for you. I hope you continue getting stronger. I would never put anyone down for not being where I think they should. I would help them get to my level and then surpass it. I’d be a pretty lousy trainer if I thought differently.

For everyone else, thank you for the advice.

Do you plan to drastically increase your carb intake while on cycle?

Do you just eat low carbs because it’s one way to prevent fat gain or do you actually gain a ton of fat compared to muscle when you eat a ‘normal’ amount of carbs?

So are you going to cycle or not?

This thread is starting to get a little ridiculous.

That’s a good question bonez. And the answer is yes. Big time. I usually make a big pot of spaghetti sauce on the weekends and freeze it in portions to have through out the week. Whilst on, I’m going to have it with pasta at least once a day, probably twice.

To be honest, I don’t know if I gain a ton of fat or not, it’s just an easy to way to maintain a low % of bodyfat and I’ve been doing for so long it’s become 2nd nature to me.

I’m not carb phobic at all, I just keep it all in check during the week so I don’t have to worry on weekends. When I go on though, it’s going to be big food, all the time and lots of training.

Maybe you want to work on your own comprehension. The very last paragraph of my post was addressed specifically to you. The foreword was tackling the overwhelming attitute from others regarding various reasons why it’s ok to suck.

I don’t actually give a shit if you cycle, go nuts. I was simply a little gobsmacked at others’ reactions to your situation. I think you’ll find what I said to you in my closing paragraph was actually very good advice. Still, you won’t realise that until you cycle and find that you STILL SUCK, because you haven’t looked deeper into why you are barely progressing.

[quote]Sxio wrote:
That’s a good question bonez. And the answer is yes. Big time. I usually make a big pot of spaghetti sauce on the weekends and freeze it in portions to have through out the week. Whilst on, I’m going to have it with pasta at least once a day, probably twice.

To be honest, I don’t know if I gain a ton of fat or not, it’s just an easy to way to maintain a low % of bodyfat and I’ve been doing for so long it’s become 2nd nature to me.

I’m not carb phobic at all, I just keep it all in check during the week so I don’t have to worry on weekends. When I go on though, it’s going to be big food, all the time and lots of training. [/quote]

So you really think that using steroids is the answer even though you haven’t given PROPER mass building diet and training a fair shot naturally?

Something is off with your whole approach to this, I think. But good luck

Where do you get Var in Aus ?

This is a 14 year old post my friend

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since I’d never been in here it started me at the top.

I’m thinking of what I would tell this person if we were having this conversation in person.

I don’t recognize any of the names replying and notice why. :laughing:

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