Considering for the 1st Time

Pharma
21

[quote]Sxio wrote:
Hi everyone. I’m considering trying a course of steroids.

I’m 29 years old. I’ve been training for over 10 years. I’m an ectomorph, I’m 6’4". When I started I was about 72kgs. I’m now 96kgs at around 15% bodyfat. I wouldn’t say my results have been spectacular, but I have consistently gotten stronger over the years.

I can bench press my bodyweight for 4 reps, I can do 12 pull ups with a pause at the top and a controlled eccentric, I can deadlift 1.25x BW for 6reps.
[/quote]

Sounds like you have already made you mind up to do a cycle…

That being said, I have to question that you have been training for over 10 years. The reason I bring this up, is in my opinion anabolics should not be used as a lazy way to get bigger and stronger. It is a waste.

You have been training 10 years and can only bench your body weight 4 times and even worse, deadlift 1.25 your BW by 6? Everyone’s strength levels and abilities are different…but these numbers are pathetic. It shows me that you have put in LITTLE hard work and effort these last 10 years.

By all means take anabolics, but learn to train with some effort first.

22

Yes, yes, everyone’s amazing on the internet.

I don’t really care what you think of my numbers. I’m not lifting for you. And the funny thing is, less than 1% of gym goers even deadlift these days, so I think it’s pretty damn funny that in that 1%, people care. We should all be backslapping each other for having the balls to lift.

But if you must know, my actual deadlift ability is much higher, but I tend to get a sore lower back when I push it too much. So i’m careful with deadlifts.

You don’t know anything about me or my goals so how do you arrive at the result that I don’t train with effort? No weight lifts itself mate.

23

All right mate. Since you are in the land of OZ, certain ancillary drugs can be hard to come by. e.g AI such as anastrozole. Try to stay away from those stan anabolic stuff, or most stanazolol injectables. Those “stana” are the major cause of infections in Australia. Trenbolone is not suitable nor cost effective for your goal. 500mg of long ester test maybe a bit too much for you. I have a keen eye on fellow juicers, since I enhance myself once in a while too.

The increase in blood pressure/vascularity is quite noticeable from a distance. Since summer is looming around the corner, I can definitely tell a few guys is on test/dbol (reddish appearance from high BP, and bloated face), or boldenone/stanazolol (freaky spider veins on the chest and shoulder).

I would suggest a test-prop cycle instead. veterinary grade test prop are widely available in Australia, so shouldn’t be a problem to get it. If you can get you hand on some AI, I would run test prop and Anastrozole keep estrogen down. Nolvadex /tamoxifen should be widely available, you can use it for PCT. Those yellow 10mg dbols are mostly smuggled out of Thailand, usually they are pretty good.

sample cycle

week 1-6 to 8

test prop 50mg ED
dbol 10mg ED (optional)
anavar 20mg ED (optional)
0.25-0.5 mg anastrozole EOD

PCT nolva 40/40/20/20

Focus on your diet, and increase your training frequency a bit. You can get some nice body recomp from this cycle. So at the end of the cycle, you may still weigh in at 96kg, and maybe carry only 10% body fat. With the lower dosage, high BP is unlikely to be an issue, and water retention would be minimal. So no one is gonna come up to you and accuse you of juicing.

IF AI is not available to you, you can also do an oral only cycle (not optimal obviously).or use even lower dosages of testosterone.

sample cycle

week 1-6
dbol 10mg ED or 20-25 mg ED with 10mg nolva per day
standard PCT
or no PCT if you can’t get SERMs

this is a absolutely barebone cycle, you can’t get any simpler than this. Sure, not the best thing to do. But you will gain strength and size at a steady pace. Not much bloat either even without AI or SERM, if you stick with lower dosage. Most people can tolerate 10mg of dbol everyday without any serm, minimal bloat and back pump. IF available, Anavar would be a welcome addition @ 20-40mg per day.

if you are willing to spend a bit more money, then the following cycle is also a good compromise, without AI.

week 1-10
250mg testoviron per week
week 1-11
dbol 10mg ED
anavar 20mg ED (optional)
nolva 10ED
week 12-15
standard PCT

dbol and test create a nice synergistic effect. IME low dosage of dbol produces a nice steady gain in LBM and strength over long period of time without any significant side effect. 10mg of dbol or 20mg of anavar is not going to hammer your liver or HDL that much, even for 12 weeks. But if you take 50mg of stanazolol ED, that’s another story.

24

Just want to add. the 2on-2off protocol maybe suitable for you.
IME I usually start to pack on the size (intramuscular water) on day 10, but since i am going to discontinue the injectable on day 10 and oral on day 13. I can manage to stay under the radar from fellow juicers. Because you can get that effect by carb loading too. I am usually up by 2-3kg by the end of weeks 2.

BTW, I am sure there are bigger and stronger all-natty guys in your gym. So i don’t think anyone is gonna accuse you , if you gain a few kg of muscle over Christmas. For all they know, you could have attended a cross-fit semiar or westside seminar or whatever and found some new tricks up your sleeves, and train your ass of over Christmas. You are a professional personal trainer after all, aye?

As for bigger chest, I think you may have to ditch the regular bench, and go for dumbbells if you are not already doing so. pec activation is not the best on the regular bench, for a guy that’s 6’4 and long arms don’t you think? as for sore back from deads, rack deads from mid shin could be a better alternative.

25

mephistopheles for the win.

Excellent posts.

27

[quote]Sxio wrote:
Yes, yes, everyone’s amazing on the internet.

I don’t really care what you think of my numbers. I’m not lifting for you. And the funny thing is, less than 1% of gym goers even deadlift these days, so I think it’s pretty damn funny that in that 1%, people care. We should all be backslapping each other for having the balls to lift.

But if you must know, my actual deadlift ability is much higher, but I tend to get a sore lower back when I push it too much. So i’m careful with deadlifts.

You don’t know anything about me or my goals so how do you arrive at the result that I don’t train with effort? No weight lifts itself mate. [/quote]

It was not my intention to attack you. I never suspected that you lifted for me or anyone else, and you are correct I do not know anything about you or your goals. So I apologize for taking shots about your work ethic or the numbers you perform. This being the internet where everyones lifting numbers are epic, it is a breath of fresh air that you were honest about your own lifting numbers.

While I will never commend someone for simply lifting, in my opinion exercise should be a part of everyones life no matter the circumstance. I digress, good luck with your first cycle and my it help you achieve your goals.

Cheers

28

Well said BBB.

29

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Some people just are not meant to be strong. Personally I am fast twitch dominant (I can deadlift BW for 20 reps, but my 1RM is barely 2 x BW).
[/quote]

You seem to know your shit from what I have seen you type…maybe I am confused but wouldn’t that mean you more slow twitch dominant?

30

bushidobadboy wrote:
Some people just are not meant to be strong. Personally I am fast twitch dominant (I can deadlift BW for 20 reps, but my 1RM is barely 2 x BW).

you got me confused a bit too. I think you are slow twitch dominant? Most fast twitch dominant guy can probably deadlift 2x BW without chemical assistance. Also, i think the CNS efficiency and tendon strength plays a big part on strength too. If the tendons and ligaments are weak, then the body will automatically inhibit excessive force production. And if such person get on some 30mg dbol for a first cycle, then bam strength goes way up in a couple of weeks, and there goes the pec tear.

I have witness plenty of that happening. On the other hand, most super strong dude can bench 220@16 yo untrained. Their tendons and ligaments can endure the beating with constant heavy training, and chemical assistance.

32

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
ERROR!!!

Yes guys you are completely right. I know what I meant to type (slow twitch dominant, lol) but somehow that got turned through 180 degrees on it way to the keyboard.

Thanks for the catch :slight_smile:

BBB[/quote]

join the club…pound for pound i am a total wuss…but i look good doing it! Seriously i was NEVER strong even at 300lbs, pound for pound i basically suck in the strength department.

33

[quote]morepain wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
ERROR!!!

Yes guys you are completely right. I know what I meant to type (slow twitch dominant, lol) but somehow that got turned through 180 degrees on it way to the keyboard.

Thanks for the catch :slight_smile:

BBB

join the club…pound for pound i am a total wuss…but i look good doing it! Seriously i was NEVER strong even at 300lbs, pound for pound i basically suck in the strength department.
[/quote]

Yeah but, i bet you look good naked. That’s all that really matters, whut.

34

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
EDIT: Oh and f*ck the naysayers who scoff at your numbers. Some people just are not meant to be strong. Personally I am fast twitch dominant (I can deadlift BW for 20 reps, but my 1RM is barely 2 x BW). I will never be strong. That is not a limiting belief; is is a realistic appraisal of the facts.[/quote]

Come on now BBB, thinking this way (whilst it may be true) is going to limit the vast majority of people. As lovely as Sxio may be, those numbers are pretty shocking for 10 years spent on training.

Sxio - If you simply want to look a bit better and run a cycle for the hell of it, then great. But don’t be fooled into thinking a single cycle (even less so a 6-8 week one) is going to give you a “big chest” etc. It sounds like the cons outweigh the pros for you with your current mindset.

Also - I doubt this needs to be said, but AAS will only accelerate your gains. Nothing is free. If you’ve been stuck at your current stats for a while, then don’t expect to get far beyond these on cycle, never mind after your PCT.

I hope I have been constructive here, and not a dickface.

35

I’ve never seen so many allegedly epic lifters (or epic as$holes) as I have on this forum.

Sxio, if you have been training for strength and mass these past 10 years, and your results are as stated, you just may not have strength in your cards. Or your training is lacking severely, but I don’t think either is the case. So don’t take any offense from the elitist comments.

The only time I would blast someone for not being strong is if they truly WANT to be strong and are just giving it a girl-scout effort.

For your purposes I think a test-only cycle would be fine. There are some good protocols in the stickies. I don’t think your clients will really get suspicious unless you blow up by 20 lbs. It is very possible to run a test-only cycle and keep weight gain under dramatic levels. You have the trainer credibility so just tell them you’ve turned it up quite a bit and are really pushing yourself to a new level. Cite a specific program or diet.

36

Hey guys. Thanks for all the comments. I’m surprised actually that it’s being going so well.

Basically, I’m the underwear model guy all the big dudes hate. Chicks tell me how great my physique is. Of course, I feel small because I go to this website and only see photos of pro’s.

My history is that I was always the tall, lanky, no athletic ability guy as a young un. However, I refuse to mentally put myself in a hardgainer or whatever category as that’s just gonna limit me. But I also don’t look at other’s results. I only want to get better than myself. As long as I’m making progress, I’m happy. Not satisfied, but happy.

I said I’ve been training for 10 years… it’s true but for the 1st 5 years I was completely wasting my time. No set was less than 12 reps. I barely ate a thing. I mean I was ripped, but I was weak. I knew nothing. I was also doing martial arts 3x a week. On top of training 5 times a day. The only guys I learnt from were others who had no clue, and the trainers who conform to what most of us think of personal trainers. Training on bad advice with non-ideal genetics is an express train to nowhere. But I did learn to enjoy the training process. Now I believe that the journey is more important than the destination. Every session makes me stronger. Every session more completely realises my will to improve. And that’s cool.

Plus I believe that because I’ve done everything wrong, it makes me a better trainer as I found out the hard way what doesn’t work. 40 sets workouts with your 20rm on arms, does not give you bigger arms. It does give you awesome veins though if your bodyfat is low enough.

It does piss me off to look at photos of Arnold when he was 19 though. He looked amazing. I looked like Brad Pitt in fight club. I don’t think many guys REALLY want to look like that. I definitely didn’t want it.

Now that I’ve had my training together for about the last 5 years, I’ve gotten consistently stronger and bigger. And I’m happy with that. So far. But I want more. But definitely, I’m an ecto. I don’t have great genetics for benching a house. So I was fucking stoked to get 95kgs for 4 reps last week. That’s damn heavy. Maybe not for Dave Tate or 80% of the guys on this site before they were 18 but for a guy who remembers benching 10kgs on each side, and getting stuck at the bottom, I’m happy.

Besides… I’ll always be good looking :stuck_out_tongue:

Thanks for the help. Keep it coming. Even the douchebags helped me. I got some good laughs. And it helps to keep me grounded. Not everyone can be a fan. I wouldn’t want everyone to be one.

37

[quote]Sxio wrote:
Thanks for the help. Keep it coming. [/quote]

Okay, this will make me sound like a douchebag [again], but…

You came on here, and posted what you can get your hands on, with no proposed cycle. People gave you cycle ideas and now you’re asking for more?

I think at this point you should come up with a cycle outline and let the people on here tweak it, not expect us to make a cycle for you. People get paid to do that.

That said, I’m not trying to be a dick, I just think you should be a little more proactive in this.

39

I completely understand what you’re saying BBB, people have different apititudes. However… where do you draw the line (if one needs to be drawn)? If a person claimed something like a 1RM of a 60kg deadlift after 20 years of training (assuming no major health issues), then I think something needs to be addressed.

If Sxio simply wants to cycle for the hell of it, that’s something I understand. I simply wanted to make sure he wasn’t expecting too much out of a single cycle in terms of strength or size gains, given his current level.