Good day, I’m reaching out to people that have more experience using the conjugate method of training.
I read in Jim Wendlers explanation of the program that if you are not completing 3-5 lifts at or above 90 percent you are not doing the program justice. For me to set a PR I find taking a set around 80% leaves more energy in the tank for my PR attempt but I’m guessing what you are going for is a PR within the confines of the system where training is paramount. What I’m asking is the general work up strategy to peak weights for a successful conjugate program on a weekly basis.
Different people have done it differently, but here goes-
The Westside literature is going to say that you need to make three lifts in the 90-100%+ range based on Prilepin’s chart. There’s some caveats on this, but I’ll get there afterward. Let’s take a 500-lb wide stance box squat.
You need to make an attempt around 450, 500, and maybe 505 or 510. Anything under 40% (225 in meathead math) is warmup. So take the bar out for a couple of sets of 5-10 just to get warmed up. Then add a plate and do a set of 5. Add a plate and do a set of 3. Add a plate and do a set of 3. You’re at 315 now or 60% +/-. Add a quarter and do a set of 3. Go to the next plate (405) and do a set of 2. Add a quarter and hit a single (455). Go to a plate and hit a single (495). Add a 5 and hit a PR for 505. Then you’re done with your main movement.
There are various iterations out there including backing off to 80% and hitting a set of 5-8 to get some volume in, but that’s after you’ve hit the PR attempt.
Caveat 1- It is a PR for the day. The main aim of ME training is to learn to strain. If you’re suboptimal, you might strain pretty hard at 90% and need to call it a day on the ME work then.
Caveat 2- These need to be rotated at a frequency of at least every 3 weeks.
Caveat 3- It’s all working in scale. When I do ME work for OH press, I move up by 10’s. You need to find the balance between taking too many jumps and burning up excess energy on suboptimal work and taking too large a jump and missing.
Caveat 4- If you hit a PR and still have more in the tank, don’t feel like you need to hit another PR attempt. Back to the 500-lb squat… let’s say you hit that 505 and you’re able to get it with relative ease. Some folks will say you need to walk away and some folks will say put another 5-10 lbs on it. It’s up to you, but that strength will be there when you get back to this variation. If you’re getting noob gains and going up quick, it might be worth it. It also might be worth moving on and getting into your accessory work after coming out ahead. I have a hard time with this personally, but it’s something that gets said an awful lot.
As a rule of thumb, big jumps are ok to about 60% and hit triples for anything under 80%. You can also do ME work at triples which is advisable for good mornings. For a good morning, you’d just keep working up in triples until you hit a balls out triple. There’s a lot of good info at elitefts on conjugate method.
I’ve read several of Louie’s books and have probably listened to days worth of his lectures and I always learn something from him, but I find Dave Tate and others’ presentation on the method to be more straightforward at times.
I’ve found Dave Tates literature much easier to read then Louie’s and went through the periodization bible and much of Matt ladewskis writings and Clint Dardens stuff. Nothing against Louie just my personality lines up better with those guys then Louies extreme reference guide teachings so it’s easier for me to grasp what they’re saying(I get lost reading the references he makes to where the information was taken from and miss the main points he is trying to make). The older I get the more the conjugate method makes sense to me and the importance of auto regulation. Like Dave Tate said at the latest LTT summit. " I knew every exit on the way to the gym by heart and had to make my training so I could convince myself to go in at times"(paraphrase).
Joe Brian Alsruhe has a video on how to set up conjugate system. And he also has a program called darkhorse I’ll be running soon. I currently run conjugate however I use 3 rm instead of 1 rm. darkhorse program he has you do waves of 5,3,1 rm
Edit
Also I warm up very similar to what pook outlined
Specificity is what it’s all about. Since Brian is a strongman competitor, it makes complete sense for him to do conjugate in different rep ranges because he has to do reps for events. Is his program free or paid? I’d love to see what kind of progress you make with this.
He has 2 conjugate based programs free but offers paid programs as well. They’re pretty easy to fin ok the web. I’m doing free versions first. I have a log here it’s only 3 weeks old but it’s natty in the natural state. I’ll keep posting there and also will post when I start the new variation as well.
I made great progress with his Darkhorse program. A 90lb Squat increase and 60lb deadlift. It’s a solid program that you need to make sure you have the recovery ability for.
@marcb84- I’ll be checking it out. Thanks! I’ve been thinking about how to run a conjugate setup for strongman and from what I can find in 5 minutes of google searching, this looks like a much more refined, informed, and better version of what I was thinking of.
@losthog- That’s a really good question. I know he runs giant sets A LOT. Working offshore, I could probably only run his program while I’m at home to get the rest I need.
Yeah it’s what he says he runs and you can simply adjust accessory work to fit your needs. I wish I had the equipment to do some strong man work for something different but I don’t. Aside from heavy carries press variations and B.B. deads. Awesome and good look man!!
Are you guys using the Builders and Testers when you do ME stuff?
Like you rotate through your “builders” then every 8 or 10 weeks you max on your “tester” to make sure your stronger and that its working.
This worked well for me. It helped stay on track, trying to use the Builders to improve the Testers, on a schedule. Otherwise, I could get lost in the weeds, doing ME lifts that didn’t really build on eachother or like, work together.
Regarding Caveat 4: Take the 5 pound PR or make bigger jumps. I did best making the small 5 pound PRs for Builders, to stay on track. Non-hyped, not going to the limit, saving a little for next time style.
Then shooting for bigger, exciting Records on the Testers. The gratifying 40 - 50 pound PRs.
A mistake I made was making a big gain on Test week, then returning to the Builder rotation and trying to hit multiple PRs or 20 pound records for multiple weeks. This derailed my progress pretty quickly.
In all honesty, I’m not sure what I’ll do until I hit the gym for ME work a lot of the time. I know if it’s upper or lower, but I’ll just think about different variations and figure out which ones I haven’t done in a while. It’s suboptimal, but it’s more likely to get me into the gym if I don’t have to think about what I’ve got to do ahead of time.
I won’t say it works… but I keep training. I probably need to spend some time going back through builders and testers so I can be at least a bit more intentional.
There is some really great info in this thread. I’ll add to what @FlatsFarmer is saying about rotations every 6-9 weeks.
Figure out what your weaknesses are on the main lifts…where do you fail? Struggle? What part of form needs improvement? And use the variation lifts to fix those issues. Have a rotation of 3-5 exercises per lift to work into 3 week rotations if just starting conjugate method. As you advance that will work down to 1 week rotations.
Accessories should also support the weak areas. And bam hit the big test weeks. Find the new weakness and work from there
I am not familiar with conjugate, but I ran Brian Alsruhes Darkhorse this summer. For those who doesn’t know his avatar on TN is @Alpha and he has a log here Alpha V I think it is.
His website i neversate and he has a youtube channel as well.
He has put out 4 free programs: linear progression, Conjugate, Darkhorse (Kind of a conjugate), and a powerbuilder program.
The Darkhorse was very kind to me on the lowerbody not so much upper.
It is very brutal, but you’ll get used to it.
He has borrowed a bit from here and there.
Like Jim he has 5, 3, and 1 rep days, but not the same reprange for each lift.
He builds up for a topset of a squat variation, say 5RM box squat then do back of with the same variation. All lifts a giant setted like boxjump/squat/Leg raise/strongman stuff or conditioning .He then moves on to 10 minutes emom 3 reps on comp deadlift setup with bands NOT giant setted.
Then assistance is free (on lowerbody I rarely had energy for assistance)
Deadlift day was deadlift variation giant set, squat emom
Bench day was bench variation giant set, OHP emom
OHP variation and Bench emom.
It’s 3 weeks one variation, 3 weeks another, 3 weeks a third variation. (this is not explained it was what I did and a couple of other guys here on TN)
1 week deload and 2 weeks of testing 1RM on the 4 big lifts.
I can highly recommend it, coming from Jims work it was something completely different and then not.
Look up the videos on his youtube channel it’s great fun
link to the Darkhorse is here:
I’m planning to run this so thanks for insight. So you’re saying you ran the same variation of each lift for each 3 week wave then you switched it? Did you plan on what lifts to progress to? Like shorter range lifts (block pulls) early in and. Full range (reverse band deads) later? Using on 3 variations for whole program is interesting but makes sense. Since your waves are 5,3,1 RM waves on all.
Do you know about what you re tested at during testing weeks? Or rather gains you made?
